Romantic love can be portrayed as either complicated or simple, I lean towards simple descriptions / explanations of LOVE, but certainly not relationships...


Maintaining a domestic relationship is partly related to (the things of) Love, partly related to more IRL/ nuts-and-bolts kinda stuff like finances, child raising, careers, where to live, etc.

Ideally, attitudes, priorities, goals & methods can be flexible & accommodating about 'everything', but often aren't IRL.

Mormonism's focus is on the Ceremony of a temple wedding (sealing for converts & those unable to for various reasons).

I'm glad my first wife & I didn't get married in Temple at first (she was preggers), we did get a chance to learn that we liked each other (long-distance friendship/romance) before we were sealed (abt a yr later).

Mormonism, despite repeated Family Values claims, tends to under-cut long-term relationships now, because ppl (generally) don't live long lives fitting into cookie-cutter molds as before. I don't see how mormonism could ever adapt to the current family-partnership view of relationships / paradigm.

Love (to me anyway) in a Christian context includes Kindness, Honesty, altruism, Repentance & Forgiving; Love in the LDS scene is shaped around Obedience.

Also, the perfectionist syndrome that I frequently reference here is a severe handicap when one partner becomes Holier-than-thou, which MoMism does Nothing to discourage (at least in my experience).

Go Ahead, KICK ME; I believe in Love :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2015 02:19AM by GNPE.

it was a beautiful few months, we were going to be married, he was Mormon, his family made him leave me, it was a wonderful dream while it lasted

Heart breaking... Montague and Capulets. Do you want to share with the class? Have you had a Sig. Other?

Mormonism means "conditional love", in a perverted and selfish kind of way.

"Also, the perfectionist syndrome that I frequently reference here is a severe handicap when one partner becomes Holier-than-thou, which MoMism does Nothing to discourage (at least in my experience)."

This is an interesting point.


I've seen this happen in both mormon and non-mormon couples, where one partner becomes insufferably self-righteous, acts superior to the other partner and never fails to point out the failings of the other partner. But it's interesting, mormon culture does seem to support the self-righteous holier-than-thou partner while outside mormon culture in our every-day secular world it is the insufferable one that goes unsupported. Hmmm.

As far as love goes, however, this kind of dynamic is beside the point. People can be absolutely head-over-heals in love with one another and still act insufferably towards one another.

Human

I certainly agree that (most) Mormons don't seem to appreciate long-term relationships. They frequently appear to brush off really getting to know someone before marrying them. In most cases, I would prefer dating someone for at least a year before even thinking about that. I know that circumstances and individuals vary, and people can do what they want with their lives, but it still bothers me.

All relationships are difficult--but romantic ones are especially so. They're even harder when you go into something like building a life and (possibly) a family together with unrealistic expectations--and without really knowing that person as well as you should.

Ideally, someone you marry or enjoy a partnership with would be one of your best friends. They can't be that if you hardly know them.

Mormons aren't taught problem solving in relationships and fall back on passive-aggressive tactics. Women tend to involve the bishop and prophet/GAs, Jesus as back-up to force their husband to change what they think needs changing. That is a very crowded disaster destined to implode or explode.

If you are both aware of the luggage and expectations you bring to a relationship, and are willing to make adjustments, it is more likely to evolve into a relationship where both people thrive. Kindness, patience, and laughter are imperative.

Working toward common goals or rewards-trips... keeps couples on the same page, and helps keep romance alive. There is a good Ted Talk about relationships/romance where the speaker indicates people are proudest of/attracted the most while watching their partner thriving in their element, field, or talent-not being clingy/needy/dependent. (Age/illness... requires drawing on reserves of positive memories...)

I vote yes for romance, mixed with common sense, reality, and a big dose of humor. =)

Did I say that out loud?

Sister: I couldn't have said it Better!

When are/were you most attracted to your partner or former partner? What trait catches your attention over others? (Besides the obvious physical eye candy...)

with me, (or so I'd like to think) it's Attitude.

I totally understand how the LDS model works, ensnares ppl, ignores lots of important relationship essentials.
Also, she was (is?) a Very Attractive woman, red hair, slender, etc.

I'll Totally Admit I fell into the LDS patriarchal paradigm, man earner, wife SAHM, etc.

Communication Skills.


I'm a romantic person, I think (pure) love enhances the soul, the senses, and makes the world a better place.

When you're in love, your First Loyalty is to S/O, not to any cause or club.
It makes you vulnerable in ways you Want, It brings you all the way home. It tears you down, then fills you up.

we were both liking you-know-what.

(Did I understand your question correctly?)

If U (ex-sister) want to read my collection of quotes/sayings, pls contact admin, I'll ask them to tell my email.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2015 03:41AM by GNPE.

Why not share a few quotes with the class?

So, you like the little red haired girl. (Peanuts, Charlie Brown =) ) There must be some exmos here who qualify. Alas, I have blonde hair-Danish/English pioneers.

Little red haired girls with an attitude? Or, positive attitude? =) You liked the attitude of your ex because_______? Did the church play a part in the demise? Did the kids take sides? (No need to answer if TMI).

Communication... It seems people forget to take the temperature of the relationship until it is on the death bed, too late to revive. It requires teamwork to win the game, match, race, tournament, marathon, world cup, championship...

One thing I refuse to participate in is when couples criticize each other in public... It's like looking at their dirty laundry. =( It can be sorted out later. If your partner doesn't have your back, who will?

Must walk dog...

Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When are/were you most attracted to your partner
> or former partner? What trait catches your
> attention over others? (Besides the obvious
> physical eye candy...)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We both made slightly sarcastic comments and laughed at each other's jokes.

It was a blind date so fertile ground for the sarcasm and humor.

A blind date that worked out! Fantastic. Exmo or nomo?

I agree with the perfectionism aspect. It isn't even fully perfectionism, as it is expecting everyone to fit your ideal, and that ideal could the Mormon ideal, but doesn't necessarily have to be a Mormon thing. Part of love is accepting people for who they are, despite them not doing things your way all the time. Sometimes it's annoying and sometimes it's a huge clash. Hopefully with a spouse, most of your ideals match and the rest can be ignored or overcome, but you're still allowed to be your own person, not being forced to comply to whatever standard of perfection the other person thinks you should have/do.

My ex was this way. Growing up BIC, he had his ideas of "perfection," and this caused problems. The thing is, I don't think he knew what he wanted. He was very unhappy with himself. I think he expected other people (me) to fill some void and complete the "happiness circle," but that's not going to work until you're happy all by yourself. Whatever level of perfection he tried to accomplish for himself or expected me to accomplish, it didn't work, and this resulted self-loathing, loathing of me, and fights. This is when I think Mormonism itself became a huge factor. He was "Jack" up until then, but you know the Mormon "Plan of happiness" and "the gospel," and since he wasn't living "the gospel" to its fullest, well gosh-golly, that must be it! Of course I wanted nothing to do with it. Further spiral ensued. But as an abuser, the relationship was doomed anyway, to which I put a lot of blame on Mormonism. Mormonism did it's job and divided a family, as it always does. At least one thing is consistent.

Even though you didn't sign up for the future godess plan, it was lurking, waiting to pounce. Did he walk off into the sunset w/his temple clothes on, dragging a new future goddess with him? Kids? More importantly, how did you recover? Have you been super wary, or have you found a significant other?

Love isn’t a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now. - Fred Rogers.

Love is life. If you miss love, you miss life. Leo Buscaglia

Ultimately love is everything M Scott Peck. ~ The Road Less Taken
Let there be love-lasting without ownership. Love belongs to itself, love unregimented, love that doesn’t win, and love that can’t lose. ~Heavenletter #4485
“The quality of a man and woman is how well they take care of each other and inspire one another to be great and loving.” ‪#‎CodeblackLife‬

“Love isn't magical or mystical, it's practical in the way(s) we treat others; it starts with accepting ourselves and others as unique individuals.” (unknown)

“A man sees in the world what he carries in his heart” - GOETHE

“No kind action ever stops with itself. One kind action leads to another. Each good example is followed. A single act of kindness throws our roots in all directions, and the roots spring up and make new trees. The greatest work that kindness does to others is that it makes them kind themselves.” (unknown)

Fear divides, Love Unites.

"Time waits for no man, but true love waits forever” from ‘Forever Young’

“We put reality in our lives by always being Honest; we put Love in our lives by always being Kind-courteous-considerate to others; by Forgiving others and correcting our own mistakes. I hope our lives are filled with those things, everyday!” - anders tron-haukebo (posted on facebook)

"A healthy relationship is one where two independent people make a deal that they will help make the other person the Best version of themselves" (unknown)

“Broken minds can be healed just the way broken bones and broken hearts are healed. While God is at work making those repairs, the rest of us can help by being merciful, nonjudgmental, and kind.” (unless you’re gay, support equal rights, or think women should have the PH….)
Jeffrey Holland, 10/5/2013

Only love is real. Only love is true. (hopefully) All we keep from this life is the love

"Measure each day by Love; first by how much you've Given, then by how much you've Received"

“Those who love each other shall become invincible” Walt Whitman, ‘Over the carnage Rose a Prophetic Voice’

“The greater the love, the greater the tragedy when it’s over. Those two elements always go together.” Nicholas Sparks in Nights to Rodanthe

“The spiritual meaning of love is measured by what it can do. Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.“ Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus

"Nothing is more practical [...] than falling in love in a quite absolute, final way. What you are in love with, what seizes your imagination, will affect everything. It will decide what will get you out of bed in the morning, what you will do with your evenings, how you will spend your weekends, what you read, who you know, what breaks your heart, and what amazes you with joy and gratitude. Fall in love, stay in love and it will decide everything." Pedro Arrupe

To feel the love of people whom we love is a fire that feeds our life. ~Pablo Neruda

“Only love interests me, and I am only in contact with things that revolve around love.” - Marc Chagall

Love doesn’t Hide; it stays and protects. It goes the distance, that’s why love is so strong. It can carry you all the way home. Pietro Aretino

The ones who love you will Never leave you. Even if there are hundreds of reasons to give up, they will find one reason to hold on.

"Love is a nutrient which we all seek, and absorbing more of this healing nutrient into our bodies, minds and hearts brings us closer to our true nature." ~From the UMS course Unconditional Love

"Love is the condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own." - Robert Heinlein

Love is an act of endless forgiveness, a tender look which becomes a habit.; Peter Ustinov (April 16, 1921 – March 28, 2004): (Christian Science Monitor, Dec 9th, 1958)
However it is debased or misinterpreted, love is a redemptive feature. To focus on one individual so that their desires become superior to yours is a very cleansing experience. - Jeanette Winterson

Max Mazadourian Remind yourself to relax your brain and drop it into your heart. When we do, it's like changing the lens on a camera. Thoughts vanish. Our views soften and we have clarity of what is dear to our hearts. –

“Have you ever been in love? Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens up your heart and it means that someone can get inside you and mess you up.”
Neil Gaiman―, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones

Thank you for sharing. Some of those quotes are new to me.

Don't forget Burt Bacharach and Dionne Warwick:
What the world needs now, is love, sweet love...

Music, art, literature... one of the best themes.

What is your wise advice for mending broken hearts/lives for those who knew they had to leave/no longer enable the other in an unhealthy relationship? (The dangerous dance is over...)

please contact me.... PM

or FB: anders tron-haukebo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2015 03:58PM by GNPE.

Will you please explain your nudist club group? The nude volleyball and such? Where does one hike nude w/o accidentally encountering hikers with children? Did you join up after Mormonism?

I'm not a prude by any means, and have no problem with areas designated for nudies, or discreet skinny dipping... I've just been "accosted" by perverts many many times (compelled to show me their junk in public places with lewd suggestions...) Masturbating in the car next to me at the park while looking at me (please, I'm trying to eat my lunch/escape from creeps at work). Is it the shock value, or am I going to be tossed into the van the person is in...? My younger brother and I were nearly kidnapped by a stranger near our home when we were kids. I started filing police reports as an adult after one too many "encounters" with criminal behavior.

I'm sure you're/most nudists are respectable people, without criminal pasts, or intent; I guess I simply don't understand it. Doesn't it bother you if other men are looking at your nude girlfriend? While hiking isn't that just more bare skin for potential sunburn, mosquito bites/poison oak...? Please enlighten those of us who don't quite understand the fascination/lifestyle.

I met him at my job at Thiokol in 1977. He was a chemist and I was the secretary to about 20 scientists and chemists. He said he couldn't date who he worked and I didn't date nonmormons. We finally decided to go on one date. He wanted to show me that all guys weren't jerks like the Mormon guys I had dated. I fell head over heels in love with him the first night. Several months later, he moved away partially to get away from me because I wouldn't marry him. He said he would convert, but not go on a mission. I never got over losing him.

After my marriage to my gay husband failed, I said I'd never date anyone EXCEPT this old boyfriend. Nine years after my husband left me, this guy became available. We started talking--he lived out of state. We've been "together" ever since--over 10 years now. We aren't married and I don't plan on it.