Another thread dealt with the issue of killing a giraffe and hunting generally. Poster "frackenmess" asked why hunting was acceptable to mormons. As a TBM, were you accepting of hunting? Do you now, having disassociated yourself from the faith, possess a contrary view of hunting?

I hunted as a mormon. I hunt as a non-mormon. I don't think my having, at least intellectually, left Mormonism impacted my view on hunting, except that I now, because I'm not convinced of life after death, probably have more reverence/respect for the fact that the existence of one life comes at a cost to another life, even for vegetarians. Hunting helps keep me honest regarding the price another life pays for my existence. I've become less likely to overindulge on meat, but also food generally.

I'm more accepting that some people like to hunt and others don't.

I'm not a hunter, but I know that responsible hunting practices keep species healthy and provide needed food. I've seen rabbits take over a neighborhood by the thousands. I visited there for a weekend and residents had to kick rabbits aside with a heavy foot to use the hiking trails. The same thing can happen with overpopulations of deer or turkeys and other animals. Good planning including hunting helps people and animals alike.

My hunting was never tied to anything religious. I went hunting upland birds with my Dad and then I got into big game hunting and trap shooting after I started working in a local gun shop. And I hunted plenty until my arthritic knees and back put a stop to it. Now I just shoot clay targets. 70,000+ so far. Don't have to clean 'em, don't have to eat 'em! Perfect.

Ron Burr

Not to mention that those sons of bitches clay pigeons deserve it!

Damn right they do!!

RB

I am an avid hunter.

I hunt with a Sinar 4x5 monorail view camera and a Canon T5i digital camera.

Everyone to their own paradigm

My photographic armament is a Sony Alpha A55 with 18-55mm, 70-300mm zooms and a 500mm mirror lens. Not professional grade stuff like I had back in my 35mm days but they do the job.

RB

My view of hunting has not changed.

Neither has my tolerance for hypocrites that will go to the store and buy chicken and steak but then want to claim holier than thou and bash on hunters that kill the animal themselves instead of letting a slaughterhouse do the deed.

I am not a hunter, but not against legal managed hunting.

I ate everything I killed and also have no time for hypocrites, Riverman.

RB

Riverman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My view of hunting has not changed.
>
> Neither has my tolerance for hypocrites that will
> go to the store and buy chicken and steak but then
> want to claim holier than thou and bash on hunters
> that kill the animal themselves instead of letting
> a slaughterhouse do the deed.
>
> I am not a hunter, but not against legal managed
> hunting.

Yeah, sort of the same...
My TBM family were always avid hunters. Deer season was a big deal. As a young teen, I went on the annual deer hunt several times. While plinging bottles and cans with a powerful rifle was kinda fun, I never enjoyed killing animals with it. I stopped going while still a TBM and around 16.

I know that animals have to die for me to eat meat. I know it may be somewhat hypocritical for me to not want to do the actual killing. But there it is...I don't want to do the actual killing. I'm not "against" those who do, though. :)

No, hunting has never bothered me. As long as it is done legally and ethically. Although I am not much of a hunter myself,I have killed far more deer with my car than I have with a rifle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 02:29PM by Whiskeytango.

Hunting has never bothered me, even though I've never actually done any myself even as a Mormon. To me, hunting is fine if people eat the meat from whatever animal they've killed, and that there are some animals such as deer that can become overpopulated without hunting if they don't have natural predators.

My husband hunts. It doesn't bother me. In fact there's a couple of coyotes that have been wandering the neighborhood lately. I wish someone would hunt them.

My views have never changed. I married a hunter and went hunting all the time. Thankfully, he never bagged a buck. After a couple years I learned what it meant to be "a responsible hunter" and seeing all the carnage, tree stands, empty ammo shells, dead doe, one season after another with a muzzleloader, bow hunt, rifle, you name it became my nightmare. There were endless ways of shooting a deer, elk, moose, bear, mountain lion -- it really got to me! And, to see Utah families jump on the bandwagon and teach their children this concept from the Bible; "They have dominion over the Earth and all living creatures" -- Ridiculousness!

So, what does it mean if humanity has dominion over the animals?

If you believe this statement, it could mean you have complete rule over all living creatures to subjugate your power and authority over them. But, I seriously doubt this is what it really means. Go right ahead and keep those Mormon views in your arsenal of knowledge. Perhaps you're right or maybe completely wrong? I tend to think we're suppose to live with nature in harmony and demonstrate appreciation for our surroundings.

As far as my diet goes, I eat meat that swim in the ocean & rivers. Red meat is against my views because of the cost to maintain cattle on BLM land and I hate the destruction they create. Plus, it's been proven red meat is bad for your arteries and over all health and causes morbid obesity. (you can argue this point too, but I really think most people are aware of these facts.)

So, why am I under fire? Because hunting is a tradition and I'm attacking a idea or concept. It sounds all warm & fuzzy to go out with the family and be together slaughtering deer, skinning the carcus on your front lawn and hanging it up to dry. It's a real learning experience for your kids and I'm sure leaves a long lasting imprint on their impressionable minds. "Let's kill Bambi."

I fracking hate hunting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 04:48PM by frackenmess.

You're under fire because your views are hypocritical. Delegating the dirty work to a third party doesn't make you any less culpable, it just makes you feel party.

In other words, if you pay for your meat to be killed, you are just as guilty as though you killed it yourself.

Many hunters enjoy hunting in the sense that it brings them closer to nature and lends them a greater appreciation for their food. Moreover, just because you don't *have* to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Were that the case, we'd probably all be driving anemic 4-door sedans and living in concrete apartments. Thankfully we live in a society that accepts a broad swath of tastes and preferences.

Did you read my post at all?

I don't eat meat.

Most vegetarians consider fish to be meat, so your statement that you "don't meat meat" is an obfuscation at best and rationalization at worst.

Or, alternately, I'm reading your post wrong, and you eat things that swim but that are not fish?

I'm sure the bible does mean it when it says that humans have dominion over the beasts. Its an old book. It says and means a lot of things that have been rethought since.

Hunting,cooking and eating meat is what made us what we are. We'd still be like Gorrillas or Chimps spending 12 hours a day chewing. Hunting is a drive that is part of our species, though obviously not every individual. The perversion isn't hunting , skinning etc. It's Bambi. A deer isn't Bambi. Bambi is a cartoon character. The process of killing preparing and eating game can be a profound activity that connects you to your ancestors and the living world.

In an industrial/ agricultural society it is possible to sustain yourself with out killing or dominating animals including fish and shellfish, but it takes knowledge and the availability of very diverse foods. Your average hunter gatherer couldn't swing it. It is also possible to indulge your own personal sensitivities about eating certain animals and act like it is some kind of moral choice. You could even write it down in your own WOW or Halal or Kosher laws. But its still nothing but your own preferences.

I've changed from "slightly supportive" to "slightly opposed", but I don't really have strong feelings either way. I've never hunted, never caught a fish. I don't like to squish bugs. I have euthanized a pet with a bullet.

Factory farming is questionable, but industrialized meat production could be done humanely; it would take up a lot more space and meat prices would soar, but the animals would live their whole lives in comfort and without fear, and an instantaneous, unexpected death is a good way to go: no prayers to Yahweh followed by a ritual slitting of the throat. What is it with Yahweh followers and throat slitting?

A quick, clean kill by a hunter of an unsuspecting deer isn't terrible. It's better than being torn apart by wolves. Unfortunately, not every kill is quick or clean when hunting. At least a cougar goes for a quick break of the neck; a bad hunter puts a bullet in the side and then, if halfway ethical, chases the animal til it collapses.

If a person just enjoys the hunt, a camera should suffice. If a person hunts to save money on a food bill, I have no problems with that. If the deer population needs to be culled because all the coyotes have been killed, or the coyote population needs to be culled because people have encroached on their territory and the coyotes are knocking over trash cans... humans screwed up and are trying to fix the problem with guns.

If a person spends $10,000 to fly to Africa, has a driver take them to the wilderness and find a lion, a bartender make the drinks for the drive, a gun-bearer clean and load the gun, and then just wiggles a finger to make that majestic animal dead so they can take home a trophy... well, gosh, who could oppose that?

I don't mind hunting as long as there is a level of respect for the animal being hunted and (generally speaking) the animal is used for food consumption. I am opposed to wanton killing just for the sake of killing. To me there should be some sort of purpose involved.

I don't understand rich westerners doing big-game hunting in Africa. I find that disgusting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 07:35PM by summer.

Didn't hunt then, don't hunt now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 11:36PM by wanderingbutnotlost.

I care a lot more about animals in general now then I did when I was TBM. I didn't hunt then and I don't now. I did fish with my grandparents because that is something they loved to do, I haven't fished since leaving Utah. I get some of the reasons for hunting but killing something for no reason or just for kicks? NO.

for aliens with superior technology to hunt you and your family, so long as they ate your children.

No, I know there are laws against hunting females and the young, so just the fathers would be targeted.

An interesting edX free online course from Cornell University on "The Ethics of Eating" just started this week that will spend two weeks investigating this aspect of topic, also including the realities of "animal agriculture" (factory farming).

https://www.edx.org/course/ethics-eating-cornellx-phil1440x

I've become more tolerant of hunting over the years, but I don't think it has much of anything to do with Mormonism. Probably more the realization that when I buy meat at the store an animal still had to die. I couldn't hunt and kill an animal myself, so I can't oppose hunting without being a hypocrite.

I read once where someone asked a vegetarian what he thought of hunting. The vegetarian actually preferred that to people buying meat in the store. At least with hunting the animal is living in its natural environment, and can use its own instincts and skills to evade the hunter. He preferred that to animals living in pens and cages, being fed antibiotics and growth hormones.

The problem I have with Mormons and hunting is the word of wisdom. It says twice not to eat meat. Yet not only are Mormons big meat eaters, in Utah at least hunting seems to be a big Mormon tradition. I haven't been able to find anyone who can give me a decent explanation why Mormons eat meat when the WoW specifically forbids it (twice).

No, my attitude hasn't changed. But then I grew up, and still live, in an area where Mormons are a minority. In High School we got the first day of deer season off, because none of the boys were going to show up anyway. During hunting season, most of the trucks/cars had hunting rifles in them in the school parking lot. And a shotgun in case you saw a pheasant or chukar on the way home.

In fact, I can't remember ever hunting with a Mormon. Or even having one in hunting camp. If they were they didn't mention it and they certainly drank their fair share of coffee in the morning and whiskey at night.

Human beings are hunters. My opinion doesn't matter. I can accept it or reject it and it has no bearing on whether people are going to hunt.