As in an innumerable number of other topics in Mormonism where the church has redefined the meaning of words to the point that others outside the bubble don’t understand how Mormon-speak terms are used, the same has happened with resignation.

The insidiousness of the tact taken by the church of redefining the English language is key in allowing the LDS believer to also redefine and stretch even further the bounds of objectivity with the use of a convolution of words should not be understated IMO.

Look at what has happened to the word ‘agency’, or the term ‘free agency’. It is clear that outside church the view looking inside when that kind of Mormon-speak is used the non-mormon is thinking “I don’t think that word means what you think it means” and the non-mormon is of course correct.

Name removal comes with that insidious little dig that comes with shady possibilities of sin and wrongdoing though not out rightly so in the mind of a member. “So and So had their name removed” or “The bishop asked So and So to have their name removed, ‘gasp’?” does not come with any definition that leads one to think that a previous member resigned and that it was positive voluntary action.

“Name removal” is slightly derogatory as it can be requested by the bishop of the individual and is requested by those cleaning up the records. I remember myself going out and contacting folks and letting them know they could have their ‘name removed’ if they just lend a letter to the bishop asking to do so.

We never asked anyone to resign although it may happen resignation is a positive step taken by the one wanting to disassociate rather than a positive step such as excommunication or asking the disaffected to remove their names. The church does not need or want any positive connotation at all given for resignation. So what to do? Call it something else. In this case a false synonym. We all know the name is never removed. It is annotated.


So Tristan you are right IMO. Unfortunately there is squat we can do about it but see it for what it is which is just another insidious lie to make honest people look bad by the church and another attempt at slamming the screen door on our asses on the way out.

The insidious aspect of "name removal" is that it implies, since only the bishop can initiate the record-changing process, that it requires the bishop's permission or approval.

Too many members who want out word their letter as "Please, sir, I would like to get my name removed, if you don't mind."

Yes, it is a two-step process, and the second is removing the name from the active list:

1. The member resigns. This is done by the member. At this point the person is no longer a member.

2. The church corrects its records, and removes the name from the list of active members.

The quibble by some that "the church never actually removes your name" is unimportant. Of course the church keeps a record of former members, just as a college keeps a list of former students, a business keeps a record of former employees, a periodical keeps a record of former subscribers, the army keeps a record of former soldiers. One cannot get upset that the past cannot be erased.

Nonsense. BYU does not count me as one of its 30,000 or so students. I'm an alumni not a student. Have not set foot on campus since 1991.

Your analogy comparing a religion that counts people who quit as current members with a University that does not count it's alumni as current students fails.

They seem to be quite analogous to me. The university counts you as an alumnus, true, but they still hold your student records, transcripts, etc. Similarly, the church still holds the membership records of deceased, resigned, and excommunicated members, even if they aren't counted as current members. Or are you implying that their reported membership figures count resigned members in the total?

church = gospel

love = obedience

'discretion, discernment' replace facts/information



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 11:06AM by GNPE.

It makes me cringe when I read resignation letters that use the words "please, thank you and request".

I suppose it's good manners to say "please", but to me it sounds like you're pleading or groveling. The thought of "requesting" that they "let me resign" makes me sick. I'm certainly not going to thank them for their ridiculous paperwork rules that require I write to them in the first place. The idea that we HAVE to jump through their hoops or be harassed by them is insane!


I think we need to come up with a way to put a stop to the insanity. If we're writing letters to them, it should be a cease and desist order at best. I could care less about their silly paper work. What I do care about is being harassed by them. What I really want is for them to leave me alone!

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeid=10494

The word "resign" is used. That is the process. That is the word. That is what the LDS Church has NOT argued against! (see this: http://www.mormonnomore.com/legal-precedent )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 11:37AM by moose.

I like some of the language used by the court when describing rights and what can or cannot be done by the church.


The words: Right to unhindered and unimpeded withdraw from chosen form of worship. Are good words to put into a resignation letter.

Also....The moment I communicate i'm withdrawing from membership is the moment i'm no longer a member.----The church apparently needs to be reminded of this, and stop insisting people talk to their bishops first. They're out of line, and could probably be sued for doing that. They're attempting to "deny the right to unhindered unimpeded withdrawl from chosen form of worship." in my opinion.

I would encourage people to use this wording instead of pleading, asking, giving reasons, etc. NONE of that is required or necessary. In fact, it's none of their business why you are withdrawing from membership. We do not owe them an explanation of any kind.

However, they DO owe us the right to withdraw and resign the very moment we communicate it. They have no right to attempt to delay, or with hold that right by telling us we have to go talk to the bishop first.

IMO it's time we state our withdrawl/resignation, and remind them they're not in charge of that in any way. In fact, to impede or withold that request is illegal.

They also need to be reminded that announcing your personal business to a congregation, especially after you've resigned, is a big no no, and they could be sued successfully for that. The are not allowed to publicly humiliate and shame you by blabbing your business to the congregation. I'm thinking this would also apply to their PEC meetings. Again, It's NONE of their business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 12:48PM by madalice.

I dont have a problem with the bishop contacting the person resigning. As long it is only to verify the person sent in the letter and not someone sending it without their knowledge. If the bishop goes anywhere beyond that verification, I have a problem.

And anytime a Bishop contacts someone who resigned, they can calmly confirm the resignation and politely ask for no further contact.

Of course, a good alternative I've read about here is a garden hose, if contact is in person.

;^)

this is why you send a notarized letter.

Special definitions and hidden or secret meanings are a method of isolation. When in relation to a cult, just plain evil.

When I went to my Bishop to ask him why the church discriminated against blacks for most of its history, why it maintained the most racist scriptures in the world and why JS claimed other men's wives as his own, instead of answering my sincere questions, the SOB threatened me with excommunication if I ever breathed a word of my doubts to other Mormons.
I said, "Even my wife and kids?"
MF'er said, "Especially your wife and kids!"
My resignation was in the mail the next day.
He was shocked when he got it and dropped by to "understand why I would resign". When I told him he told me, "I didn't come here to get into a contentious argument over church doctrine."
I said, "I'm not arguing. You told me you wanted to understand why I was leaving. When I started to explain it to you, you didn't really want to know, you just wanted to prove me wrong. I'm not wrong and you and I both know it. I have no desire to destroy your faith, I just don't want my children being brainwashed with lies, like I was and the 5 generations before me were."
He quickly found the door.

Your story is amazing. Such integrity and courage.

Many churches operate locally. They have a list of members. If members don't show up to church after a certain period of time, the name is removed. They don't hunt down and hound members. There's no "file" for the person, although, there maybe a record of baptism, confirmation, stuff like that. There's no threats of having all your blessings canceled if you leave or join another church. The mormon church is all about control.

next for TSCC:

re-define so 'Speaking as a man', "mislead" and "astray" will cease to exist.

In my resignation letter, I worded it something like this:

"This letter is inform you that I have resigned my membership in the COJCLDS. As I am no longer a member of the COJCLDS, I am directing you to remove my name from your membership records."

No request made, but resignation and "remove my name" both included.

Have you noticed that every organization you have been involved with has it's own in-house language they use? It's how it functions. It's a unique part of how an organization carries on business: sports, school, church, jobs, etc.
Lots of times it's a bunch of initials.
Go get the RTU for the STV... (made that up,but you get the point).
Our lives are filled with these - it's a short-hand that is in constant usage. That is how the Stock Market works also.
Turn on the TV and watch the shows with initials or short hand.

In the case of Mormonism, as well as other religions, they have their own in-house language with words that have specific meanings that may not be known outside the religion.

Of course, there is a lot of "Mormon Speak"!
It's a generational, cultural religion that functions as a religious tribe. (Their language, again -- i.e. 12 tribes of Israel and which ones they came to be adopted into.)

And what do people very often do...when we turn against something or someone or some organization for whatever reason, or in this case the Mormon religion, there is a certain percentage of people that now see everything they do and say is now suspect, wrong, to be hated, disliked, strange, stupid, dumb, needs to be destroyed etc. and on and on. And that includes every single, tiny thing, including words. There is a constant found almost every time this happens: the focus goes to 100% negative on steroids - everything is 1000 times worse than anything else in the whole world: their ideas,food choices,clothes, hair styles, how they talk, their teachings, traditions, literature, buildings, and on and on and on. It's all ugly, nasty, including every single person that ever even thought about being a Mormon. And it must be preached and maintained as the only right true way to deal with the religion. Then what happens? Very often, a negative emotional attachment is developed and the negativity grows and grows and grows until there is an internal sometimes explosive negative reaction to everything.
Also ... we've all seen that this happens very frequently in divorces.
Everything that was loved and held sacred is now hated and must be destroyed.

I find it's just fine for me to use the words and language unique to a specific organization when dealing with them. They know what they mean as the in-house terms are their method of doing business and are likely to be a reliable way of getting things done. Sometimes, however, it doesn't matter. Use acceptable Mormon speak-their terminology for their in-house system, or use a different one. The point is to get the job done.

Resign is more empowering. It's something that I do for myself and my own reasons--not something LDS, Inc. does to me.

It's important to start seeing the world that way when exiting Mormonism.

Removed from the rolls of free-agency, and the ability to think for oneself.

I thought "name removal" was a sneaky reference to Revelation: "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

It absolutely is an attempt to scare people by bringing up images of having their name removed from the book of life. Mormonism is first and foremost a fear-based religion.

Mormons are scared of coffee, fear cryin out loud.

Cupcake licker, I always look for drunk or sober. So funny. Even drunk, you have great things to say.

Thanks! Unfortunately, my new medication doesn't mix well with alcohol, as I discovered last weekend.

Also, I'm properly logged in, so I'm not typing in a screen name. I guess I could change it to reflect my status, but the admins might not appreciate that. On the other hand, it could use an umlaut or two.

Anyone has a 100% right to leave an organization. No need to ask permission. No need to wait unless it's your choice to do so.

Simply resign and be done with it.

The Mormon church is then in charge of whatever paperwork or name issues they have.

No other church I've ever heard of "removes names". People just change churches. Methodists start going to a Baptist Church. Methodists go to a Church of Christ. It's no big deal. Some of my Baptist friends became Catholic. There was no "name removal". They just started going somewhere else.

I've often wondered why exmos and tscc are so hung up on the name removal thing.

I just sent a letter to my bishop asking to be excommunicated.

He sent me a letter back saying, " I see no reason to excommunicate you, but If I don't here back from you, in 30 days, I will remove you from the records of the church"

simple..

Easy peasy..

I don't understand why others have such a hard time with this.

I've often thought that people should insist on excommunication as a way to bog down and demoralize the local leadership. Sometimes I wish I'd gone out with a bang.

I was once excommunicated in absentia.

It would be fun to tell them that I'm going to excommunicate them. Tell the bishop he needs to be at my house at 8pm. for the hearing. Me and some people I choose are going to be asking him some questions to decide if he deserves to be in our presence.

If he shows up I will ask questions about the religion he's a representative for. Are they honest in their dealings with people? What about the money they collect, Why isn't it being turned back into the community it comes from instead of being handed over to SLC so they can build things like malls and buy ranches?

Why did the church lie to me,, and all of my family and friends for over 7 generations now? You know the one, those pesky lies that rolled off of joseph and briggy's tongues like liquid. the Decades of lies about history, who was sleeping with who, who was killing who,

After reading the Ces letter to them, I would make a big deal out of telling them that I'm excommunicating them out of my life. They've already had a second chance, and there will be no more. They are excommunicated once and for all. Then I would have a list of things they can and can't do. Things like they cannot associate with my family in any way. They can go to church, but they cannot try to coerce me to do the same. I could have some great fun with this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2015 08:00AM by madalice.

I don't care what they do or think, as long as they just leave me alone. From my point-of-view, which is the only point-of-view which matters to me, I gave them a very strong "take a hike" message. What they choose to think of that is not my problem.

The Church™, a/k/a the legacy religious division of LD$, Inc. may call itself a "church" for legal reasons but it's a cult. LD$, Inc. controls the flow of money by controlling people. I'd be willing to bet they have a file on everyone who has ever been a member. Excommunication carries social penalties behind the Zion Curtain. You may ask or demand for them to remove your name and they may tell you that they did -- but as no one from the outside can see their records you will never know.

The Church™ always reminds me of the personification of evil depicted in horror films. Once you tell it you no longer believe and that it no longer has any power over you, it's done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2015 08:20AM by anybody.