I have never read the BOM. From where comes the doctrine of the War in Heaven? Is it in the BOM?

None of the unique LDS beliefs are in the BoM. The "war in heaven" came from the PoGP (Moses 4:1-4 & Abraham 3:26) and the D&C (29:36-37 & 75:25-26).

Does anyone know the origin of those PoGP and D&C ideas? Did JS make them up?

It's in the Bible. Revelation 12:7-13

So are there other Christian groups who have the "War in Heaven" included their doctrines?

Most regard it as a vision of the end of time or as a reference to spiritual warfare within the church. Some see it as not literal but symbolic of events on earth.

They do, but they think it was a war between Angels, man hadn't been made yet. Hence Lucifer the fallen angel and the sons of God married the daughters of man, and their offspring were the giants who chased Noah.

Ice giants?

Odin promised to destroy all the ice giants.

No, not ice giants, there are no ice giants.

I know, Odin got rid of them all.

Moses 8:18--18 And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take away his life; but the Lord was with Noah, and the power of the Lord was upon him.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/8.18?lang=eng#17

Dueteronomy 2:20-21:20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

21 A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the Lord destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/2.20?lang=eng#19

Gen 6:4 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/gen/6?lang=eng

The concept of a war in heaven comes from the bible.

Isaiah 14:12 - 20 too long for me to type but the highlights

Verse 12 "how art though fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning
Verse 13 for thou hast said...I will exalt my throne above the stars of God

Also Revelations 12:7-9

"And there was a war in heaven...and the great dragon...called the devil...was cast out...and his angels with him."

Heartless Wrote:
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> ...[Isaiah 14:] 12 "how art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning
> Verse 13 for thou hast said...I will exalt my throne above the stars of God

That verse is a mistranslation in the King James translation. "Lucifer" is meant to translate the Hebrew word for "morning star or day star" The problem is a reliance by the King James translaters on Jerome's Latin version from the 4th century A.D (!).

The only place the word "Lucifer" occurs in the entire Bible is in the King James Version at this passage. Other more modern translations do not have "Lucifer" there (or anywhere at all), but translate the word correctly as "day-star," "star of the morning" or "morning star."

This passage, when read in context, is addressed to the king of Babylon, who was very proud and haughty and surrounded in worldly glory, but who was to be destroyed. "Lucifer" is used in Jerome's Latin (and, following Jerome, in the King James Version) to translate the Hebrew word 'helel', which means "morning star" (i.e., the planet Venus). The Hebrew root 'h-l-l' means "shine" or "boast," so it is probably a taunting pun in the original Isaiah, written in Hebrew. There were two Greek names for the planet, both similar: either 'heos-phoros' meaning "dawn-bringer," or 'phos-phoros' meaning "light-bringer." In the Septuagint (Greek) translation of this passage, probably made in the first or second century B.C., the Hebrew 'helel' was translated with the Greek word 'heos-phoros.' When Jerome translated the Bible into Latin, he used the Septuagint as his source and simply translated the Greek word for Venus into the Latin name of that planet, which is an exact translation of the Greek 'phos-phoros': luci-fer, from the Latin roots 'luc-' "light" and 'fer-' "bring, bear, carry."

It was not until well into the Christian era that the idea arose that "Lucifer" was a name, and that the verse applied to Satan and not to the king of Babylon. It is probably influenced by the (erroneous) assumption that Luke 10:18 (saying that Satan fell as lightning from heaven) is a reference to the Isaiah passage.

So the Isaiah passage has nothing to do with a war in heaven.

The World is a Ghetto.

He drink whiskey, Poncho drink the wine


But when any of the 25 odd members that WAR has had over the years die, they won't go to heaven will they?
They'll probably go to funky town I would think.

Why can't we be friends ...

Try the Ethiopian Book Of Enoch
Also addressed in the Hebrew Book of Enoch

I picture Star Wars when I think of the "War in heaven."

Could it have happened? Sure, why not? Spiritual warfare is nothing new.

Darth Vader was consigned to a Black Hole in an undisclosed location, where he remains in outer darkness, or until another sequel.

Luke Skywalker, the archangel force of good fighting evil, remains so to this day... and so I tell you, if it can happen like that in the movies, then the War in Heaven must be true. ;) (It's art imitating life, imitating art.)

Seriously, though, I believe in spiritual forces of good and evil. How that battle plays out in the heavens is a mystery to me, but some day perhaps all that is invisible to us will be made known. It's an unfathomable Universe we live in. Now science has theories we live in a multi-verse, and that it's growing and expanding at a rapid rate.

https://youtu.be/BW_ku1k2xMI

A 7th Day Adventist member at work gave me a pamphlet. they seem to believe in the same thing about the pre-existence and War in Heaven. It blew my mind.

HailOdin Wrote:
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> A 7th Day Adventist member at work gave me a
> pamphlet. they seem to believe in the same thing
> about the pre-existence and War in Heaven. It blew
> my mind.

__________________

It was a movement that started in New England, and preceded Joe Smith's by just a handful of years. No doubt, he borrowed from that one too, like he borrowed and plagiarized his ideas from other sources.

I figured it was more 'borrowed' material.

Great info, thanks guys!

See John Milton's "Paradise Lost" (1667, 1674):

"At several points in the poem, an Angelic War over Heaven is recounted from different perspectives. Satan's rebellion follows the epic convention of large-scale warfare. The battles between the faithful angels and Satan's forces take place over three days. At the final battle, the Son of God single-handedly defeats the entire legion of angelic rebels and banishes them from Heaven. Following this purge, God creates the World, culminating in his creation of Adam and Eve." (Wikipedia)

which heaven , celestial, terrestrial, or telestial ?

"It's the never ending battle, the forces of Evil versus the forces of Good (that we LD$ Inc elite fully intended to endlessly profit from)"

MORmON PRofit Gordon BS Hinckley to Mike Wallace, Ap 1996 CBS 60 Minutes Segment on the MORmON church.

Of course, the "third of the host of heaven" that revolted did nothing wrong. Agency came about later, so it's not clear why they were punished.

Stupid inconsistent cult.

Great point! I never thought about it but yes, even the endowment session movie, Elohim states when making the physical Adam and Eve something to the effect that,
***"We will allow them to be tempted and tried, to choose for themselves between right and wrong."***
(Sorry its not an exact quote but its been more than a few years since I've been.)

Apparently it is then that the human race receive their agency.

I always thought that the church and the inane stories were juvenile lies.

When the explanation was given about a War in Heaven, it minimized God and made him/ her sound childish and stupid - or like a careless parent floating around, letting his "spirit man children" fight endlessly.

Not a great stage to set for life down on Mother Earth. If men couldn't behave in Heaven, then there would be no improvement on Earth. . . ever.

The story about God punishing the world by flooding it sounded like God was a spoiled brat taking revenge on his disobedient children.

So God drowned (killed) all those people. Then, God also commanded his people to sacrifice (slaughter) their children, in "his" name. Then, God commanded his "men children" to have sex with multiple women, over and over again.

The practice still exists all over the world. All in the name of a God.

It's all a crock of horse manure.

I like the one about our loving father in heaven torturing Jobe with everything imaginable, while taking everything away from him and killing a few of his family to prove to Satan that Jobe would still love him.

WTF

That would be like me torturing and abusing my loving son to prove a point to a neighbor down the street, (who I dislike) that my son loves me.

God is overly concerned what satan thinks of him. He's always in some kind of competition with him and we're the pawns. We're supposed to be codependent to God as he comes up with ways to use us to prove his point to Satan. It's time for God to man up and have his own bad relationship and leave us out of it.

Yeah. Lots of pillows involved. Their guns fired marshmallows and Twinkies.

It has been scientifically proven that the righteous spirits won the War in Heaven because they use steel swords and bows - these same steel swords and bows later given to the Nephites on earth and later taken back into heaven after the Nephites were wiped out.

Doesn't it all make sense now?