Just would like to start off by saying that I have been a lurker on RfM since 2000, first as a TBM, then as a JackMo, finally as an ExMo in 2008 (Prop 8 did it for me). I have always appreciated your candor here even when it rubbed me the wrong way back when I still believed. So Thank You upfront everyone here. Now to my dilemma I need advice on.

I went to BYU in the 90's and was apart of a program which grouped freshman students together in the dorms and we took most of our classes together and went to church together. The ward got very close and I still have very fond memories of most of the people I met then, even the bishop, who was more of the J. Golden Kimball type Mormon, like my TBM father.

I did begin to have severe mental health problems manifest (I'm Bipolar II and came from a dysfunctional family with a history of similar mental issues on my mother's side) towards the end of that school year and the bishop and the guys in my ward that knew of my sickness were very helpful and supportive when I tried to kill myself. I returned to the Y that next fall to a new ward, new bishop and no support group other than my BYU mental health counselor. All of my guy friends were on missions. My depression got worse (the excessive guilt of TSCC teachings along with all the $#!& I got for not going on a mission played a significant part) and I eventually was expelled for my poor academic performance. I asked for amnesty from BYU, but it was denied.

Leaving BYU and Provo turned out to be the best thing for me, even though I was back living with my dysfunctional family at the time. I live outside of Utah so I thankfully had to see a psychiatrist and a cognitive behavioral psychologist that were not Mormon. The psychiatrist flat out told me I would be happier if I left Mormonism because of the excessive guilt problems it caused me. It just took me a while to heal and figure it out for myself. Fast Forward to today and I am married to a great NeverMo wife and can hold down a solid job. I have many intellectual friends from many backgrounds and live in progressive cosmopolitan city. I am very healthy, happy and stable.

For the intervening years, though curious, I never really tried to reestablish contact with my friends, mainly out of shame of my past health issues but partially because I left the church and I was afraid to see that they will still trapped. That all changed recently when I the reunion coordinator contacted me on social media. Two guys that knew of my problems and I still deeply respect subsequently contacted and friended me and were glad to see I was thriving and hoped to see me at the reunion.

I am not sure why but seeing all of my old friends on FB deeply stirred me and I really want to go to this reunion. On FB I have scoured over 30 profiles and so far none of them are openly ExMo, though a couple may be inactive or at least have lukewarm feelings about TSCC. From the publicly accessible parts of my FB profile, it is very apparent I am a proud anti-TSCC atheist. I still love my old friends and would love to see them once again. I can see them as separate from the TSCC. My wife thinks it is a bad idea but supports my decision. She believes that all of my love, gratitude and positive regard for my old friends will be made meaningless because of who I am now and that they cannot see me as anything other than a threat. She believes that no other open ExMo would bother going either. I told her I would not try to push anyone's buttons. If provoked, I would try to laugh it off, unless I felt forced to defend myself in a more straight-forward argumentative manner. I am under no delusion of thinking I can deconvert the TBMs. I am extra hopeful that there will be other ExMos (open or in hiding) to reconnect to.

I have been thinking of Plato's Allegory of the Cave a lot, in the sense that I would be returning from the sunlight to prisoners that may wish me harm. Also I have been thinking about this quote from the movie The Matrix:
"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."-- Morpheus

So, in your wisdom, should I make an effort to go to this reunion? Thank you again!

I would. It sounds like you are in a good place. I'm sure it will be fun to reconnect. Have fun, if you go! :-) It's cool to hear how much you have overcome. I like hearing stories like this.

I wouldn't. You wife loves you and has your back. You will show up at the reunion and be the odd man out, the non-RM who 'had problems' and they may decide that your inability to handle your problems 'cut you off' from ghawd. They won't believe you are in a good place because there is ONLY one good place, nestled in the bosom of the father church. So there's a good chance you'd have to put up with some pitying and general rampant condescension.

Now, if you feel within yourself the capacity for laughingly telling them to go eff themselves if they give you any bullcrap about 'bettering' your life by returning to the gospel of Joseph H. Smith, then go, so you can carry those happy memories for the rest of your life.

They won't listen, but you'll have the memories...

As a stranger to you, the best advice I can give you is, "Listen to your wife!"

Your wife knows you best.

There are people who like reunions, but those are usually the ones who never mentally left the group--you know what I mean. They are still in the same lifestyle, haven't traveled much, and their learning stopped in college. You seem to have continued on in a new life, making new friends, enjoying a successful career. "Live for the moment," I always say.

I would advise you not to go, just because you say that you are bipolar, and have had successful therapy for it. Maybe you should stay in the good place you are in now. Every time I've gone back into the past to family reunions, high school reunions, BYU reunions, I have had an OK time, but afterwards, I have felt quite depressed. Depression isn't good for you.

You can always stay in touch with your real friends, through Christmas cards, e-mail, Facebook, an occasional phone call, etc. That's what I have done. When I resigned from the cult, I lost most of my Mormon friends, and my oldest and dearest friends happen to be not Mormon.

Yikes--even thinking about going back to a BYU function makes me anxious! My husband and I met at BYU, and we went through Provo a few times, on our way to Yellowstone, to show our children the BYU campus. We went to the natural history museum (my same polar-bear friends are still there, that used to dwell in the basement of the biology building) walk around and get an ice cream cone, go to the bookstore, etc. We would go to Sundance, and then to spend a day or two in Midway, then head North. If you do go, take your family with you--although there are neater places to visit.

Your highest priority is to avoid depression at all costs.

I got invited to a 25-year mission reunion, for people who'd "served" 1978-1980 (which is when I was out there).

I'd been out of the church for 30 years, but many years ago had signed up on the mission's web site and left my e-mail address, so I got the invitation.

I decided to go. First, to see "old friends," most of which were OK guys in a rotten 2 years. Second, to just go and be myself, even though the reunion program was completely and thoroughly TBM.

About half of it was enjoyable. I liked seeing these guys after 30 years. I liked catching up on what everyone was doing. I actually rather enjoyed the startled looks and stammering attempts at conversation once I revealed I'd left the church a long, long time ago. And I think I planted a few seeds of doubt and thought among those who were on the fence.

Curiously, my mission president (who was there, but *very* old and quite infirm) was by far the nicest to me, and said several times that it didn't matter if I was out of the church, he was just glad to see me. Perhaps staring death in the face made him realize that TSCC "shunning" was really stupid, and human connections really mattered most.

I'll be honest: parts of it weren't easy. Several times I was *heavily* pressured to "come back to the fold." I think I handled it well, being assertive about facts and honesty without going on a full-blown rant about what bullshit the church is. But if you personally will have a hard time handling those kinds of conversations, you might want to skip it. You know how some mormons can be..

If you want to go, plan a fantastic vacation to the Tetons or Yellowstone, rent a cabin, go fishing, or vacation in an extravagant resort, if that is your idea of a soul-refreshing jaunt.

Go to the reunion in Utah with your wife for a few hours, enjoy yourselves and then head off to a lovely drive through Idaho, Montana or Wyoming to your final vacation destination.

Make an adventure of it! You and your wife can giggle over some of the attendees at the reunion on your drive up North.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2015 05:39PM by Senoritalamanita.

If you go, have a plan "B" for if things don't work out. Perhaps an hour or two might be plenty. Make the rounds, then go off and do something else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2015 01:01AM by summer.

In Mormonism it's every Member a missionary. My guess is that they will try to get you back in the fold and will probably bear their testimonies. No I would not go. But probably that is because I still feel very awkward every time a TBM asks me that I haven't seen in a while what my calling is and which ward I attend now and when I say that I have resigned from the church there is a looong pause. On the other hand it would be probably nice to find out what has happened to some of them.

I really appreciate all your advice! I told my wife I sought your wisdom and after discussing everything, she confided in me that she absolutely does not want to go, as she feels she would be very uncomfortable and unhappy with the whole experience. Also she said if we made it part of an summer road trip, why would we want to go to Provo at all, when there are better places out there?

My wife noticed that I forgot to mention that we do not have kids (let's me just leave it at that it is not in the cards for us though we may adopt in the future). She said that it just adds one more reason why she would be very uncomfortable about going.

She is equally surprised as me that I was obsessing about wanting to go. I rarely wax nostalgic about things from my past. I think talking about it with her and reading your advice helped get it out of my system.

My wife also reminded me of occasion from last year, when she introduced me to a TBM coworker and spouse who knew of my ExMo status. They were very tense around me- even afraid of me, maybe from seeing my FB stuff, but I never even brought TSCC up. The only people I actively argue with are my TBM older brother and parents. Everyone else in my nuclear family has escaped :) My wife says that because of that get together, she can trust me to not go on a ExMo rampage, and to simply brush off any 'return to the fold' pleas. She is however worried about being surrounded by ~100 mob of TBMs she has never met and cannot trust them to behave themselves. I am not afraid to argue with any of them, I studied Mormonism extensively and was even a FAIR/FARMS supporter (sorry, I have some guilt about that) when I first lurked here. I cannot think of anything they can throw at me that I cannot counter (thanks to all of you who came before me) as they don't have any new arguments anyway

I believe you are right about me being seen tainted by the mental illness, not serving with honor, and being currently following the devil, etc. I honestly care little what they think about me, as Richard Feynman is one of my heroes, but this would only serve their confirmation bias more, which I do not want to feed. They are going to assume I drink (ironically which I did when I was TBM because I was miserable, but have been sober since 2002 to manage my BPII), smoke pot (simply because I'm from Colorado, though I never liked it), have no kids because of sterilizing STDs from premarital sex (we're both disease free), and am definitely possessed by the devil (the whole atheist thing). I have been the odd man out my whole life, from growing up a nerd in a ranching community, to feeling alienated at BYU, so it doesn't scare me, but I know it can be emotionally taxing. I finally do have my wife and great friends who accept and love me- weirdness and all, so I don't need to seek any further approval from these guys.

So I have decided that is the most prudent (although more boring) route for me and my wife is to keep them in my past and limit contact through social media. I thought also about simply going alone, but my wife and I are a team. It would have been great to see some of them, but that is a sacrifice I have to make, due to the better path I have chosen. I probably will post in the group message board a brief polite statement about why I will not be attending. I know that if any have doubts or are closet unbelievers, they can seek me out and I will be there for them then.

Thanks again all of you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 01:53AM by santo_atheos.

I attended a reunion that was for all of us kids that grew up in a rural areas in So Utah.

My experience finally put it to bed for me. The past really is the past and it's OK to leave it there. We know what the past was and no need to waste precious future with it.

Here is what I got.

Nothing had changed.

No one left.

Everyone turned into their parents. I even mistook one guy for his father, and was going to do it again when I turned around and almost did it again with another guy.

The talk was all church all the time. Only one gal was different and only because she was constantly apologizing for her husband being gone a lot, making lots of money and for her spending too much time in Maui.

The good thing is there was food and it only lasted a couple hours.

I am glad I went because like I said it ended any future needs to attend such things including any need to ever visit my TBM family in UTAH. For 25 years we always traveled to go to them.

Never again. If we travel, it's to go ride elephants on the opposite side of the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 10:33AM by AmIDarkNow?.

I asked a guy I knew who was a world traveler in his younger days and asked him what would be the important things to go see.

Top of his list?

If you feel healthy enough go Climb Mt. Kilimanjaro before the snow is gone.

Just a suggestion.


Imagine this. "Regrets, I'd love to come but we're headed to Kilimanjaro. Maybe next time".

I figured that it would be impossible given that it is BYU for TSCC not to come up. My step mother is all church all the time. All the exmos in my family just feel sorry for her- wishing she had more in her life.

I wish I could afford Kilimanjaro, it would be fantastic.

Sounds dumb. A student ward reunion? I went to a mission reunion ONCE. That was enough. If you want to go be amused by the stupidity of it all, have at it. Wear a t-shirt emblazoned with cesletter.com

I see that as blatantly picking a fight and that was not the path I wished take if I went. My mouth can get me into enough trouble as it is, no matter what I'm wearing.

I will admit that CESletter.com is one of the top visible things in my likes list on FB, but they have to be curious about me to see it. Brother Jake is up there too, but they probably will think it is a missionary's blog.

Just go but be ready to slip out the back if it is not to your liking.