If you need any insight into how your wife/daughter thinks, it might be helpful to listen to Mormon Stories pods #207,208 Janelle, who has a disaffected husband.

It was revolting. She cried 3/4ths of the interview. She considers him no longer believing in the church her "trial" and included him as being a "trial" for their children also. She is trying to treat him with love since that is what THE SAVIOR would want.

She said all her friends are married to bishops, stake pres, high council... "Good men." She relies on her mission talents to muster onward... It is horrifying.

If you have daughters, they are being molded into this person. Is that the future you want for them? To wreck some other man's life? If you listen to it, let us know your reaction. Thanks.

What's wrong with being a subservient baby factory in a repressive thought control cult? You make living the male fantasy of a 19th century charlatan sound like a bad thing.

My wife at the time and I had both left the church, but here is the important distinction. I had done it because I was sick of religion, its stupid logic / thinking, its LYING and manipulative ways. She had done it because main stream MORmONISM just was not providing enough of a religious delusional charge, and she went into some hyper Y2K MORmON fundamentalism, because mainstream MORmONISM just is not delivering enough MORmON style outrageousness, because she is addicted to religious style thinking. And remember, real Joe Smith style MORmONISM is apocalyptic, it promises that Jesus is going to return very soon, as in right away. By this time, I had zero interest in having any church calling, and especially in any stupid leader ship position. He younger sister's husband was made elder's quorum pres and then bishop. Even though we were both out of "THE" church, she was green with envy. There is a picture of how crazy people minds / MORmON minds operate.

Sorry, Smirk. Do they not care the panic of the last days has gone on as long as the church has been around?
The leadership ladder simply ends in more work and time away from family... except for the rare GA golden plates parachute.

MORmONISM is woven into the utter destruction of my former family in the same way that wool is woven into a Navajo blanket.
MORmONISM would blame me for what when it was much more their fault. ( thanks for the sympathy, I am so glad to be rid of that Hellish arrangement)

My ex BIL the bishop has 9 kids, He was in his mid 30's before he was married and started a family. His dad dropped dead in his 60's. Do the math. MORmONISM is currently running him ragged. One of these days, much sooner than most are expecting, he is simply going to drop dead. The MORmONS will see his life as consecrated to "THE" church instead of the reality - that is was stolen by "THE" church. I hope to outlive him by at least 20 years.

Not all TBM wives are like that woman you are describing. And I have daughters.

But lots are...

Status is so ridiculously important to many LDS women, especially those whose entire identity revolves around their husband.

I outta know, I was married to one.

And yes, it was demoralizing and suffocating and intractable.

I know Elder B., not all are like that... and I'm sure you have been a great role model for your daughters/family...

My point is, this is what they are being taught by the church, day in, day out. Many of tteir peers push these messages as well. Some of it is more covert, but it is a method to control the men in the church also.

They will never reach their potential if everything revolves around the church status of their husband,or future husband. That podcast was one example... and I've seen it over and over in my family.

I understand that the program is to produce a sterotype of Mormon woman. But their program isn't close to being super successful. I would gather that from reading some husband's posts here my own included.

I just wanted to qualify your post. I think it needed it.

My co-worker has now come to realize a tiny bit the depth of a problem my disbelief poses to my wife and family. But the fact that we are not divorced and we have open communication and she knows the depth of my disbelief and dislike of Mormonism shows me that for possibly other ExMormon husbands here with believing wives there is still hope and they are not alone.

The women here who have gone through YW, and or taught YW know that temple marriage to an RM and having children is the constant message. (In spite of Mormon kickboxing heroine films...)

The person who conducted the interview I listened to was a friend and a therapist? She kept egging her on with her victim pity party-being married to a dreaded apostate...

I hope things work out for anyone who holds their marriage together but it's a tough battle, taking on LDS Inc. and the constant messages of what an eternal family should look like... I wish you well E.B., sincerely.

Thanks for the well wishing.

In short, my wife took on the challenge TBM wives have with disbelieving husbands. Like a scarlet letter she took her branding and made it a badge of pride. She became Primary President without an active husband. She kicked ass at it and people recognized it.

She is a force of nature. I really like how strong she is I just wish the Morg didn't have her.

Thank you, Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders.

I will watch it tonight as soon as I get a few free moments to devote my full attention to it.

I will most assuredly, return and report.

I will, too! I appreciate you thinking of me and sharing this....!

Just finished part one of the interview, and it was rather hard to get thru, so much of this is my tbm wife.
One thing that stood out was that this TBM woman is playing the victim role of a marriage you would have thought was very abusive.
Not only does she drag her husband into a meeting with their bishop so he can explain himself, she even then goes as far to pull about a dozen of the RS to a pity-party meeting for her claiming two reasons;

#1) To explain her "alone" or "single mom" status when people see her at church. As if, those few hours on Sunday is her whole life.

#2) To head off any rumors or gossip when people see her alone at church, and they might wonder why?
(Well, lady, your own personal RS meeting probably started more rumors and gossip, than keeping your mouth shut. Its all about appearances, isn't it.)

I wanted to scream!!!
Can't wait to hear part 2.

This was very hard to watch. My wife is a victim, too, when she talks to other Mormons. I'm no longer a good man, despite me being honest, hard working, patient, and loving towards her and the kids.

I'm less than.

This was so hard to watch.

Heart-breaking... for you, superman, and the others.

My brother left the church after studying with Hugh Niblets "Nibley." Of course his wife filed for divorce. What good was he then, without a priesthood badge? Who would escort her to the temple, or call her super secret sacred temple name? He was a stable provider, fantastic father... (He told each child customized bedtime stories, spent active outdoor time with them... ) He passed away last year; the best, most honest person I've ever known.

She is on self-righteous priesthood holder divorce #5. One had been arrested in Las Vegas, another went to prison for real estate/mortgage banking fraud... #5 turned out to be an abusive covert polygamist.

These women literally bite the hand that feeds them when there is a crimp in their Mormon/Disney forever family fantasy. They might actually attempt to work at their marriage if it was until death do you part...

We did nothing wrong.


We stuck with our integrity.


We were starkly honest.


We followed the facts and faced them head on.


We made life changing emotional decisions that affected all around us and took the courage to stick with it no matter how hard.

We were devalued, shunned and divorced for doing the right thing.

Cowering to a threatening monster to save your own skin is easy.

Shoving a needle in that monsters toe to free yourself and your family?

That's a hero who can see the future and has the balls to stare the monster in the eye while he shoves in the needle.

Now why would a spouse want to be married to such? And isn't it interesting that the spouse cannot see the hero?

Fear of the monster causes blindness in complacent cowards.

The monster created the cowards and that monster is the root of the issue in it's entirety.

Powerful perspective.

Daddy, daddy bishop, daddy stake president, daddy Joseph Smith, daddy Nephi/chops heads off for sky daddy, daddy Monson, daddy brethren, daddy Savior, and heavenly sky daddy aren't the heroes?

Wow. Check out Ex-sistersinfulshoulders driving an bigger wedge between you and your spouses. Yes, you're gonna say the institution did it first but you're only making it worse. Here's an idea: reconnect with your wives leave out all third party "helpers" and get back in the game of building up your relationship with your wife. Or, if you need a third party, hire a trained therapist. This board is driving me crazy at all the people who complain that the institution breaks up their marriage but then I see so many people betray the confidence, trust, and privacy of their spouses right and left. Get off the internet and start loving your wives again. That's all they need, your love. That at some respect.

annoyedatthis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. Check out Ex-sistersinfulshoulders driving
> an bigger wedge between you and your spouses.
> Yes, you're gonna say the institution did it first
> but you're only making it worse. Here's an idea:
> reconnect with your wives leave out all third
> party "helpers" and get back in the game of
> building up your relationship with your wife.

With all due respect, you have no clue what you are talking about.

If it were simple to leave the "third party helpers" out of the marriage, don't you think we fucking would have!

We fucking tried to make it just between husband and wife, but we fucking can't when one spouse keeps making it about husband, wife and the fucking cult!

Excuse my French.

annoyedatthis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This board is driving me crazy at all
> the people who complain that the institution
> breaks up their marriage but then I see so many
> people betray the confidence, trust, and privacy
> of their spouses right and left. Get off the
> internet and start loving your wives again.
> That's all they need, your love. That at some
> respect.

We would be divorced without RfM because I believe the support to stand my ground was founded in the innumerable posts I read here.

My wife has complained to me about feeling like a single parent and not to the church people. I have shared personal information involving her here. I admit it. I am an asshole. But I can't say enough how much RfM has helped us out.

That third party turns an unbelieving spouse into the devil incarnate. When the spouse denies and is literally afraid to have intimacy with you because of third party influence then you can talk.

How can you love when what you'll get back is conditional upon keeping your mouth shut, coming back into the fold, being obedient to church authority and writing a check for ten percent of your income for the privilege?

Far more complicated that third party thing is that you make out.

My now ex-wife had sex with the then republican speaker of the house (in Utah).

While we were still married.

And while he was still married.

Luckily they didn't betray the confidence, trust, and privacy of their spouses.

Because TBM.



(Excuse me while I go vomit now.)

Dude, what a nightmare of epic proportion... And YOU'RE the bad guy? I hope you have found peace and happiness since then.

Life is much, much, much better.

I'm out of the TBM guilt-trip brain-tilt world, which in and of itself is a worth the pain I had to go through to get here.

But another huge plus is that I'm no longer trying to "make it work" with my now-ex. That was a horribly depressing scenario, for me, trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and all. We really had nothing in common, save the kids, and the church. (And incidentally, it probably wasn't any better for her. We were two ridiculously incompatible people, trying to live together as a team, because ghawd said so.)

The biggest regret I have from that whole sordid mess is that my relationship with my oldest has been strained, to the point of breaking. (Although here lately, i.e., the past 4 years, things with him seem to be improving / thawing.)

So sometimes, I have to bite my tongue a bit, when I read stories here of spouses who no longer believe, and the emotional duress and public shaming and principle compromising they have to go through just to save their relationship with their TBM partner. Because I know how much better it is on the other side of the chasm.

I get to drink beer. I get to drink coffee. I get to smoke the occasional cigar. I get to have guilt-free sex. I get to keep my own free time. I get to keep my own earned money. And most importantly: I get to think whatever my little brain wants to think.

To rob from the popular PSA: It gets better! (And oh my, how much better it is.)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2015 12:19PM by schlock.

The wedge is absolutely the LDS institution for many struggling relationships. Marriages, parents and children, siblings, and even communities. I have heard the same comments over and over from egocentric, selfish Mormons that can't have the happy life they think they deserve, because a loved on thinks differently then them. A spouse or child breaks away many times because they finally put the pieces together about all the deceit with the LDS church.It takes true integrity to speak up or question why so many follow so blindly and without question.

For those of you on this board that are trying to hold together relationships as described in the podcast, there are many that can relate to your pain and many more not willing to admit they know the wedge is their LDS indoctrination. It truly tears relationships apart..annoyedatthis,stop lurking if you don't like to see the truth.

With the church, ward, bishop, RS Pres, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Thomas Monson, and every last GA and wing nut involved in a marriage, it becomes a very, very crowded "institution."

Are these men trying to lead their families out of the insanity supposed to wear a gag, ear plugs, and blinders? Where is their support? LDS Social Services, paid by the perpetrators? If you're such an expert, annoyed, where do they go when they are never good enough or accepted for speaking the truth?

I hope they can hold their marriages together, but it is very harsh to judge those who cannot when you haven't walked in their shoes. This happened in my family...

Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope they can hold their marriages together, but
> it is very harsh to judge those who cannot when
> you haven't walked in their shoes.

Even I haven't walked in those shoes. If we went that route I would be divorced and I would have RfM to thank for it. I admire folks who stand their ground in face of terrible odds.

But love can conquer LDS Hatesell.

How much family unity happens on Sunday? Everyone fights to get ready and be on time. Families are separated by category: nursery, primary, SS, Priesthood, YW. The bishopric's wives can't sit with them and must wrangle the kids on their own... Teens have extra mtgs on Sundays, home teaching interrupts everything...

Think what would happen if all those families went to a park, or beach for three hours. You could have ten minutes about Jesus, or positive attributes, or charity... People would have to interact and have real conversations.

The church is a wedge, a giant celestial wedgie.

Man oh man is the cult ever a wedge. Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders asks, "How much family unity happens on Sunday?"

I will take that further. How much family unity happens every day of the week when all the members of said family are doing their separate church thing, especially a mom and pop in a leadership role?

I just spent a good part of the day with a TBM family. What a difference there was in conversation compared to families that are not TBM. I was on the fringe, given comments that were laced with condescension and judgement, and left out of so much of the conversation because the talk was religion this and religion that.

I can tell you how it made me feel. Valued, well about none at all, in the way (as in excess baggage), and very bored. I was glad when I was dropped off.

Sorry you had an overdose of your own personal court of love (TBM family). On the phone they immediately start talking about callings or mission calls... My mother manages to toss in the plan of salvation every phone call. Ugh. I think I know it by now...

Celestial wedgie.. Ain't that the truth..