I was going to post this anonymously, but there's enough information in my situation that it would be easy to guess who I am on the board, so I decided to just use my moniker. I slept with my boyfriend and I am feeling a lot of guilt. This is on topic because I think my guilt is due to residual feelings of past low self worth I felt in the past in mormonism. I always struggled with being chaste as a Mormon. I waited until my temple wedding night to lose my virginity to my ex-husband, but it was a difficult struggle to wait. I went "too far" with my high school sweetheart (heavy petting; what a funny mormon phrase) and was put on formal probation for 6 months because of it my senior year in high school. I also was in constant "trouble" with my bishop and was put on informal probation twice before that for making out with two previous boyfriends. Now that I'm a Catholic, my new church considers fornication to be a mortal sin. I'm wondering how much of my new guilt is due to my past issues in mormonism and how much of it is due to my new faith of catholicism. Maybe there isn't much difference. I am not just feeling guilty over having sex. I am feeling equally horrible for letting myself get sucked into a new religion. I hate that I believe in it enough that I feel this guilt. As I stated in a previous thread, I am "losing my religion", so this all comes at a very confusing time. I'm torn. Part of me feels so guilty that I want to go to confession and break up with my boyfriend over this. The other part of me, who was atheist and/or agnostic for 10 years, thinks this is silly. Am I letting some man-made religion dictate my own personal sexuality? Am I allowing some man or men decide what I should or should not do with my own body and what does this say about me? Am I losing progress in my life? Am I right back to the backwards misogyny I dealt with as a Mormon? Because it kinda feels that way. Have any of you dealt with this guilt as a Mormon? How did you deal with the guilt? Have any Catholics or previous Catholics on the board dealt with this before? I just hate myself today and don't know how many of these feelings are based on what I feel about sin and my body and how many of them are routed in misogyny and indoctrination. It feels horrible either way. On the one hand, I did a crappy thing. On the other hand, I let myself get sucked into another dogmatic, misogynistic religion that is not feeling all that different than mormonism. I believed in catholicism so deeply for the year before I was baptized, in my classes to prepare to be a Catholic, and at my baptism that I am feeling guilty, according to catholic beliefs. I feel like a hypocrite and well, as sinner. However, I'm so worried that I am letting a religion that I am no longer so sure about dictate my morals and my self worth. I have slept with guys in the past, after my marriage and before I decided to be Catholic and felt NO guilt. It was such a freeing time in my life and I felt like I had made a lot of progress in my life to own my body and sexuality and the many feelings that go with that. Have a taken huge steps backward in my personal evolution? What are your thoughts? I'm sorry I sound so obnoxious in my confusion with religion and sexuality lately. I feel annoying. Thanks for reading and for your thoughts. I just feel so lost lately and don't know how to properly deal with these emotions. Mormonism just put me through so much needless guilt that really damaged my life and now I am feeling the same way, once again. I seem to not be making progress in my life and my growth seems to be retarded. I am losing all sense of logic and the ability to govern my own life. Maybe that's what happens when we hand our lives over to religion. I think I over-cacluated my ability to deal with organized religion.

By the way, my boyfriend is also catholic and feels no guilt at all. He also says that he has never been to confession and he was born and raised catholic. He attends mass each week too. I guess there are many different types of catholics in the world.

...that the Catholic Church is the whore of all the earth, and Mormonism is a fraud. :-)

Go take a bath in magic Guilt-Away Bubble Bath Beads!

Your sexuality totally belongs to you. This is where the Catholic dogma and its cheap ripoff Mormonism go off the rails. Nobody has any business guilting you over what you do with it. You worry about what if they're right, but how can they possibly be right?

Look at how they judge, how they control, how they put conditions around their love turning it from holy to profane. Those are their qualifications. It's like someone's pet parrot telling you your car needs a new transmission. A parrot doesn't understand the first thing about cars or transmissions, no matter how convincingly it may talk.

That you're posing these questions says you're ahead of the curve. It's a matter of finding your self after having it repressed all these years. But believe me, it's in there and you'll find it.

You are taking your Catholic faith FAR too seriously. I say that as someone who was born and raised in the Catholic church. Most Catholics are "cafeteria" meaning that they pick and choose what to take seriously and what not to take seriously. Pre-martial sex is something that few Catholics worry about. Your boyfriend's attitude is very typical.

As for the guilt, consider that there is useful guilt (that helps you to make a course correction when you've done something wrong,) and not so useful guilt (over things that are truly not harmful.) Consensual sex with your boyfriend easily falls under the latter category. Disregard the guilt that you are feeling because it's truly not meaningful.

As you grow older you will come to realize that sex is just sex. It's not worth getting all worked up over.

Briggy, while lust is a mortal sin in Catholicism, it is by no means near the top of the list. Pride, avarice, envy and wrath are higher on the list. I've even seen lust at the bottom. It is far from being a sin second only to murder.

Especially when it comes to fornication, most Catholics tend to not see it as big of a deal as other sins. Sinful, yes, but there are much bigger sins out there.

This is me as a Catholic talking so feel free to ignore what I have to say. I do not think you should break up with your boyfriend over this, but I would go to confession. The priest has heard it all and then some and can probably give you some good advice. Every time I go to confession, I feel incredibly guilty going in but feel incredibly joyful coming out. I readily admit that I am a sinner, but we are all in the same boat together. I feel guilty about things I do wrong, but I don't beat myself up over it and neither should you.

I will agree that one of the nice things about Catholicism is the feeling that "we are all sinners and are all in this together." It leads to a feeling of true community because everyone acknowledges that they are fallible.

We were counselled to be chaste in the weeks leading up to our wedding....well...that lasted about 3 days...and then hormones and our intense love for each other overruled that notion.

RB

Then you must sleep with him lots more times until the guilt goes away.





(Always practice safe sex, blah, blah, blah... Just added that for any prudes that might drop by...)

Wait... why is safe sex just for prudes?

I thought it was for people who were trying to avoid STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

(And yes, I'm probably a prude. But that's beside the point.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2015 11:01PM by finallygetsit.

You don't need guilt. Life is too short.

In Mormonism, all (intentional) sins are grouped together since 'God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance'.


Therefore, knowingly receiving too much change is the same as murder.


this is contrary to what the bible teaches, 'sins not unto death'.

IOW, Mormons don't bother to put things into any perspective, 'It's all bad'.

I can truly relate to the feelings you are experiencing. Being raised in a large family of girls (7), I carried with me, from an early age the constant voice of o just say no. Because we're indoctrinated at a very early age and adapt to the rules of our "tribe", it's no wonder when we reach adulthood there is much confusion- especially with our sexual being.

I hope you are able to stop that inner dialogue, that voice delivering shame and discomfort- it is only remnants of all the negative clutter. The moment that voice begins to speak, ask yourself, "where would I be without that thought?" It helped me stop the that tape in my head which ultimately led to self deprecating behavior.

Focus on embracing the beauty of what it is to be a woman- especially your sensual being:)

Think of it this way. Studies show that 95%+ of people have premarital sex at some point before the age of 44. If you do believe in God, which it sounds like you kind of do, do you really think that he wants 95% of his children to go to hell (or whatever the consequence is) for something that our bodies were made to do? At least that's how I think about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2015 07:39PM by laxy.

Briggy,

You recently posted a reply to one of my threads for the first time and I appreciate your input. Thought I would do the same.

Basic troubleshooting technique says that if both you and your BF are experiencing the same church, same mass, same messages, same music, same, same, same, yet having very different reactions, then your reaction is about you, not about the church.

The purpose of the Christian church, the institution, is to bring people closer to Christ, the Person. One's relationship to the institution, its forms and rituals and such, is a gateway to a relationship with the Person.

Please forgive me for not knowing you well, and for being only a student of Catholicism, not Catholic myself. It seems to me that your first question is this: is the triune God real? If so, then your next question is this: did He enter our world incarnate in the person of Jesus? If so, then this: do you want a growing relationship with God in the person of Jesus? Sin describes blockage in that relationship, just as there are attitudes and behaviors that inhibit our human relationships.

In Mormonism, as best I understand it, the main relationship is between you and the institution. The Person is almost irrelevant. If you're carrying this baggage over into Catholicism, then perhaps you're focused on the institution and its forms and rituals, but also its rules and regulations.

It's just a guess, but it sounds to me like maybe your BF is not trying to have much of a relationship with either the institution or the Person. Just enjoying the ambiance and the identity?

And you're trying to do what? I really don't know. But I don't need to know. You do. What is it you're trying to do?

All the best,

JAR

I thought the two brands of guilt canceled each other out.

Healthy human sexuality is just that: Healthy.

I'm thinking it might help to see an individual counselor at this point in your life. Somebody to help you process thoughts and feelings - those that are net-negatives, and those that are net-positives.

The guilt-prism through which you are viewing your own life experiences seems to be skewing them in a dysfunctional way.

Maybe with some dial-tweaking, with the help of a therapist / counselor, life won't be so confusing and angst-inducing.

If you had sex....that might be something that religions heap guilt on you for....but just sleeping together....nothing to feel guilty about IMHO...if either of you snore...then you might feel bad that the other party didn't get a peaceful nights sleep.

I recall the story of the young man standing before the judge and when the judge asked him "Young man, did you sleep with that girl?" The young man shouted out..."Not a wink Your Honor!!"

Now that ain't sleeping.........nothing wrong with sleeping

Guilt is anger turned inward.

Stop being angry with yourself and start loving yourself and treating yourself gently, kindly, lovingly and with total acceptance for who you are.

Life is way, way too short to be overwhelmed by guilt for loving another human being and expressing that. So, just stop beating yourself up and start being grateful that you have love and sexuality in your life. Many don't and wish they did. Spurn any religion that seeks to deprive you of the joy of being human.

Beautifully stated NYC.

Having the opportunity to love another human being, and to express that love in a physically intimate setting, are incredible gifts of this crazy journey we call life.

Don't allow marmish religio-types to taint and sully these gifts with their prurient lecherous ideologies.

I've always liked to view the Baron Harkonnen from Dune as a metaphor for the religious plutocrats - to better understand the jealousies and pathologies that drive them.

They cannot stand joy and happiness - it is to them anathema.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWq15lDh8yM



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2015 12:09PM by schlock.

The only thing better than heavy petting ... is sex!

I was raised Catholic, BriggyWee...

You went the opposite way of me...I was Catholic first, Mormon second.

Let me tell you something about Catholics that you might not realize...

For all the talking they do about sitting on your cherry til marriage, not using birth control, not having an abortion, and not divorcing...well, they're the biggest perpetrators of all those things.

I went to a Catholic school where about a quarter of the kids were born out of wedlock, myself included.

Just about every Catholic woman I know has used birth control that the church wouldn't approve of, my mother included.

The only three women who have told me they've had abortions were Catholics. For one of those women, that seemed to be her only birth control method.

Most of my Catholic friends lived "in sin" for a while with their significant other before marrying them.

And about half the Catholics I know, mother included, have been divor----er, I mean, had their marriages annulled. My mother shamelessly bragged that she had no problem annulling her marriage to my father, because he's a non-practicing Jew. I said, "so if the marriage didn't happen, I guess my brother's a bastard, too!" I got slapped for that.


So, Briggy, if they have no shame, you shouldn't feel guilt for sleeping with a man you love. Just don't listen to the Catholics on the birth control. No matter what they try to tell you, you can't determine ovulation by checking your temp and sticking your hand up your chotch. That's how people like me get made.

Be careful when you follow the masses......often the "m" is silent.

Drop/discard the clubs of shame and guilt and start living your life within the bounds of the gift of free will and choice.
Stop beating yourself up.

Don't ruin good sex with guilt.... life is too short.

You didn't do anything wrong. Human beings were made

to have sex, its normal and natural.


Go forth and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!

The Catholic church has always been waaay to hung up about sex. Masturbation is a sin, rape is a sin, but not as bad as masturbation, because rape still leaves the path clear to procreation. In fact, sex is only acceptable within the state of Holy Matrimony, for the purpose of procreation. There's no way anybody can live up to their impossible standards. I know, I was raised Catholic, and heard all through Catholic school how even my chaste existence was an abomination (I am gay). Later turns out the "Holy Brethren" at my High School was full of pedophiles. What two consenting adults do is nobody's business but theirs. If you want a religious out, If you disagree with a church doctrine (but not dogma) with your "clear, normal conscience", then you are not bound by it.

I was 49 before I had premarital sex.

I've told my story a million times--BUT I saved myself. I was a true mormon virgin UNTIL I found out my boyfriend was gay and the bishop started assigning us to "experiment." I had never french kissed because I thought I had to confess. My nonmo boyfriend at age 20 (who I am with now) tried to force his tongue through my clenched teeth . . . there was no way in hell I was going to confess to a bishop. Then in order to save a male for the lds church, I was told I could do pretty much anything EXCEPT intercourse and he'd give me a temple recommend. I'm actually sure THAT bishop would have let me get a TR even if we had intercourse. I'm sure all the bishops, counselors, SPs I talked to would have jumped for joy if we had had intercourse. BUT I just couldn't handle this double standard. It really fucked up my head. I didn't do much, but even "making out" made me feel guilty. What a MESS they made. And I had to see many bishops because bishops got released and I moved home and had to talk to my cousin before going to the temple. I hadn't done much more than french kiss and because I wouldn't give them details, my cousin almost postponed my wedding. What an ass. I was a fucking mess because of these voyeurs.

When I had sex with my boyfriend from my 20s at age 49--I have never felt one ounce of guilt. It seems natural.

All their laws, etc., they are meant to be bent. I learned in a very difficult fashion that it is all BULLSHIT, all this sex talk. You can't tell someone to save themselves and then say, "Well, it's okay as long as you are trying to save someone gay."

Let it go AND there is no way in hell I'd EVER even set foot in any church anymore.

As nearly as I can figure it out (and I spent a huge portion of my earlier life figuring on this one), the rules about sex that come from religion boil down to two things:

One is that men own/control women and woman's sexual activity belongs to the man who owns/controls her. Anything that threatens that ownership is a threat to the patriarchy. That's the primary reason that sex outside of marriage is considered such a bad thing.

The other thing is the people who set up the traditional churches wanted control over everyone. Not just women. Everyone. If you can control another person's sexual expression, you can control them completely. Many religions have continued to hold this view. It has nothing to do with what is good or bad or harmful or helpful. It is all about controlling others. Power over others.

The only rules about sex that you or anyone needs to be concerned with at those that speak to safe sex and responsible sex. Don't use sexual activity to hurt someone else. Don't spread sexually transmitted diseases (and preferably, don't get any, yourself). Don't do anything that harms another person --- so don't have sex with people who are too young and don't force sex on anyone. Stuff like that.

Otherwise, sex is perfectly normal and natural and a very good thing. Anyone who tells you differently is only trying to control you. To have power over you. Guilt is a great way to control others. Instilling guilt in you over things that are harmless is how people control you.

Sweetheart, work on letting that guilt go. It's hard, if you have been trained to feel guilt. But you can just let it go, bit by bit. And you should, because you didn't do anything at all that is a bad thing, as far as I can see. Instead of worrying about the guilt, think seriously about why you would let others control something that is beautiful and natural, and that is totally your own thing to use as you wish. As long as you don't harm anyone.(Yourself included.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2015 11:58PM by peculiargifts.

The Catholic Church is for saints and sinners.

As Patrick Madrid a Catholic Apologist says;

"I love being Catholic the way Noah loved being on the Ark when the flood came. Like the Ark, the Catholic Church is not perfect. It’s not tidy, clean, and odor-free. It has plenty of problems and challenges and unruly passengers, but it’s still the “ark of salvation” given to us by God and I love that I get to be on board. I love the beauty of the Catholic Church’s teachings, its Liturgy, art, architecture, music, and wisdom. I love the Catholic Church because it is “ever ancient, ever new.” I love tracing its existence back 2000 years to Jesus Christ and the Apostles, and I get to be part of that. I love being Catholic because of its richness and diversity. It’s a big hospital for sick people – sinners, like you and me — and it’s in the Catholic Church that I can receive the cure for what ails me. I love being Catholic because I can have the most personal relationship with Jesus Christ possible, by receiving Him, body, blood, soul, and divinity, in the Holy Eucharist.

Briggy, don't be so hard on yourself. We all make mistakes!
No one, on this planet is perfect, but God alone!

Others have given good advice.

I'm just going to point out that "fornication" is not what most churches (certainly not Mormons and Catholics) claim it is.

Keep in mind that in "bible times," there was no "marriage." No ceremony, no contract, none of what makes up modern "marriage." What made a couple "husband and wife" in the eyes of their community was the sex act. Typically, a man would bargain with a woman's father to buy her, and then he'd have sex with her. Assuming it could be proven (via a bloody cloth after the fact) that the woman had been a virgin, after the sex they were considered husband and wife. So with no "marriage," there was no such thing as "sex before marriage" -- sex was, in their eyes, what made a "marriage."

The "sin of fornication" wasn't therefore "sex before marriage." The "sin" was that after having sex, if either a man or woman didn't treat their sex partner AS their spouse, they were guilty of fornication.

So even under the guilt-trips of churches, as long as you treat your sex partner as a spouse, you haven't "fornicated."

:)

You done something very normal. Part of growing up. Nothing to be ashamed of. No guilt trips,,

Be gentle with yourself. It was perfectly understandable for you to feel that way, given the way that you were raised.

Recognize where those feelings came from and cut yourself a break.

Try to put it into perspective. The world didn't come to an end. You weren't struck by lightning. It was normal for you to feel that way, but it's okay.

I think that when we first do things outside of the Mormon, or even Catholic rulebook, we expect to be struck by lightning or something. But we're not and life goes on as usual.

If you remind yourself where it came from, you may be able to put it into perspective and relax over time. In the meantime, don't be too hard on yourself, because feeling that way was understandable, given your past circumstances.