I am so tired of this rape culture. And especially, the abuse within mormonism. This is part of the reason that I left the church and will never go back!

There is this almost sadistic problem that I have seen among mormon men. Who, of course, are not allowed any kind of release. You can't touch yourself. Let alone anyone else according to the church! I see this as a huge mistake that creates really creepy men!

I asked another girl (at a resteraunt) her feelings. She is well endowed as I am and is merely an acquaintance. But, I asked her how she felt. And she said that
"Yes! That is why I left the mormon church!" We both have had such problems with men in the church. I had always felt that because I was very "morally" clean and innocent that I was marked as some sort of prize to be won! And that my purity and innocence were some sort of trophy! Disturbingly so! Because, it seemed that if I did not give it to some, they would just take it! It was mormon men, returned missionaries and the like, who drugged my drinks (water and soda) and date raped me!

I was mildly assaulted today, on the street, by a mormon man that I will not go with or marry! He was dumped by another girl and already upset! I told him that he admits to be marrying for sex! Not love! And no, I am not interested! He can just go have sex! Right? He told me over and over that in marriage sex is love. And I was trying to explain that sex is not love. Sex is a normal bodily function! He can be a way to express love. But, it is not love! Then, he physically grabbed me and held me and I said, "Stop touching me!" It was un-freaking believable! I pulled away and am now feeling I have to report him to the police! Are mormon men this screwed up across the board? Because, that has been my experience.

Another reason that I hate Utah! Good grief!

No person should have had to have your horrific experiences. I know my saying that I'm sorry you've had these does not put even a small bandage on the pain, but I am also sending many Grandma (((hugs))) your way.

I believe lots of men grow up, both in the cult and other places, with a very sick, unhealthy picture of sex. My suggestion would be to tell these mormon men that you believe they have been the victim of this and they need counseling to begin to see sex in a healthy way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2015 07:42PM by presleynfactsrock.

Thank you for responding! And thank you for the very needed Grandma hugs!!!!!

I think this post has scared people off or something. lol

But, it needs to be addressed!

Satans Sister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think this post has scared people off or
> something. lol
>

not scared. Just don't know what useful thing I can add.

Women as well, considering that women rape men as well (and women rape other women for that matter).

Is sex a goal, or a part of a process?

Or both?

If it's both, how bad can it get when one participant is goal oriented, while the other is process oriented?

Christ in hell, are you for real?

Yeah, it's just Utah Mormon men who rape and you are so fantastic they can't help themselves.

Forfucksake, your generalizations are over-the-top nonsense and unbelievably offensive.

I mean, why are utah mormon women so frigid, stupid, and full of themselves?

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds??

Yeah, Utah is such a terrible place. Maybe try Iraq or Iran or Russia...they're great to the ladies - treated like queens!

woe is you, fuck

I think the OP was driven by juxtaposing announced church standards with perceived church behavior. It's not much of a reach to suppose that the OP knows that things are not super duper for women the world over.

Your fervor, Dafuq, is ... Well, I don't know what it is!

Fine, fine
her experiences are likely legit and valid but to brand an entire population of males as rapists simply because she believes they are sexually repressed is insane and it should not be tolerated. It'bullshit.

I'm not from Utah but I lived there for a time. I never once have considered harassing or raping a woman. My friends, many of whom are still hardcore mormon, many who are married, have never raped women or hit them or disparaged them or talked of or mentioned doing so. Males in my FAMILY, almost all mormon, some living in Utah, have never raped, hit, or made advances at Church towards other married or unmarried women.

This idea that men - simply just suck - sets me off.

Perhaps SS would be happier with a woman...

Uh - you harassed a woman when you swore up a blue streak at one for having a different opinion than you. You could have stated your case intellectually and it would have been a good one. But you chose to spew foul language and hatred and tried to intimidate the OP. It was unnecessary and completely invalidates your claim that you treat women well.

I can't help it, it's my male mormon upbringing!
OMG! I didn't even realize I was doing it...

Jesus, save me!

She explained that a patriarchal culture of sexual repression and male privilege sets up women (and men too) to be harassed and exploited. The culture needs to be criticized and dismantled. If you're taking it as personal criticism, maybe you should look at what the word microagression means.

Lemme ask you something- When was the last time you walked down the street, minding your own business, and some guy start saying sexually suggestive things to you and then threatened to shoot you (or other violence) when you told him to back off?

Then you were worried if you made a complaint, that no one would believe you, try to put the blame on you, and dismiss you as being dramatic and hysterical?

Yesterday

IDK if you're being flippant or serious, but either way, it's endemic of the culture at large.

I've noticed that those who know very little about this subject are cocksure they know all about it and practice blaming, minimizing, and obfuscating what the issue is really about.

Of course, you're entitled to your own thoughts and feelings about the issue at large, but maybe you could have a wider perspective by looking into the issue a little deeper.

I somehow don't see you as being the fly on the wall of all the mens lives that you know!

Let me tell you about two of the many that I know from a womans perspective.

One man that returned from a mission with honor. And whom I wanted to marry, drugged my water and date raped me! I guess that he thought this was okay since I was knocked out! For obvious reasons, I could not date him again! He married a in the temple, and is raising a nice little mormon family here in Utah. I doubt he ever told you, his friends or his wife about me!

A second example was someone that I quit dating after watching the way he used women all through school, tricked and trapped them and etc. I also see that he frequently posts global messages on facebook of virtue and purity to his daughters about how their virtue is like rubies! That just makes me want to throw up!

I think it is more telling and more important to look at how women are feeling in the mormon culture. It doesn't help to pretend and stay drunk on mormon Kool aide!

Didn't you just admit to wanting to rape your wife the whole time you dated? I think this is the rape culture the OP is talking about. Are you a troll or are you really this messed up, Dafaq?

Just that messed up

Thank you, ThatLittleBriggyWentWeeWeeWe! I would agree that something is messed up! Whenever someone replies with that much anger, I think of guilt! Or, as you say...a spammer!

A good man is hard to find.

However, a hard man isn't all there is to a good find.

Best wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 01:53PM by Shummy.

WOW!


Some emotions are pretty raw, eh, Dafuq?



I have had to get some therapy for having been raped/molested.


I can fully understand the idea that the OP had issues thinking that she her purity and innocence is a trophy that others (specifically Mormon Men) would be willing to forcefully take from her.

It was ingrained into many a young woman, me too, that our purity was of highest value, it would be better to die than it would be to survive a rape. Imagine the horror of being kidnapped, though not raped, and having your own mother say, "I don't know what we would've done had you been raped." While you are sitting in the tub trying to scrub the 'filth' of the kidnapper off and remembering that you had been molested as a 3 year old, by a babysitter SHE had hired!

And, I found, way back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth...OK, in the 80's when I was on the dating scene, that it was really the Mormon boys who were so dead-set at trying to take my purity. Of course they didn't know about my molestation as a young kid, and they probably would have backed off a good arm's length if they had.

In fact, it was a non-member who told me that I had an unhealthy fear of guys over sex, because if he wanted sex, there were plenty of girls who would give it freely! And, most 'normal' men were more than willing to enjoy a gal's presence and personality without making sexual advances (until, later when things could get more serious, and only upon mutual consent). That was an eye-opener to me.

And, yeah, it was EVERY SINGLE MORMON MALE that I went out with that tried to make out, even on the FIRST date. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I went on several dates with non/never Mormon guys, and NEVER had any unwanted sexual advancements... just dinner, a movie, sitting and talking, even road trips, NO SEXUAL demands. Though I did have one guy say it was time to move to the next level or break up, and because I was Mormon and still very influenced by my parents, we broke up.


However, to say that sex IS love. PFFFT! That is someone's twisted idea that may be coming from the pulpit itself! I remember one leader insisting that couples should never engage in intercourse except for procreation! UMMMMM.... Yeah, that doesn't work.


AND, yeah there are those that the whole sex act is "just for fun" and doesn't necessarily imply 'attachment'. I don't fall into that category either.


Oh, and another thing that us Mormon (and probably a lot of other conservative) Girls were (probably) inadvertently taught is that if our husband wants sex, you'd better give it to him. But if YOU want sex... too bad, bury the feeling, it is EVIL! That has hindered my relationships too. It is also along the errant thinking that IF a man has an affair, it is his wife's fault!

I read this thread early on, before you had any responses, and didn't respond. But, seeing some of the replies . . . wow.

From my reading of the OP, I didn't think you were accusing all Utah men (or men in general) of being rapists. What I think you're aiming for (and correct me if I'm wrong) is how the objectification of women within Mormon culture (and Western culture in general) promotes an attitude toward women's bodies that's harmful and can lead to violence and assault, and I agree. I left the church for the same reason--before I knew about the history, or the doctrinal issues, I left as soon as I graduated high school because I was tired of my value and identity being reduced to my biological function.

As an attractive woman, I often felt my body meant more than my mind. I was an honors student, earned a full-ride scholarship to a university, but none of that mattered in the Mormon culture. All that mattered was my physical appeal, my vagina, and my uterus. Was I pretty? Then an RM would earn me as a prize for his faith to the church. Was I a virgin? Then, according to D&C 132 I could be awarded to a faithful man as some sort of cosmic prize--he could add me to his harem, as long as my hymen remained intact. Was I fertile? Then it was my job to submit my body to pregnancy after pregnancy, regardless of how I felt about children, or my abilities as a mother, or my ambitions for my career or talents.

So--yes, I see Mormonism's stance towards women as fostering an attitude that supports the larger rape culture in the US. As long as women are reduced to their bodies and made objects to be won by faithful men or to be awarded like a prize by a hyper-masculine deity then in the end, it doesn't really matter what my desires or inclinations are. If a man wants to put his hands on my body, without my invitation, then he can as long as he views my body as an object provided by God to serve his needs.

As for the objections that women rape--yes, women rape. Yes, women put other people in sexual situations that are counter to those people's desires. And it's inexcusable when it happens. However, the numbers of women who are sexually assaulted by men seem to me to exceed the numbers of men who are sexually assaulted by women. Surely we can discuss the prevalance of sexual violence against women without minimizing this other, smaller category of assault?

From my perspective, I'm tired of men thinking my body is anything other than my own, to do with as I choose without needing the approval or sanction of a man. As a woman, my body does not belong to the community, an idea that contradicts 2000 years of patriarchal religious thought. In fact, making women's bodies communal property is, in my opinion, one of the main goals of Western religions generally, and one of the most insidious components of Mormonism in particular--but this may be a topic for a different thread.

So, Satan's Sister, here's my attempt at solidarity. And keep on fighting the good fight. Generous, kind men of integrity are out there (I married one). I wish you the best.

I had mormon women on a pedestal. I only went as far as they'd take me, and never wanted to take it all the way. I know I could have had my way with my high school mormon girlfriend, but never considered it. Mormonism taught me that it was sort of okay not to respect a nonmormon's virtue. Certainly my bishop was relieved to know that although I'd sinned, I didn't do it with a mormon girl.

Never dated a mormon woman after mentally resigning from belief so I can't say what I would have done, but I've never wanted more from a woman than she wanted to give. Obviously there are mormon women giving it away, or so Jody Arias told me...

I think my mormon upbringing, along with John Wayne puritanism, had its way with me, in creating a double standard. But I have to side with Dafug in agreeing that not all mormon men are like the ones cited by the OP.

I'll probably never be free of the mormon imprint on my sex life.

What is "rape culture?" Is "rape culture" the most aggressive examples of misogyny a male can demonstrate? Or is "rape culture" anything a woman doesn't like? Must decrying "rape culture" suppress all debate over gender issues?

How close is "Mormon culture" and "rape culture?" Only in "Mormon culture" can a sister say, "Is that (whatever she doesn't like) honouring your priesthood?" and expect that to become a trump card to end all discussion about a man's conduct.

Conversely, do Mormon males "leer" at women more or less than other men? Do Mormon males make judgements about women based on if they aren't active in Church or if she has a "reputation" or their appearance (or what she is drinking or smoking or ...)? But are those judgements any more harsh than other men?

And if a man expresses interest in a woman, how will a Mormon approach a woman? Will he be more or less respectful than another man?

And what about actual rape? Unless there is some threat of rape, is there even "rape culture?" Do Mormon men rape? Does the threat of consequences through the Church keep any potential Mormon rapists in line? Is that a benefit to Mormon society?

Does the Church embolden some men to commit sexual assault?

I am the father of 3 children.

My son is a convicted sex offender. Did Mormon culture contribute to raising him to commit sex crimes? He sexually assaulted his sisters. He was enabled in developing his seduction techniques because his mother never reported him to either social services or law enforcement for two years. "Working with the bishop" was useless. He learned that he could become sexually aggressive with any vulnerable female without serious consequences. Chiefly, these will be teens.

But he also learned similar lessons from social service and law enforcement. Social services wouldn't deal with him except when court mandated treatment. He learned what to say to exit treatment (cured or not). He learned how to play the legal system as well. His offences against his sisters were as a juvenile. Those convictions were sealed when he became an adult. But as an adult he learned that he could wait in remand. Eventually the prosecutor would tell his alleged victim that he would likely be sentences to time served for his "first offence." So his charges would be dismissed. He skirted several charges using such tactics until one victim wished to press charges.

Does Mormon culture promote "rape culture?" I believe there are jerks in any society. Some may be restrained by the commandments and Church standards. But some won't care about any standards or even the law. The Church shelters such psychopaths from consequences longer than necessary.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 06:05PM by idleswell.

Man, I can't wait to get started harassing women since apparently I was subconsciously taught to do so through the insidious brainwashing culture of the religion of my fathers...

Watch out ladies

If I may be so bold, you are invalidating womens feelings and experiences right now! No need to wait!

A bit generalized. BIC male here. Never raped or forced myself on a woman. Just wrong. Whether I was raised a member or not.

Just wrong - unless they're asking for it, amiright?

LOL, I guess if they want it. But then it isn't forcing is it. I have only ever had sex with my wife. Since she isn't a prude and likes as much or more than me I don't have the issues the other brainwashed men and women do with sex

Forcing yourself on your wife is wrong as well.

I think that sexual assaults (ranging from unwanted or inappropriate physical contact all the way to attempted rape or rape) are far more common than most men realize. I've been subject to two attempted rapes and at least one unwanted contact (kissing by an adult man to me as a young teen. Shades of Joseph Smith!)

To the OP, and other women: I can't recommend too strongly taking a class in self-defense or a beginning level of a martial art. I took Aikido for five years and loved it. It is a very gentle art with no kicks or punches. But I once saw a very petite woman throw a tall man across the room.

Although rusty, I used my Aikido skills within the past week. Someone grabbed my arm hard, and I was able to fend off the grab easily. All women should be prepared to defend themselves if necessary.

Out of the hundreds of women I've known and met, I think maybe 3 have not been a victim of sexual violence and abuse. Out of roughly the same amount of men, I met 2 who confessed their sexual abuse. I'm sure the number is higher.

Yes, I really know and meet a lot of people and yes, they feel comfortable opening up to me.

One car key to the eye and the fight is over

You do realize most people are assaulted by someone they know and alcohol is a factor in most sexual assaults?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfGVjSX6Ook

Just talking about the self defense. I used to teach. Thumb to the eye works. Biting is great. The inner thigh/groin area is very sensitive to pain. Not the testicles but the leg itself. Grab on and rip.

But unfortunately lacks a complete understanding of the factors surrounding the majority of rapes.

I took Wushu and other self-defense courses and I'm a vicious little hellcat. I've had the need to use self-defense, but if someone spiked my drink or overpowered me, those moves don't mean dick.

Then I get to be blamed, with, "Well, you shouldas..." That's just part of the reality of rape.

Yes, but have you actually ever had to mount a defense? I have, twice. The greatest weapon is your mind. Remain calm and formulate a defense which will likely be unique to the situation. Remaining calm is most of the battle.

Utah has the HIGHEST rate of pedaphilia. The highest. Yes it is a "Rape" culture here in Utah. So much so that the leaders of the LDS dictate who and who does not get only arrested but also prosecuted. And yes I am implying that the police are in on this.

Most cops here are Mormon. They do what they are told. They also don't want to loose their temple privvys. Like all the Mormons they are week in the head. They just go along. You'll see pedophiles and rapists busted. You'll see them in the Trib. But I can guarantee you it's probably not some TBM police officer who busted them