Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: jefecito ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 02:57PM

It sure would be interesting to know something about the size of the estate GBH left behind. Or any of the lord's deceased anointed for that matter.

I don't suppose anyone can estimate that can they?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: lurker 1 ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 03:34PM

I would like to see someone with the ability to be a "Forensic Economist" (is there such a thing) analyze the estate of Brigham Young when he died and determine how he acquired his wealth. Especially when there were many members living the law of consecration and everything they made above their absolute necessities were given over to the church.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: flanders ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 04:00PM

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/brighamyoungsestate.htm

LDS historian Leonard J. Arrington wrote:

"Brigham Young and other church authorities, when need required it, drew on the tithing resources of the church, and at a later date repaid part or all of the obligation in money, property, or services. No interest seems to have been paid for the use of these funds.... This ability to draw, almost at will, on church as well as his own funds, was a great advantage to Brigham Young and was certainly one of the reasons for his worldly success.... while Brigham Young was probably the largest borrower of funds from the trustee-in-trust, he was certainly not the only one." ("The Settlement of the Brigham Young Estate," 1877-1879, Reprinted from the Pacific Historical Review, vol. 21, no. 1, Feb. 1952, p.7-8)

LDS scholar Jeffrey Johnson observed:

"By his death on 23 August 1877, Brigham Young had married fifty-five wives. Nineteen had predeceased him, ten had received divorces, four are unaccounted for, and twenty-three survived him. Seventeen wives received a share of his estate while the remaining six apparently had nonconjugal roles." (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, ("Defining 'Wife': The Brigham Young Households," by Jeffrey Johnson, 1987, Vol. 20, No. 3, p.62)

LDS historians James Allen and Glen Leonard observed:

"It was finally determined that his estate was worth approximately $1,626,000, but obligations of more than a million dollars to the Church plus other debts and executor's fees reduced the family's claim to $224,000. When seven of his dissatisfied heirs challenged this settlement, however, that matter was settled out of court and the Church agreed to give the heirs an additional $75,000." (The Story of the Latter-day Saints, by James Allen and Glen Leonard, second ed. 1992, Deseret Book, p.385)

LDS historian B.H. Roberts told about the lawsuit filed by some of Young's heirs:

"During the three years' presidency of the council of the twelve [after the death of Pres. Young] the affairs of the church quite generally were prosperous. Some difficulty arose, however, in the matter of settling the estate of the late President Brigham Young. Some claims were made by a number of the late president's heirs respecting the possession of property that President Young held for the church as trustee-in-trust. It was alleged by them that President Young died seized of an estate valued at two and a half millions of dollars. This, however, was denied by his executors, and also by President John Taylor...that the property to which Brigham Young held the legal right or title was not worth over $1,626,000; and further they affirmed, that much of said estate was held by the testator in trust for the Church...and that Brigham Young was largely indebted at the time of his death 'and justly owed to said church over $1,000,000.' " (Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 5, by B. H. Roberts, p.524-525, BYU Press 1965)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 05:16PM

$1.6M is a lot of money today. This was a huge fortune in BY's day. Of course, not so significant for today's church...ro ably double what they spend on humanitarian aid annually though.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Doubting Thomas ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 04:03PM

It would be interesting to know the specific details, but the overall answer is that he stole it from the members of the church.

That's right. He stole it. At a time when members thought they were on a trek to Zion, for the purpose of the second coming of Jesus Christ–Brigham Young was amassing wealth from tithing and business ventures that were practically monopolies.

I dare say that Brigham Young never did a days work in his life once his party was settled in Salt Lake City.

The man was a crook and that's the NICEST thing you can say about him. When you dig deeper you see he was a lecherous pious fraud.

Lecherous... 55 wives and 56 children. (Hmm... I guess plural marriages wasn't about raising up righteous seed.) Married other men's wives (like Joseph) breaking the rule set forth in D&C 132 regarding plural wives being virgins.

Pious fraud... Look at all of his so-called revelations that are now classified as FALSE by current LDS church leaders:

1. Adam God Doctrine
2. Blood Atonement Doctrine
3. Racism and the Priesthood Doctrine
4. Sealing men to other men Doctrine (for the purpose of creating family dynasties within the church hierarchy.

Brigham Young was a stubby little overweight man with a bad temper and a vindictive personality. God's prophet on earth? I call bullshit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: matt ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 08:03PM

There are forensic accountants. A friend of ours is one.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Sojourner2 ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 04:56PM

You're right about Brigham Young, Doubting Thomas. He was also a murderer via Wild Bill Hickman and Porter Rockwell.

He was no Prophet of God.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 05:16PM

How many times have we read of God's prophet threatening to unsheath his bowie knife?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 05:16PM

How's that called "stealing" when gullibles give their money willingly?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: You don't know me ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 05:29PM

Ok, then at best he committed fraud.

He had a fiduciary responsibility for any "Church" money he came across. By diverting the money to anything other than legitimate church uses, he was a fraud who committed fraud.

If a banker comes to you and says: "I have a sure fire plan to double your money in a month! Trust me, I'm a banker and am going to invest it in under-represented securities and derivitives," then blows it on hookers, he stole the money - violated his fiduciary responsibility. Even if you willingly gave him the cash.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 05:32PM

Excuse me?
What part?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jefecito ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 06:26PM

The info on the Brigham Young estate is great. Given the amount of resources he controlled in Utah and surrounding regions, the fortune could have ended up much larger. I'm curious to know why it didn't.

The $224k plus the $75k additional settlement would be worth $6.8 million in 2014 dollars according to:

http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php

Divided 17 ways, that doesn't leave much. I would almost expect a vast Young family fortune akin to the wealthy families of the day. If it's correct that didn't materialize, it probably means BY didn't ever master the skill of laundering.

The disputes over his estate also lead me to wonder why there haven't been other disputes involving the estates of deceased mormon leaders. How do they get descendants to play nice and stay out of the courts?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 06:58PM

I suppose that Steve Benson would have an idea about his grandfather's, ET Benson, net worth, if he's willing to talk about family business.

Steve, did you get a slice of the Mormon pie?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 07:12PM

Arrington wrote a vanity book on a prominent ancestor of mine. My guy was BY 's business manager for a while.

BY's personal storehouse was in the same building as the church tithing storehouse. How convenient.

BY gave some of his wives food vouchers from the church storehouse. So much for polygamy supporting the widows and orphans. The church supported them and BY got conjugal privileges.

The man was just vile.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 07:21PM

Talk about having your cake and eating it too. BY's the Man.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: June 17, 2015 08:09PM

How sickening reading this. During the same years he was living like royalty I learned recently one of my great great grandfather's and his second polygamous wife's (my grandmother was his first wife and they lived apart,) offspring while living in Washington, Utah (a suburb today of St. George,) had only alfalfa to eat for a matter of days or weeks. They watched helplessly as one of their infant children starved before their eyes because her body rejected the only food they were able to provide for her.

All this while they labored and toiled to build up the church in Dixie, and support Young in his lifestyle of royalty while they lived like paupers.

It makes me nauseated just thinking about it. We have so much in comparison; yet those early pioneers sacrificed everything for the greed and tomfoolery of Brigham and his cronies.

He stole from them without a thought for their welfare, while they watched their children suffer, starve to death before their eyes, and all the others who suffered horrible illnesses because they lacked proper hygiene and nutrition.

What good might have come from using those resources to saving lives and feeding the hungry than lining his pockets, we'll never know.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **  ********   **     **  **     **  ******** 
 **   **   **     **   **   **    **   **   **       
 **  **    **     **    ** **      ** **    **       
 *****     ********      ***        ***     ******   
 **  **    **           ** **      ** **    **       
 **   **   **          **   **    **   **   **       
 **    **  **         **     **  **     **  ********