the sense of guilt and fear and loathing towards yourself and be able to accept that you no longer believed? I'm still at the point where any other way of life is so foreignthat coming out to my family and friends, as well as accepting my nonbelief, is terrifying.

It is a lifelong struggle. I was in the Morg for exactly one year. I was the only one in my family that was a part of it. As time goes on, I am simply casting away anything that is not necessary to me. I have rid myself of meth, Mormons, and Abrahamism. Next on my agenda is dramatic family members.

Any of those feelings have never been directed at myself. I didn't do anything wrong. Exmormons didn't originate the Mormon fraud. We're not to blame for the harm it does. Perhaps some exmos mistakenly did some harm when they were TBMs, but now they know better.

Let's place blame where it's due. We're not the culprits.

We were brave, noble and smart to leave a destructive cult. We've earned praise and don't deserve guilt, fear, regret, or loathing.

When I was your age, I didn't know what you know now. It took me into my 30's to figure it out. By then I was already on my own, through college, and a single parent.

My parents didn't support me through college though. I got through on my own and with financial aid.

It wasn't easy. My parents were inactive LDS but never stopped believing in it until the day they died. I was active LDS long after they'd stopped attending. It didn't dismay them when I stopped attending, so I didn't need to worry about them.

I have a couple of TBM brothers - one I'm still on speaking terms with. The other has done some really terrible things over the years while he's been active LDS - and I've had to cut him off.

Like Cheryl shares, place the blame where it's due, don't reproach yourself for leaving an unhealthy cult that destroys families and individuals by denying our autonomy and agency. The cult strips us of anything resembling individuality and free thought, and separates families by cutting them off from each other.

You will need to be brave and strong, but don't be foolish. If you still depend on your parents for support, it may not be wise to just cut yourself off if knowing they are going to disown you or otherwise try to control you. On the other hand, if they're open minded at all, they may even be open to your letting them know you need a time-out from church attendance because you're having doubts about your beliefs. If they love you more than they love the church, they'll support you in your soul searching.

Most of all be kind to yourself. Don't judge yourself, just be self-nurturing, especially if you're not getting it from your parents. You're going to need all the support and encouragement you can muster to cope with your leaving church activity.

The church people will come calling. Prepare for that eventuality. You'll get through it. At your parents house be polite, but recuse yourself. Once you're on your own, it gets easier. You just tell them through the door that you're not interested. They'll get the hint soon enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2015 06:05AM by amyjo.

Once I realized that Mormonism was clearly false after fully comprehending the significance of the Joseph Smith papyri (The Book of Abraham), I no longer had any guilt.

I only felt regret for having given so much of my young life to a bullshit CULT. Had I known the truth earlier, I would have never wasted two years on a mission and would have sought a real education at other than "the Lord's university".

I got the hell out of Utah as quick as I could and have never looked back. I married a never-MO and have almost nothing to do with Mormons other than several ex-mormon friends.

I think the biggest reason that I have negative feelings towards myself is because even after reading the CES letter, and many other things culminating in the Handbook of Instructions and the info on the BoA I still have an irrational fear of leaving everything I know, and that it could still be true. Like I said, it's not rational.

What shocked me the most was that last night I was looking at information on the Book of Abraham and the real translation compared with the Church's is so shockingly different. I'm ashamed. I'm counting down the days to leaving home for good this time and being able to come out to my family from a distance. I don't think they'll take kindly to it.

"I think the biggest reason that I have negative feelings towards myself is because even after reading the CES letter, and many other things culminating in the Handbook of Instructions and the info on the BoA I still have an irrational fear of leaving everything I know, and that it could still be true. Like I said, it's not rational."

Well, don't beat yourself up over it. Take your time and continue to study. My experience was, the more I learned about church history and doctrine, the less "true" the church became.

I first started having semi-serious doubts in the late 1980s. We were very active. We had three little kids, and I was a bishop's counselor. I was fully mentally and emotionally into the church. It actually took me about nine more years, learning the "anti" side of things in dribs and drabs, for me to begin studying it seriously enough to begin to mentally break free. We first got home internet service in 1995, and that's when things accelerated to where I could research just about anything about the church I wanted to. We stopped attending in April 1997, and we resigned in December of 1998. So take things at your own pace.

Man, you were a true Internet pioneer. AFAIK, readership didn't really pick up online until 2000 or maybe 2002.

"Man, you were a true Internet pioneer. AFAIK, readership didn't really pick up online until 2000 or maybe 2002."

I was earlier than a lot of people, but I'm no pioneer. We got our kids a computer for Christmas 1994. Before that, I didn't care anything about computers, the internet, or studying about Mormonism. I was already "over" the church because of my experiences in it. But my wife got us AOL early on, and she told me "Hey, there's some interesting stuff about the church on there." So I started dabbling a little, reading an article here and there. It was kinda funny: I didn't want my kids, who were still attending church at the time, to see that I was reading "anti-Mormon" stuff, so if one of them walked by the computer, I'd put my hands over the screen.

The more I read, the less true the church looked. Some of the early websites that I can remember reading were Mormons In Transition, the Tanners, rpcman's, stuff like that. In late 1996, I came across exmormon.org, and I saw that the server was in Chattanooga. I thought to myself, "Does the person who runs this live just 100 miles from me?" I found Eric K's phone number and called him and we got to know each other. We went to an Ex-Mo get-together in Chattanooga, and I began getting comfortable and interested in speaking out.

We went to the ward New Year's Eve party in 1996. I had been semi-active for years, so at that party, the bishopric and SP were falling over themselves to sit at our table where they could "fellowship" us back into full activity. By that time, I had already read so much on the 'net that I knew the church was crap, so their efforts to reel us back in were comical. We last attended meetings in April 1997, and we resigned in December 1998.

Around that same time, I discovered e-mail groups discussing Mormonism, and that's where I started debating the issues with TBMs. There were already some "antis" there at that time, but few of them were really well-versed in the details of the history etc. The TBMs could hold serve on the debates because they knew much more than the "antis." That's why I took it upon myself to learn enough about the church so that the TBMs couldn't "win" any arguments. I debated them until about 2004, when I'd said pretty much everything I had to say, and got tired of it.

Since that time, the TBMs have pretty much "lost the internet war," as Grant Palmer puts it. So I do feel some satisfaction in being a fairly early "anti" who was willing to meet the Mopologists head on. But the people who originally published the material, put it on websites, and created support groups are the real pioneers.

"the sense of guilt and fear and loathing towards yourself and be able to accept that you no longer believed?"

My experience was the opposite of yours. When I concluded that it was false, I felt a great psychological burden lifted off me. Sorta like coming out of a long illness or depression. It was like solving a puzzle or a mystery that had stumped me for years---just a very satisfying emotional feeling. It made me happy when I realized that I was no longer obligated to do all the church "busy work" I'd been doing for 24 years.

A statement I adopted while I was studying my way out was "The church only makes sense if it isn't true." Meaning, all of the contradictions, all of Joseph Smith's immoral and illegal actions, the sad legacy of polygamy, the lack of inspiration of church leaders, etc., could be explained by my simply concluding that the church isn't true.

And if the church isn't true, that's the church's fault, not yours. So you shouldn't feel any fear, guilt, or loathing. You should feel free.

randyj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
A statement I adopted while I was studying my way
> out was "The church only makes sense if it isn't
> true."

Very perceptive. I've never really thought of it that way, but you are so right. This is probably the best evidence of its falsehood.

"Very perceptive. I've never really thought of it that way, but you are so right. This is probably the best evidence of its falsehood."

Thank you. That was my epiphany. One issue in particular: you know how church leaders say that the gospel is beautiful and cohesive and everything fits together, etc. It dawned on me that that simply isn't true. There are all these disjointed parts to Mormonism. Like, the BOM has nothing about temple marriage, proxy work, or polygamy, etc. And the BOA doesn't fit much of anything. I began to realize that it was all just a thrown-together hodge-podge of stuff. The most logical explanation is that it isn't true.

Another issue is the BOM contradictions. For instance, the apologists can speculate that "Maybe the horses were deer or tapir," but the more logical explanation is that the BOM is a fake, and that's why it mentioned horses when there were no horses in ancient America.

Same with polygamy. You don't have to come up with all of these lame justifications for why Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. You just have to conclude that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and he concocted polygamy so he could have sex with other women.

Every contradiction and controversy re: Mormonism can be resolved by simply accepting that it's not true.

And that, in my mind, is the best proof. Once you let yourself fully consider the idea that the entire church is built on a con, then suddenly, everything makes sense. All the different pieces that you could never make fit together, now fit together.

It is so simple once you see it. That is why exmos get so frustrated with TBMs whose lives are made so hard by the demands of the church, but who simply refuses to even consider the one simple idea that maybe it isn't true.

The problem being for many of them is that they have been committed for so long and so deeply, that to recognize it simply isn't true is too much of a mental disconnect. It requires them to admit to themselves and others that most, if not all, of their life has been dedicated to a sham and they have allowed themselves be duped. Rather than face this, they continue on hoping and praying that it's really true.

The authorities say that most victims of money scams never report them because it is too difficult to fully face the truth.

A long time ago when I was also anxious and fearful about it, I locked myself in a room for a few hours and prayed, meditated, and wrestled with it. I ended up talking to some of the other versions of god that I had heard others believed in. I sought their protection and allegiance.

It was a way to address the non rational parts of my mind that were in turmoil. I walked out of that room feeling safe, and sensing closure with Mormonism.

All the logical advice you get here won't necessarily connect with the irrational parts of us that make us so human. Can you find an activity that engages and satisfies your emotions?

"the sense of guilt and fear and loathing towards yourself"

is nothing more than the effect of a lifetime of intensive indoctrination by a totalitarian authority cult. The brainwashing begins as a defenseless child, which is why it's so difficult for many to break free. Continue to study and learn at your own pace to rid yourself of the guilt and fear. Take as much time as you need; the church will be just as fraudulent in a year or five as it is now.

Your family probably will take it hard. They are to be pitied, having neither the curiosity to discover the truth or the integrity to follow it. But you, possessing both, have shown yourself to be stronger than they are. Show them that there is a life outside of Mormonism by living for yourself and living it well.

the sense of guilt and fear and loathing towards yourself and be able to accept that you no longer believed?

Interestingly, I never developed those traits.Totally escaped me, completely: no guilt, no shame, no fear, no loathing. None. (I do have a fear of some heights though!). (Guilt, in my understanding was good for just long enough to recognize you messed up and you need to fix the mess)

I was a convert from Old Fashioned Christianity of the same time period, with, at least, three generations of ministers, two I knew. I didn't grow up with those traits around me or preached around me, nor did I absorb any of them from my many decades in Mormonism.

I knew almost immediate, in my studies, originally in around 1998-99 that there was absolutely nothing wrong with me. I was OK all along. I did not need to be fixed. I did not make some major error either. It was the core claims that kept giving me the sense that there was "something wrong with this picture," The core was not reliable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2015 01:55AM by SusieQ#1.

There doesn't need to be any fear or self loathing when you leave the church. The opposite of being a TBM isn't being an athiest or someone who lacks faith or beliefs. The opposite of being a TBM is to have your own faith and beliefs that exclude the mormon church, or any other belief system that is controlled by others. Leave the church behind. Develop a relationship with god as you understand god, or not. But what you believe or don't believe belongs to you. You should feel good about that and about yourself.

A year or so.

I don't know that I've ever felt too much guilt about Mormonism, except that I doubted my doubts and didn't hit the exits further. The most damage I did to anyone as part of my Mormon experience was to myself. I allowed the LDS Church's teaching's to sap my self-confidence and pretzel my brain into believing things that were not true.

However, I think it helps to consider what a person is up against to resist Mormonism. It can include a person's entire family, surrounding culture (to a greater or lesser extent), millions of other followers, and a corporation with billions of dollars at its disposal to peddle its deception. That's a lot to be up against and insist that you are right, and the herd is wrong.

You've been indoctrinated and manipulated by cult psychology techniques since childhood. Have patience my friend....it slowly fades (hopefully) like other traumas in our lives.

Don't be so hard on yourself because Mormonism has consumed your life up to this point as Mormonism is very consumming! The cult keeps you way, way busy obeying and thinking and doing what it tells you needs to be done. All of a sudden you find yourself daring to think differently, and it does feel alienating. You ask yourself who this person is inside of me.

You have been seriously indoctrinated. Look this up on the internet to help you understand the depth of this in shaping your life. Change away from indoctrination will take time. Remember you spent years, months, and days being trained to be who you are now, and it will take time to build and internalize a new you. And, everyone moves at their own pace, which is just fine. You are in a race with no one. Change will happen.

Be patient and loving with yourself. Sending (((hugs))).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 12:28AM by presleynfactsrock.

My biggest fear... well, not that the church's teachings and principles were true; but they may still have had the priesthood and keys. I wasn't worried about what family or friends would say. I jut knew the church wasn't true.

My faith crisis happened not from the internet, but rather from reading of my old pioneer families journals and such. I found B.Y. was not a prophet and was 100% jerk and a**Hole. Yet I felt that even though fallen and misguided as the leader were they and I still held this "Magical" priesthood. I actually had a fear that I wouldn't be able to heal, baptize, bless, etc... because I wouldn't have the priesthood.

It was then that I started reading Tanner's site, lds-mormon site, etc... I started reading Fawn Brodie, Todd Compton, Michael Quinn, etc... It was then that instead of just a few sites, but hundreds of sites with pictures and copies of actual historical documents appeared on websites (I'm thinking about 2004 was when scanning became possible or at least cheap enough to start loading things). I could see and read the actual diaries and documents.

I hate to admit it but I wouldn't believe a lot of exmormon sites if it was just words typed or opinions---my justification, well isn't that all testimonies and the fake history that appears in church magazines are? Faith promoting stories without proof. So when I actually saw photos of documents signed or the Nauvoo expositor. When actual scientist, sociologists started providing us graphs, charts and stats on suicide, depression and porn usage within Mormon communities, I had already lost my faith, and these were just nails in the coffin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 08:39AM by dydimus.