While I am out of the Morg, my wife still has a pinky toe in and some of our family friends are Mormons. One consistent theme I've experienced is an obsession with money and how much others make and they probably don't pay tithing on that, and they are so rich it makes me sick and they put their priorities on money instead of God, that's why we barely make it and scrape by, etc. etc.

Is this just something that happens in my area? My wife and I don't talk about how much we or other families make, even if we happen to know. Maybe this is a culture or age thing?

Thanks for helping me understand!

It's common among all groups of humans -- nobody wants to feel like they're not measuring up.
It's endemic among mormons. Nobody wants to feel they're not as "blessed" as you are. But if they're MORE "blessed" than you are (make more money), they'll lord it over you 'til the cows come home.

They are driven to be prosperous....and it's tied to worthiness in my opinion....

RB

This, even though it's not flat Joel Osteen. Mormons are promised that the more righteous you are, the more you achieve and earn.

This is in the BoM, this is in "The Windows of Heaven" tithing promises, etc... Your wealth and increase is tied directly to your righteousness.

Because the more money they make the more tithing they can give to the cult. "Send me money send me green heaven you will meet. Make a contribution and you'll get the better seat."

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are driven to be prosperous....and it's tied
> to worthiness in my opinion....
>
> RB


Exactly ^

Mormons consider affluence to be a manifestation of spirituality.

It is too bad they are such sheep with their leadership because if Mormon culture would be more accepting of trade unions, they would all be more affluent.

I still hope for the day when COB workers decide to unionize.

That's one thing that always drove me crazy when I was a member; the member's obsession with money. I thought you were supposed to be poor and give up possessions like "Jesus" said in the New Testament.
Multi-level marketing was another, lol!

And the keeping up with the jones' seems to be out of control in Utah. My recent trip there left me baffled at how many advertisements (mainly billboards and television commercials) there were for:

1) Getting a loan for a house
2) "We buy houses in cash"
3) Bankruptcy legal services
4) Boob jobs/plastic surgery
5) Drive a "manly" truck, not a wimpy one (Which of course cost more)

I suspect these may all be related somehow :) < sarcastic remark for those who don't catch it...

I have lived in Utah for 40 years. I moved here from a small town in Wyoming where there was nothing so we drove 3 hours to Salt Lake for all our shopping. I have been visiting on a regular basis and living in Utah my whole life and the one thing that has always amazed me is the amount of wealthy people that live here. I have always asked myself what the hell do these people do for a living as I drive by mansions or half million dollar houses lined up in these subdivisions that if the whole subdivision went up in flames it would cost half the national debt to rebuild and always wondered what they do for money.

Well that question has partly been answered for me. I have been associated over the years with a good many fast talkers/conmen who were without exception mormon and all in high standings like SPs.I have been screwed by the most religious of them and I know for fact that many of them use their positions in the church to scandal money out of members.

As for the "keeping up with the Jones's" mentality it exists and in spades. Boob jobs, cars, 4 wheelers, boats, you name it and they have to have it. My neighbor across the street just built his home about three years ago. He is probably around 30 with one little tiny child. He has a new fancy truck, a Polaris 4 seat Razor, a brand new boat about 35 feet, a new BMW car that his wife drives, and a brand new Harley Davidson that he bought last summer and has not driven one time that I have seen. I see new cars in driveways all the time in my quaint little Spanish Fork neighborhood and although I have not set foot in a church in over ten years I still hear about this one getting a new something or other and suddenly a week or two later that person has a better or bigger or fancier one of what they were just talking about.

It is sad but I am so tired of all the self righteousness and two faced liars around here that if it weren't for certain personal issues I would move out of this place in a heart beat!!!

Dontchaknow that righteous, obedient, rule-following members are choice in God's site and because of this they are rewarded by God with PROSPERITY.

Just look at who usually becomes a bishop and stake president in the areas of the cult. Those who have plenty of money which they either earned or inherited. Often they are successful businessmen, doctors, dentists, engineers, etc. who are picked by the cult so they can be made examples of those worthy to hold such offices.

Because for them, how much a person makes is a direct correlation with how much God is rewarding them, and how righteous they are.

If they are making more than someone, it means they are more righteous and God is either rewarding them and/or punishing the other person.

Of course if a non/nevermo makes more than them, it means that person is being tempted by the Adversary.

How ever would they know how to treat you?

about the people they perceive make "too much" or "crazy loaded" relative to them. My wife and I save 1/3 of our income and live on the rest, which means we show outwardly very differently than most people our age. It makes me wonder if they only knew, how would they treat us differently? Would they stop being our "friends"? Apparently, because they say things like "I'd never be able to be friends with them because they make $xxx.

Weird. Just weird.

Last week I was visiting from out of town and I went to the mall where I couldn't help but notice three women walking in front of me. They all wore similar shoes/sandals, identical stretch pants, the same type of gauzy shirt over a tight-fitting t-shirt and had the same or very similar bottle-blonde hairstyles. I immediately thought that it was a group of high-school girls. When they stopped and reversed direction (almost running into me) I noted that they were, in fact a grandmother, mother, and daughter. Three generations adhering to the same styles. I almost laughed out loud.

I just don't see that kind of social gravity pulling people from different generations like that.

of "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without"?

Isn't that a Mormon thing? Or is it just a thing outside of UT?

make some joke about this referencing the baby-making parts, but I'd probably offend...

Actually that old saw about "use it up, etc" is still very deeply honored among TBM's. The thing is that it is only to be applied to poor(er) people. For the chosen few, it would be unspeakably wrong.

I grew up with some extremely wealthy people (Fortune 500/Cilicon Valley wealthy.)

We used to hand down formal dresses to each other--it was the style to wear a gown only once, but then we would trade. The dresses were lovely, and we were all happy. If I named the names of these girls, you would know them--they are that famous.

They wore practical, classic clothes.

Not one ever had any plastic surgery, except one had a fact life, after she was about 55 years old. No boob jobs.

These girls had babysitting jobs, along with me. They did chores in their homes, helping their mothers with the dishes, cooking, cleaning, gardening, etc. I would say these women were hard-working, but not necessarily blessed with talent or brains. They were good people! The Fortune 500 men were sometimes accused of being miserly--but the accusations came from Mormons trying to get donations, or friends and relatives trying to sell something. My own brother (a grifter) asked for and got a huge loan from one of these men, and the man said my brother didn't need to pay him back. The wealthy man prided himself on his house, which his parents had owned. He could have lived in a mansion, anywhere, but loved his old neighborhood. He would garden, and sweep his driveway. I don't remember any of these people owning any yachts, or driving expensive cars, or wearing Italian suits. They looked like ordinary people. They did have time shares and cabins, but they didn't brag about what they had.

One eligible bachelor married a pretty, talented girl, who was almost at the poverty level. He put her and her two siblings through college, and bought his mother-in-law a new house, closer to him. The very wealthy people I know have always been very careful with their money, and have of course invested it wisely, and I think that is WHY they are still wealthy. They give on their OWN whim. A while ago I received a huge check from one of them, for the charity I work for. I didn't know he even knew about the charity, or about me. No one solicited him--he just gave.

A lot of the show-off Utah Mormon mansion-dwellers are in debt. During the real estate recession, Cottonwood, Pepperwood, and Federal heights were full of For Sale signs. Foreclosures. My friend who works for a loan company says that if a young couple drives up in an overly-expensive vehicle, she can pretty much predict that they won't qualify for a loan.

"Where do they get their money?" you ask. From Mommy and Daddy, and Grandpa and Grandma. Some Mormons had farm land, which they have sold off to developers. My relatives were GA's, and had valuable land in downtown SLC, and Canada, and other places. They also did well with Mormon stocks (oil, sugar, bank and financial LDS corporate bonds, etc.)

None of the truly wealthy feel especially "blessed," because they were there, right alongside their ancestors, working themselves almost to death! No average person could keep those hours, and have that dedication.

Interesting post Breeze. I have found that most people with a lot of money don't talk about it or flaunt it.

I've found that to be true as well ....... You'd never know from being around them that they are multi millionaires. It's considered classless to discuss money, at least with the people
I know. They just don't do it.

My TBM mother liked to brag about how much her kids earned. She thought it was a reflection of her mothering skill and that such choice spirits chose her in the preexistence.

My husband refused to tell her his income, so she didn't have the satisfaction in his case. Also, she foolishly assumed I made less money than other teachers because I taught K and first grade which she respected less than middle or high school teaching. I was insulted by that attitude!

My late TBM MIL was not the brightest human but she had figured out I might be making good money. I had a Master of Business Administration degree from the University of California and was a CPA working on Nob Hill in San Francisco.
The last time she ever tried to get anything out of me occurred with her in my car.

TBM: "How much money do you make, Jerry?"

Atheist: "I never discuss my financial matters outside my immediate family."

TBM: "But I'm your Mother-in-Law."

Atheist: "All the more reason to not tell you."

TBM: Silence on that subject with me for all time and eternity.

Pay Lay Alol

Because they "earn" 10%+ less (by their own choice to tithe) than anyone else?

This mentality is not unique to Mormons.

My mother was a devout Christian who couldn't understand why other people in her same neighborhood drove nicer cars and dressed better than she was able to. It was because she and my dad were not great money managers. They earned enough to support us, but made poor decisions about what to buy. They didn't spend frivolously, but we always had dangerous junker cars, for example - and no investments because my mother didn't trust them.

So when a neighbor bought a new car, my mother would huff and shrug and scrunch up her face and remark "well, we spend OUR money on the IMPORTANT things..."

Sour grapes. That's why they care so much - they can't imagine that better life choices and not "blessings" are responsible for someone's wealth. That might mean that they aren't so superior after all.

"Reaping the Rewards of Righteousness"

this is dated 7/2015 so it's still relevant and doctrinal.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/07/reaping-the-rewards-of-righteousness?lang=eng&cid=social_20150716_49251786&adbid=621692447307927552&adbpl=tw&adbpr=14364617

I couldn't finish it once I got to this quote:
"President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) taught that idols can include credentials, degrees, property, homes, furnishings, and other material objects. He said that when we elevate these otherwise worthy objectives in a way that diminishes our worship of the Lord and weakens our efforts to establish His righteousness and perform the work of salvation among Father in Heaven’s children, we have created idols."

Look at some of the big homes and cabins owned by the apostles. They also send their kids to Ivy League schools and I am pretty sure they drive nice newer cars at the tithe payers expense. Those things wouldn't be so bad but, it just shows that they are of the do as I say not as I do mentality. The apostles by this definition are idolaters.

Mormons are modern day Calvinists. They think that your wealth is an indication of your worthiness to God. If you are poor, it's because you are indolent and/or sinful.

If you make a lot of money, it means God showers his blessings upon you. Mittens is rich because he is so virtuous and would do wonders for America as President, not because he is a silver spoon and raids other companies for profit.

this is thankfully becoming less & less true, but many TBMs have WAY more children than they can afford. They don't wait until they're out of college and have insurance because their faith tells them not to wait, so they have 3 kids by the time Dad finishs school and have 3 or 4 more after that, and they struggle and struggle for years on end.

I've met several LDS who've limited their families and waited until more secure to have children and they without fail are quite a bit happier.

I have no problem with large families but large families when you can't afford it is irresponsible. My own dad is from a huge atheist family but his parents could easily afford the 6 kids they had.

We waited to have our kids until my DH was out of college and we had insurance and a car and a good job and we took sooo much flak for that...