Good program this evening on the cult that was Jonestown.

Only a handful of defectors got out alive. Jim Jones was as manipulative as Joseph Smith; although gotta give him credit for being way more evil.

Sick bastard that he was. The people who were sucked into his cult and went to Guyana were held there at gunpoint after arriving.

Some of the defectors are being interviewed all these years later for this program. What a compelling event to have survived.

Jonestown was the largest civilian mass murder in recent American history until 9/11.

Thank you for not calling it a mass suicide. I lost a childhood friend there. He was 8 or 9. I think a third of the victims were children. Murdered.

Very sorry for your loss. That is such a tragedy, even moreso for the children than the grownups.

They had no say in the matter - just pure victims of circumstance.

I didn't know people there, but I knew many that had family and loved ones there. As the news trickled in - I can't even describe it. Jones (or rather those that worked with him) did a lot for the SF community. He knew the right things to say. The right asses to kiss. HE WORKED THE SYSTEM. He was adept at working the political machine. Many thought he was "charismatic" but he just plain skeeved me out. The waiting as the news came in was - beyond words. Even being a removed bystander made an indelible impression on me. One thing I will give my upbringing in LDSInc was I knew there was something very very wrong with him and his group. LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS.

Susan I/S Wrote:
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> I didn't know people there, but I knew many that
> had family and loved ones there. As the news
> trickled in - I can't even describe it. Jones (or
> rather those that worked with him) did a lot for
> the SF community. He knew the right things to
> say. The right asses to kiss. HE WORKED THE
> SYSTEM. He was adept at working the political
> machine. Many thought he was "charismatic" but he
> just plain skeeved me out. The waiting as the
> news came in was - beyond words. Even being a
> removed bystander made an indelible impression on
> me. One thing I will give my upbringing in LDSInc
> was I knew there was something very very wrong
> with him and his group. LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS.

I was practicing TBM at the time of the Jonestown massacre, and remember thinking how awful those people were so easily led to their destruction. Mormons by comparison I don't believe to be quite as gullible as those who followed Jones to their doom. He symbolized to me a leftover fringe group of the 60's hippie movement, that became radicalized and disenfranchised with society to the point of cutting themselves off completely from society.

As *thinking* Mormons we were taught to be "In the world, but not *of* the world." Jim Jones sought to isolate his followers physically and psychologically. Mormons today do not *generally speaking* isolate. However on more personal levels, like separating family members to join the cult, then yes they do.

It was such a sad, horrible story. When I watched the documentary on Jonestown I was struck with how similar their stories were compared to mine in the morg. The cult members used to work full-time and then all of their off time was spent in church callings. They would brag about how little sleep they got. Sound familiar?

It was so sad to hear that how that one cult member "escaped" was by carrying his dead-wife's body to the edge of the woods and then making a break for it in the jungle before anyone could shoot him. So horrible. That could have been early mormonism if Smith had access to poisons.

if he had survived long enough to lead followers to an isolated location under similar conditions where Jones directed his worst deeds.

Jim Jones was a highly respected clergyman for years in San Francisco. He was credited for turning lives around and helping the poor and received awards and money from the public. At that time he covered his evil side and mistreated people when he could get away with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 05:12AM by Susan I/S.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> if he had survived long enough to lead followers
> to an isolated location under similar conditions
> where Jones directed his worst deeds.


Agreed. Very similar evil people. JS plans were cut short, and he didn't have the same means to move his flock to the middle of a jungle on a different continent, though he certainly sought to create an isolated commune.

They both wanted to rule and live off of others, did not want to abide by law or social mores, and both used privately "devine powers" as authority.

Both were anti-social con-men. JS just lacked the avenue of escape that Jones had.

have sex with, and own, children.

I suppose we are lucky that we ended up with Brigham Young rather than Jim Jones. Both tangled with the US government, but Brigham Young chose guerrilla warfare and diplomacy, while Jim Jones chose murder and suicide. If Brigham Young had lead all the Mormons to kill themselves, many of us here never would have been born.

in 1857 just before the Mountain Meadows Massacre, with the army ready to replace him as governor, Brigham Young had the Saints ready to burn their homes and head for the hills. Who knows what he might have done under the same pressure that Jim Jones was under.

This is why I say that the Mormon pioneers are similar to those who followed Jim Jones, as it could be said that those pioneers who died on the trek died for Brigham Young. Still, the experiences of the Mormons who settled in Utah pales in comparison to the Jonestown tragedy, since I don't think Brigham Young was capable of ordering his followers to murder their children before taking their own lives. If he did that, many people alive today would never have been born.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 03:43PM by adoylelb.

Yeah, good insights shared by all.

Our *cult* experience compared to theirs was *gentler and kinder* by comparison than what those poor souls suffered at the hands of Jim Jones.

Maybe Joseph Smith would've gotten crazier, but he wasn't as insane or as predisposed to commit murder and carnage as the other. Jim Jones was buying a pound of cyonide a month for six months leading up to the poisoning deaths in his compound in Guyana, which indicates the pre-meditation and planning that went into his mass murder.