Seriously this is what I heard the last speaker in sacrament meeting say.

I had to give the closing prayer in sacrament meeting (and was sweating bullets on how bland to make it) when the speaker seriously said this.

He didn't care what science and history says about Joseph Smith and the BoM.

WHAT?!?! I really couldn't believe i

Well, sure! It's the Truman Show syndrome. Even if it's not true, it better than all the other not true stuff out there!

Well, at least he's honest. Better than an apologist in my eyes.

I guess that's true.

I love that one.

Facts optional! Only facts agreeing with Mormon teachings need apply!

I also like when they say that someday science will catch up to what the church already knows.

I believe the earth is a flat disc resting on the back of a giant tortoise. Amen.

Hey...my son got me hooked on those books. Great stuff, and as believable as...oh well.

it's a turtle, you heretic.

. . . who was shot to death while being held in jail for the arson-fueled destruction of a critic's printing press.

Science says that Joe's wild claims regarding Book of Mormon artifacts such as native horses in the Americas, human-operated chariots in the Americas and steel weapons in the Americas are total fabrications.

Mormonism says that you should just believe as you're told, not what the facts say.

Mormonism says that it's not a cult.

The facts say that Mormonism is lying and fabricating.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 07:11PM by steve benson.

very concise

At least that gives you an idea that pointing out facts and science isn't going to get through to that person.

Though I wonder what will (if anything)...

It is not true that pointing out facts would not convince the person. How would anyone know? There's a gag-order about facts, and that's not the fault of the person who spews nonsense. The rule in the meeting is that anyone can say anything that supports the church, no matter how silly it is. But no one may assert that the church find its support in reality. However, to so insist would make the organization more honest.

If someone said, "I don't care about history or science!" The next speaker should say, "Well I do care about history and science. If something is true, both science and history should support it." Simply saying that would force the church to apply critical thinking to its teachings. The fact that people attending the meetings say, "It's unbelievable that anyone would say that!;" but are completely unable to contradict, demonstrates a cult.

Sheeple are not people who believe what everyone else believes. sheeple are people who are afraid of distinguishing themselves from a group, so they keep their actual beliefs to themselves. The people self-censor, then complain because the organization has become so risk-averse.

Isn't the BoM a history book on supposedly the family of Lehi over a 1,000 year period and journey from the Old World to the Promised land?

Doesn't the BoM have some points of science in them, like making plates and a ship and building a city or two, or strategizing war which never seems to end? No the BoM doesn't include the usual methodologies we associate with the scientific process in our day, but the morg claimed BoM was an ancient text, so science will manifest itself differently.

I'm not defending the BoM, but just responding to the attitude of the person who shut out history and science in his/her assessment of facts, evidence, truth. Truth is not one sided but multi-sided, where anyway you turn or look, you can see clearly, JS was a fraud and so is the book he claimed to wait, was it translate, or copy, or make-up, or something else? Denial personified.

Huh ?

The BoM is a work of fiction and any history and science in it is not real. The evidence doesn't support it. Therefore when JS or OC or whoever wrote the book and told stories that, for example, Nephi building a ship was written within the narrative of the Lord told him to do it and instructed Nephi on how to do that, etc. To think of the scientific process of building a ship and comparing what's written in 1st Nephi, it won't make sense unless the reader accepts the first part of the narrative, i.e., the Lord told him to do it and how. Therefore, the history and science is seen differently because it's embedded in the Lord said such and such. It's one thing to be lied to by the morg, and another thing to be lied to by the Lord. The BoM is clear, the Lord cannot lie. That is true if a person believes in the Lord. The morg counts on the reader or member believing in the Lord and to accept their version of events in the BoM. The name of the Lord is written in the BoM every 1.5 verses. It's brain washing of the worst kind.
Therefore, the morg's version of science will manifest itself differently than what is really true.
This is, I sense one reason out of many why some members are struggling to see the truth about the lies the morg told, they cannot reconcile the lies from the prophets who they were told speaks for the Lord, and their personal experiences with the Lord.
I hope I answered your concern.

And after the member reconciles between prophets who lie vs the Lord who cannot lie, then the member has to deal with the pit in their stomach because of all the $ given in tithes that is gone and cannot be refunded, and the thousands of hours donated and wasted, and how everything he/she did and didn't do will not get them a mansion in CK, and how they thought they were telling the truth on their mission, yet they passed on the lies they got from the prophets and BoM. When they realize that grace is key and we can't work our way to heaven, what are they supposed to do with all their anger and grief? It may be suppressed so their feelings doesn't lead them to contention, which 3rd Nephi claims is of the devil. So it's not surprising that the person in sacrament meeting doesn't want to deal with these issues and the overwhelming task of building a new life based on truth.

But wait. Even if one were to accept that the Lord built the ship, then handed the ship over, still you would expect to find the reminants of something about ships. And maybe ships are a bad example. Go with weaponry, say. Even if how the weapons were forged--no steel, no process of smelting consistent with science--and God just handed down the weaponry, reminants of it should be found somewhere. DNA should be found somewhere. Even if the material was just handed from outside, like delivered from God, traces of it should remain--like earth-junk orbiting space.

If Mormons just believe that the stuff appears by God and then God takes it all back when the story's over, that's not "truth" by any stretch, that's Santa's eleves. In which case, the attitude of everyone should be that adults believing in the tooth-fairy simply must be disabused of their delusions, lest they pass those delusions on to their progeny in their ignorance.

my mind is made up.

And they said I left TSCC because I was lazy. Can't get any lazier than that. Just believe. Don't think.

then the MORmONS need to abide by their MORmONIC pledge and stay the Hell OFF of modern media which science has provided to us, instead of always being in people's faces attempting to promote their brain dead STUPID MORmONISM via the Modern Scientifically Provided Media.

As I have often said:

You can lead a Saint to knowledge, but you can't make him think!

Science and History are the tools of the devil--make no mistake about that!

HOWEVER, when the Mormons find one little tidbit of science or history that even remotely supports their position as the one true church or casts a shadow of validity on the BoM, they suddenly will be jumping up and down and waving that tidbit around like a new lottery winner.

" I don't care what science and history says...

...because God."


That just about covers it.