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What would you like to talk about?

Now chatting with Elysse
J
Hi, I'm what you might call an "investigator". I'm meeting with the local missionaries to learn about your church, but there are certain questions about Mormonism they really don't want to talk about, but I still need answers. Can you answer a few of of my questions about Mormon scriptures please?
8:35 AM

E
We are here to help as much as we can. We don't know everything about everything but we will do our best to answer your questions! :)
8:35 AM

J
So there are a lot of references in Mormon scriptures that talk about God turning the Lamanites and descendents of Cain's skin black because of their sins, and white again when they repent. Is that something you believe God really did to those people?
8:36 AM

A
Yes, that is something I believe He did to them. I don't know all the reasons why He chose to do so, or if there is some symbolic meaning to His actions, but there is always a purpose to everything God does, and it is always for our eternal benefit.
8:39 AM

J
So if God is the same yesterday as he is today, why didn't he turn Hitler and the Nazis as black as coal and why didn't he turn MLK white as a ghost?
8:40 AM
Or is Today's God different from God back in the day?

E
I do not know. I do know that everything God does is for a reason but I do not know that one. I look forward to the day when I can ask Him though. I have found a lot of peace in just knowing that God knows everything and whatever happens happens. I trust that everything will work out in the end.
8:43 AM

J
Yeah, it makes no sense and is more likely 19th Century racist myths used to justify slavery and genocide against the native population, that Joseph Smith mistook for 'the Word of God" which makes me wonder which God he was receiving 'revelation' from?
8:44 AM
Do you believe the figure 7, in facismille 2, in the Book of Abraham really represents God?

E
One minute and we will look at it.
8:46 AM

A
That is what the Egyptians believed represented God, and that is why they drew it. It is so wonderful to know that God has a plan for us, and that He given us the scriptures so that we may know of His will and doctrine.
8:50 AM

J
The inscription says that it represents God. Egyptologists, those who know how to read Egyptian Heirogylphics say that it represents one God in particular, the pagan fertility God Min, who was typically represented sexually aroused and fully erect, as he has been in Mormon scriptures.since the late 70's. Why did the church decide to depict a representation of God with an erection in the late 70's in your scriptures? Isn't that kind of blasphemous?
8:52 AM

E
This is where I don't know. But I do know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is perfect. The people might not be, interpretations might not be, But the church itself is. I'm sorry we couldn't address your question directly but I do know that the Book of Mormon was written by prophets of God and it is true.
8:55 AM

J
So the Book of Abraham, including the picture of a fully erect pagan God Min, is inspired by God?
8:55 AM
Who hated the Egyptian Gods?
And told the Jews not to worship the Gods of Egypt, he's the same God who said, "That's me!" to Joseph?

E
I really don't know how to answer that question I'm sorry. would you like us to transfer you to someone that might be able to answer it better?
8:57 AM

J
Sure.
8:57 AM

E
Okay thank you for getting on chat. It was nice to talk with you. I will transfer you.
8:58 AM

J
thank you
8:58 AM
Does Abby Lynn have an answer?

J
hello? anybody there?
9:02 AM

Now chatting with Miles

Now chatting with Miles
M
Hello John!
9:04 AM
How are you doing today?

J
Fine.
9:08 AM
How are you Miles?
I just had some questions before I join your church.

M
I'm doing awesome thanks!
9:09 AM
I've been reading through your conversation previously. I would love to answer questions you have.

J
I read LDS.org in a paper titled "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo" that Joseph Smith had 34 wives, 11 of whom were teenagers as young as 14 and 13 of whom were married to other men. How is that possible if there never was a law that permitted any man to claim another man's wife as his own?
9:10 AM

M
Yes, that's somewhat correct. If I could clarify a few things, that would be awesome!
9:11 AM

J
sure, please start by clarifying what law allowed JS to claim his follower's wives as his own.
9:12 AM

M
Okay
9:12 AM
Simply put, there is a difference between marriage and sealings. To be sealed is to be united together. I'm sealed to my parents and sibblings. More commonly understood is that sealings are also used in marriage between a husband and wife. Joseph Smith was sealed to other men's wives, but not married to them. There is a difference there.
9:13 AM
Sealings are also done on behalf of those who have passed away. Part of those 34 women, you have mentioned were actually women who were no longer alive.
As for the 14 year old, who you referred to, she was one who Joseph Smith was sealed to, but not in the marriage sense. There is no evidence that Joseph Smith had a sexual relationship with this young girl.
9:15 AM

J
He made wives out of his follower's wives. So did Brigham Young. Take Zina Huntington Jacobs, wife of Henry Jacobs, whom she never divorced, but she was 'married' to both Joseph and Brigham, while she was still really married to Henry Jacobs. Brigham fathered a child with her, after sending poor Henry off on a mission to England and stealing his whole family and destroying his life.
9:17 AM
Oliver Cowdery testified that he witnessed Joseph Smith in a 'Dirty, Nasty, Filthy affair with Fanny Alger" Joseph and Emma's 16 yo housemaid, 10 years prior to recieving D&C 132, was he lying?
9:18 AM

M
John, I can clarify all of these these things, but the vibe that I'm getting from you is that you feel you already know what I believe if not more. There is truth to what you say, but it's all very twisted. For example, Joseph Smith was married to Fanny Alger based on what historical evidences we have—so it was a polygamous relationship, to be sure, but I wouldn't classify it as an affair. Oliver Cowdery also returned back to the church after that. I've heard all of these questions many times and this isn't anything new or Earth shattering to me.
9:22 AM
Today I would like to focus on the spiritual matters—if you are looking for the historical things, I would recommend the Joseph Smith papers or fairmormon.org

J
you still have not answered my first question to you, where is the law that allowed JS and BY to claim their follower's wives as their own and to make babies with them? It doesn't exist. Therefore, they committed adultery.
9:24 AM

M
Make babies with them? John, I have given you two great resources. It's interesting to me that you have 'questions' when in your last statement, you expressed a very harsh opinion about something that we don't know much about.
9:25 AM

J
Yeah, google Zina Huntington Jacobs. Look on Wkipedia, its all there.
9:26 AM
The church lionizes her, calling her Zina Huntington Young. She cheated on her husband with two successive Prophets, and she gets called an "Angel of Mercy" by the Mormon church?

M
Yes, wikipedia, always has perfect information. If you want to look at the cold hard facts, I would check out what's recorded by those who knew Joseph Smith, and Joseph Smith him self on those two sites.
9:27 AM

J
She was NEVER married to Brigham Young or Joseph Smith, she was only married to Henry Jacobs! Why does the church continue to claim she was married to them when there never was a law that allowed them to claim her as their wife, when she already had a husband.
9:28 AM

M
So if you know all of these things based on the accuracy of wikipedia, why are you here pretending to have questions?
9:29 AM
I mean,
if you don't like our beliefs, then I would recommend that you enjoy the summer, while it's here. By all means, don't waste your time with us today!

J
I read Tood Compton's In Sacred Loneliness, which the church references in their paper. He's a faithful Mormon. He said the same thing. And he concludes that Joseph's relationship with Zina and the others was sexual.
9:29 AM
I just asked a question I need answered, where's the law that allowed that kind of perverted and highly illegal and immoral behavior?

M
That's not a question... you stated earlier "It doesn't exist. Therefore, they committed adultery."
9:31 AM

J
If it doesn't exist, you're singing the praises of an adulterer.
9:31 AM
So where's the church's defense of that kind of well documented behavior, was it right or wrong behavior?

M
This is weird John that you are asking questions you have answers to. Seriously, you didn't know Joseph Smith or what he did. And you are also grossly misinformed. I've given you some direction to find answers. Thank you for your time. Have a good one.
9:31 AM

The chat session has ended

You got owned, koriwhore. Miles is right, get outside and enjoy the summer. Stop being a troll.

Right now its 50mph winds where i live, but thanks for your time management advice. I'll take it under consideration.
Uh no. Bite me
I got owned? What are you a Morgbot?
Hah!
They obviiusly have no defense for this abusive CULT behavior, except for the idiots who defend the worlds biggest army of CULT recruiters!,
lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 02:27PM by koriwhore.

You said <<Yet again, the representatives of the church have no defense for Joe's Myth>>

ette Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You got owned, koriwhore. Miles is right, get
> outside and enjoy the summer. Stop being a troll.

Ette is right. Miles owned you.

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish? I have asked that question on a few of your posts......no answer.

Miles said <<So if you know all of these things based on the accuracy of wikipedia <<that one is kind of funny>> , why are you here pretending to have questions? I mean, if you don't like our beliefs, then I would recommend that you enjoy the summer, while it's here. By all means, don't waste your time with us today!>>

I think there's a yellow sticky note at Missionary Youth Operations Proseltyzing Internet Center (MYOPIC) that says "Don't engage in Zina questions!"

In the history books.
But its not just dismissable as ancient history, go read at farms.com, they have all the answers! Lol
since its still in their own GD scriptures and they still expect you to sing the praises of a man no better than Warren Jeffs?
His followers use the same defense of his actions, "Well, the BoM is true, therefore anything Joseph Smith did was good in the sight of God! The PRofit cannot do anything that was not commanded by God or he would have been struck down by God, even if its raping underage girls and women who are legally married to his followers."
I admit its a perverted sex cult and these drones are just following their programing, but when these Agent Smiths pass me off to their programmer, i'd expect some answers, not denials of history produced by their programmers.
My theory is that these are just robots, who get put on tge front lines, to shuekd the PRetend "Authorities" from having to oroduce anything authoritative on the subject.
They put these Agent Smith drines through the refiners fire to test their loyalty, and most of them pass with flying colors.
By the end if this discussion I had 3 of the "almost 90,000" MORoN Sex CULT recruiters lying, defending everything from extreme racism, believing Hod actually turns people black when they sin and white when they repent, child rape, wife swapping, and saying a pornographic depiction of a pagan Fertility God, represents God was inspired by the same God who commanded us not to worship other Gods, especially the pagan Gods of the Egyptian slave masters.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 02:22PM by koriwhore.

awesome koriho, I liked how you went from cult racism with the first 2, and when they passed you to "someone that might be able to answer it better" [ who was monitoring ] you hit em with cult polygamy and boy did he ever "clarify" things for me, f*ck those cultist, it's not trolling when it's historical fact

These are awesome. Not Mormon missionary, overused awesome, but legitimately awe-inspiring.

For example: Poor Elysse says she does not know why God does certain things, but in the next breath proclaims that everything he does "has a purpose" and is for "our eternal benefit."

How does she know this? Because God said so?

The problem here is--if God does things that seem "evil" because they actually have a higher, "good" purpose but we cannot possibly fathom what that purpose is, then God is inexplicable to humans by definition. If God is inexplicable to humans, then we have no way of knowing whether everything he does is actually for our benefit when he says they are, and thus have no reason to trust him. Any supposed assurance from God that we can trust him would be dubious since we cannot trust anything he says.

I wonder if these missionaries would even be able to wrap their heads around that.

I don't know what's worse:

1. That you have this hobby of harassing the online missionaries. The Church may have bought suck into your life as is the experience of many who post here. None of that is the direct fault of the people you are harassing.

2. That you think sharing the outputs of this hobby here makes you seem significant or clever. In the ones I have read the missionaries always seem to get the better of you.

3. That there are people here who encourage you in this.

I really hope you can put this aside and find a more constructive use of your time an energy.