Long night of insomnia - had a thought pop into my head I'm not sure how it would play out with a TBM. I am sure my lack of sleep, time of night, etc. have kept me from seeing the true logic to my idea -- so please forgive me in advance for my crazyness.

If so - what if you would pose the following to a TBM:

"Hey Joe - as a mormon you believe that you can some day be a god of your own world - right?

"yes"

"Ok, and when you become a god of your own world you would have rule over it to do as you wish just as you believe your god has over this world - right?"

"yes"

"Ok - then lets say you become a god of your own world -- would you allow such things as child molestation, rape, murder to happen in your world? Please do not use the "everyone has free agency bullshit because remember - your are god - you can do as you wish"

What kind of answer would you expect?

"If" they responded with "No I would not" -- then my comment would be "Then why does your god allow it in this world?"

I am sure they would do their typical song and dance around the subject, but just curious on what you think.

I guess gods are like parents. Every god tries to be a better god to his people than his own god and not repeat his mistakes.

But no, that's not how a TBM would put it.

The Mormon God cannot do anything he wishes. He is bound by natural law, just like everyone else. Evil happens because agency exists, and agency is not optional, it is an inherent part of the system.

The Mormon view is that God can do anything that can be done, not that he can do anything. So in this particular case, they do have a passably coherent answer yo your objection.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> The Mormon God cannot do anything he wishes.
> He is
> bound by natural law, just like everyone else.

Well, besides screwing his spirit daughter after she had become a mortal with his own very physical body, in order to physically sire Jesus, AND having that daughter remain a virgin in spite of the very literal sexual penetration......... and the other (billion) special exemptions in MORmON doctUrine......

But yah, that IS what the dumb ass MORmONS teach.

you see, out of ultimate respect for Free Agency, in the premortal existence, MORmON Heaven Father God allowed a third of his spiritual children to follow Satan and wander off to permanent un reversable condemnation. Because that is how a MORmON god operates. Then after mortality was in progress, MORmON God saw a need for his latter day prophet to be practicing polygamy (really adultery) and OF COURSE Joe Smith did not want to do it, so even in a universe of FREE AGENCY, MORmON God was compelled to compel Prophet Joe Smith to practice polygamy.

You see MORmON God will force no man to heaven, But he will force certain men to Rape teen age girls, just as He was compelled to nail the virgin Mary to sire a physical body for His son MORmON Jesus, and even though He will not force any body to go to Heaven, He will certainly allow anybody to go to Hell forever.

It is not crappy parenthood, its MORmON god hood.

It is not god hood with out complete volition, even though that is exactly what it is, even though Free Agency is the Ultimate and premier principle of the universe, it is MORmON god hood.


It all makes sense! .....to MORmONS!!!

Just have a MORmON explaniate it, until it makes sense !!!

They also believe that he can change people's skin color and strike people dumb at any time. He doesn't seem to be bound by any natural law.

I wouldn't expect a member of any church to reply that THEY would do things differently from God. It would be like saying they knew more than God or were better than God and I doubt any believer would let those words come out of their mouth.

Why does God allow anything? Including creation?

I don't see him as such a micro-manager of people's lives.

And I don't see him through the lens of Mormonism either.

Whatever God represents I do believe his ways are not our ways. And that what we sow, we will each reap whether in this world, or world to come.

The evil in men's hearts is a force we have to deal with, on a personal scale.

The old native Indian proverb comes to mind with which wolf you feed is the one that will prosper.

Whether that be evil, or good.

If we could stop all the evil in the world, would that make us godlike? Or petty tyrants?

If God truly loves us, why does he allow for evil? Perhaps his love is more impersonal than ours is. He sees things from a distance, and it gets back to his ways are not our ways.

On the other hand why then do some experience miracles of healing, and/or faith experiences not seen by others?

Is it God's will bad things happen? I don't believe so. Why things happen often times there is no rational answer or purpose.

Not even God is a dictator.

My cousin, Max Born, believed as a Deist - neither Christian or agnostic. He saw God as impersonal, as someone who throws the dice here on this planet, and allows things to happen as they may, for better or worse. He also lived through two World Wars, and saw the carnage inflicted upon his own family, as a fellow Jew. He had left Judaism as a young man, but didn't turn his back on his relatives. Although some of my cousins believe that he did.

He lived by his own convictions.

Why wouldn't he reply, "God's are also subject to eternal law. And the law of agency is what makes Me God because if the only people who love and obey Me are those forced to do so, I'm not really worth much as a God, am I."

They TEACH "free agency", but that's not what I see.
Using FEAR and GUILT is a type of force used to control others.
Using BRIBES is another (Heavenly rewards BESTOWED only by God).
Logical or natural consequences are rarely spoken of.

evilBastard Wrote:
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> "Ok, and when you become a god of your own world
> you would have rule over it to do as you wish just
> as you believe your god has over this world -
> right?"

I was taught that if we became gods we would have to follow the exact same plan that Elohim had to follow so that all the worlds without number functioned the same way. Elohim became a god via perfect obedience to pre-existing eternal laws, and he continues to do so, or else he would cease to be a god. Those eternal laws include how to create and run your worlds without end. In other words, Elohim and all the other gods are franchisees.

Of course, I was taught this back in the days when they still taught deep doctrine and the mysteries. Who knows what Mormons are supposed to believe about it now, since it's never talked about anymore.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2015 02:47PM by Stray Mutt.

Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was taught that if we became gods we would have
> to follow the exact same plan that Elohim had to
> follow so that all the worlds without number
> functioned the same way. Elohim became a god via
> perfect obedience to pre-existing eternal laws,
> and he continues to do so, or else he would cease
> to be a god. Those eternal laws include how to
> create and run your worlds without end. In other
> words, Elohim and all the other gods are
> franchisees.

That sounds like hell to me. Hell with incessant conjugal visits.

Who makes (made) up these laws? Nobody ever learn from their mistakes??

Yeah. It certainly didn't put godhood high on my list of goals.

Wow! That sounds awful! What a grim future that seems to be. How could anyone really want to do that?

I tried asking at chat.mormon.org. N.b. for my personal safety, I chose to use then Elizabeth, rather than my real name.


Now chatting with Megan
M
Hello Elizabeth, how can we help you?
12:00 PM

E
As a mormon, you believe that you can some day be a god of your own world. Is that correct?
12:01 PM

A
Hello Elizabeth :) well we have no official church doctrine on that, prophets have suggested and speculated that but it has not been made official doctrine from our church. But I do know that God is the father of our spirits and he loves us!
12:04 PM

E
Oh, that surprises me, but thank you for your answer. Bye
12:05 PM

M
Would you like to know more about our faith?
12:05 PM
If you are representative of our church who live in your area would love to come and tell you more :)
12:07 PM
Would you be interested in that?

E
Not wishing to be rude, but that is why I asked the original question. I know about JS claiming to transalate some Au plates. I have to say myself, it sounds a lot like a child claiming that the dog ate his homework. Moreover, the transalation of the Book of Abraham has been shown to be a complete fraud. I am not sure what anyone could say to me now.
12:09 PM

M
Have you ever read the book of mormon?
12:10 PM

E
I have read the first 2 lines, and so much felt that I ought not to be reading this that I didn't go any further. In any case, I understand that most of your er distinctive doctrines are not to be found in the book of Mormon, so there does not seem to be a lot of point. As I said previously, a lot of JS claims seem to be like a child claiming the dog ate his homework. For example, the Au plates are not available for inspection. Given JS character, I think it is as likely the plates never existed. Or some of his MS were stolen and he said that God would not allow a retraslation. To me it sounds like he never translated it in the first place and hence could not re-produce the affected pages.

Megan and Elizabeth disconnected without further comment.