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In talking to my friends who were beaten as children it often seems like there is a sexual component to the beating.
I was just talking to a friend who's mother singled her out, from 3 daughters, for nightly beating in the garage. None of the other children or the father believed her when she told them what was happening. Neither did they investigate. My friend was the father's favorite. She left home at 13.
People say that the parent is venting their frustrations but I can only understand that intellectually. I really don't get it.
It seems like there is some other agenda playing out when you enjoy beating a child.
I was just talking to a friend who's mother singled her out, from 3 daughters, for nightly beating in the garage. None of the other children or the father believed her when she told them what was happening. Neither did they investigate. My friend was the father's favorite. She left home at 13.
People say that the parent is venting their frustrations but I can only understand that intellectually. I really don't get it.
It seems like there is some other agenda playing out when you enjoy beating a child.
I was physically abused growing up, and I have ALWAYS (even when I was years pre-pubescent) thought there was a sexual component to it (from BOTH of my parents).
You mean like some sort of sadomasochistic aspect going on there? I highly doubt it. Child of the late 60's and early 70's here, and I guarantee you whenever my mom spanked me w/ the paddle (or whatever she could grab), the only thing on her mind was making my little butt sting for whatever I had done. I would imagine most parents are just mad and frustrated. These days, any physical punishment is "abuse." Nightly beatings even in the 70's was abuse. By and large, most parents, in my opinion, have no sexual component to their discipline.
I almost never was physically punished as a child, and when I or my sibs was, my dad always said "This hurts me more than it does you!" And you know, even then I could see that what was saying was true.
A swat on the fanny to get the child's attention when she is endangering herself by running into the street is a totally different thing than the ritualistic beatings described above.
The other kind of beating comes from a differrent place. It is not related to anything the child has done.
Why do child rapists do what they do? It is related to power and subjugation. That's the place those beatings come from.
A swat on the fanny to get the child's attention when she is endangering herself by running into the street is a totally different thing than the ritualistic beatings described above.
The other kind of beating comes from a differrent place. It is not related to anything the child has done.
Why do child rapists do what they do? It is related to power and subjugation. That's the place those beatings come from.
The OP referred to an example of ritualistic beating ("nightly"), and I would agree that is psycho. I was more commenting about her generalization of there being a sexual component to a child being spanked - and I just don't think that's true in most cases. I am differentiating between ritualistic vs spanking for discipline. I never felt the need to spank my own children since "time-outs", grounding, a stern look, and lectures seemed to do the trick. Pre-1980's a lot of parents spanked though. Didn't make it right.
I'm the oldest of four children (two girls and two boys). I definitely got the brunt of the beatings.
I think it was a combination of three things:
1) I was the most strong-willed and independent of all the children. I called bullsh!t on Mom's behavior at a young age, and often. That will buy you beatings.
2) I have the same qualities and gifts that my mother has, but I make better use of them. Did better in school, had better relationships with authority figures, and stayed out of trouble. Oh, yes, and I could hold down a job. I was everything my mother could have been, and she saw that...so every accomplishment was rewarded with a beating.
3) Although I look very much like my mother, I also look a bit like my father. My biological father was a beautiful man. My eyes are my best physical feature, and they look just like his.
She constantly told me that my "eyes look stoned...just like your drug addict father's."
Many years later, I realized that had a lot to do with why she wouldn't allow me to wear contacts. And when I got them when I was 25, she was pissed.
And there was some weird sexual component...the older of my two brothers was almost never hit. She used to have him sleep in her bed with her and cuddle until he was eight.
Also, she bought him a subscription to Playboy magazine on his 18th birthday. Such a weird, f*cked up gift to give your son.
At the time, I was taking an Cultural Anthropology class in college. One of the lectures addressed the giving of gifts...and how "gifts symbolized the nature of a relationship between two people".
Mom gifting her favorite son porn? Sick. Sick. Sick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 05:59PM by godtoldmetorun.
I think it was a combination of three things:
1) I was the most strong-willed and independent of all the children. I called bullsh!t on Mom's behavior at a young age, and often. That will buy you beatings.
2) I have the same qualities and gifts that my mother has, but I make better use of them. Did better in school, had better relationships with authority figures, and stayed out of trouble. Oh, yes, and I could hold down a job. I was everything my mother could have been, and she saw that...so every accomplishment was rewarded with a beating.
3) Although I look very much like my mother, I also look a bit like my father. My biological father was a beautiful man. My eyes are my best physical feature, and they look just like his.
She constantly told me that my "eyes look stoned...just like your drug addict father's."
Many years later, I realized that had a lot to do with why she wouldn't allow me to wear contacts. And when I got them when I was 25, she was pissed.
And there was some weird sexual component...the older of my two brothers was almost never hit. She used to have him sleep in her bed with her and cuddle until he was eight.
Also, she bought him a subscription to Playboy magazine on his 18th birthday. Such a weird, f*cked up gift to give your son.
At the time, I was taking an Cultural Anthropology class in college. One of the lectures addressed the giving of gifts...and how "gifts symbolized the nature of a relationship between two people".
Mom gifting her favorite son porn? Sick. Sick. Sick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 05:59PM by godtoldmetorun.
Or even start a new thread about it?
You wrote: I was taking an Cultural Anthropology class in college. One of the lectures addressed the giving of gifts...and how "gifts symbolized the nature of a relationship between two people".
Just curious. No beatings in my family, but the gift giving was weird. Growing up, my parents often used Christmas and Birthdays to give us stuff like socks and underwear, not stuff we actually wanted, and other stuff like clothing that as parents they should have provided anytime they were needed. But they'd make us wait so they could give it as a 'gift'. We were comfortably middle class, BTW.
Once we were adults, they really didn't do gifts. My sibling once told me how hurt she was after she came home for Christmas as a college student. My parents gave her one small piece of costume jewelry. She felt like they were sending her a message that they were done giving her things now that she was grown. It wasn't about the stuff.
Occasionally, they might give me or my kids some b-day money (like 10 or $15), but only if they attended the celebration. Or they'd get a calendar or some other standard and impersonal gift which they would get for every adult child in the family for Christmas. I don't think my mother EVER bought a personal gift for me after I got married, or for one of my children, and certainly not my husband. On the other hand, my husband's mother has an uncanny ability to find things for every member of the family, including me. Not that we expect it, but it always surprises and amazes me that she can do it.
And yet my siblings and I always felt obligated to get something for my mother on every Mothers Day, Birthday, and Christmas, often working together to figure out something she would like. And almost invariably, she would say something critical about the gift, and if it was clothing, she'd have us return it. After a while, it became a standing joke between me and one of my sisters to see what my mother would say about her gifts. It helped us deal with it.
Maybe the gifts did mirror the relationships. My mother always wanted our emotional support, as well, but had nothing to give back. My dad was always emotionally unavailable.
You wrote: I was taking an Cultural Anthropology class in college. One of the lectures addressed the giving of gifts...and how "gifts symbolized the nature of a relationship between two people".
Just curious. No beatings in my family, but the gift giving was weird. Growing up, my parents often used Christmas and Birthdays to give us stuff like socks and underwear, not stuff we actually wanted, and other stuff like clothing that as parents they should have provided anytime they were needed. But they'd make us wait so they could give it as a 'gift'. We were comfortably middle class, BTW.
Once we were adults, they really didn't do gifts. My sibling once told me how hurt she was after she came home for Christmas as a college student. My parents gave her one small piece of costume jewelry. She felt like they were sending her a message that they were done giving her things now that she was grown. It wasn't about the stuff.
Occasionally, they might give me or my kids some b-day money (like 10 or $15), but only if they attended the celebration. Or they'd get a calendar or some other standard and impersonal gift which they would get for every adult child in the family for Christmas. I don't think my mother EVER bought a personal gift for me after I got married, or for one of my children, and certainly not my husband. On the other hand, my husband's mother has an uncanny ability to find things for every member of the family, including me. Not that we expect it, but it always surprises and amazes me that she can do it.
And yet my siblings and I always felt obligated to get something for my mother on every Mothers Day, Birthday, and Christmas, often working together to figure out something she would like. And almost invariably, she would say something critical about the gift, and if it was clothing, she'd have us return it. After a while, it became a standing joke between me and one of my sisters to see what my mother would say about her gifts. It helped us deal with it.
Maybe the gifts did mirror the relationships. My mother always wanted our emotional support, as well, but had nothing to give back. My dad was always emotionally unavailable.
That is exactly why I stopped shopping for my parents because they were the same way.
Example: A month after my 14th birthday, my dad called me into his office (a desk in the dining room), where a pack of four rainbow colored pencils with my name on them had been sitting, ever since my birthday when they were on vacation. And didn't even bother to call home to wish me a happy birthday. Dad threw the pencils at me, "Oh. Forgot to give this to ya." That was my 14th birthday.
So, once I was finally able to shop for family at birthdays, holidays, whathaveyou, I was careful and thoughtful about it until I got burned a couple times, either with no gift or with some impersonal crap like a kitchen towel or something. By then, I'd just send something equally impersonal, like a bag of oranges. I was just as relieved as I'm sure they were when Dad retired and asked if I minded if we didn't trade presents anymore. Psh. As if.
Example: A month after my 14th birthday, my dad called me into his office (a desk in the dining room), where a pack of four rainbow colored pencils with my name on them had been sitting, ever since my birthday when they were on vacation. And didn't even bother to call home to wish me a happy birthday. Dad threw the pencils at me, "Oh. Forgot to give this to ya." That was my 14th birthday.
So, once I was finally able to shop for family at birthdays, holidays, whathaveyou, I was careful and thoughtful about it until I got burned a couple times, either with no gift or with some impersonal crap like a kitchen towel or something. By then, I'd just send something equally impersonal, like a bag of oranges. I was just as relieved as I'm sure they were when Dad retired and asked if I minded if we didn't trade presents anymore. Psh. As if.
When the punishment is not proportional to the crime, or when only certain children are punished, or when the parent seems to enjoy it or when religion is involved, or when the parent is recreating their own childhood abuse - that's what I'm referring to.
laperla not logged in Wrote:
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> When the punishment is not proportional to the
> crime...
...or when there is no "crime" involved. I (the oldest child) was the good-est, best-est, most responsible kid any parent could ever ask for (my intellectual process aside: I was never racist, etc. like the rest of my family was).
What I DID do was deeply disappoint my mother, who was depending on me to be "the next Shirley Temple" (exact words!!!), she was anxiously awaiting the day I would be able to financially support my family (two adults, two kids), and she also EXPECTED me to buy her a "pink Cadillac convertible" (exact words!!!)...and no many HOW many cattle calls I went on, I NEVER got even a single part. (Not surprising: I inherited my paternal grandmother's German bones beneath my skin, and in photos (and on film), this "comes out" in a way that is not true in non-photo life---I would be doing FINE in auditions, I would have all of those dour adults WITH me....until they asked to see my photos...and I could SEE their faces fall, and I knew that not only would I not get the part, but I had beatings ahead---including VERY hard kicks to my abdomen after being thrown onto the kitchen floor.)
My "crime" was ALWAYS my NOT getting the part I had most recently auditioned for.
I am photo-phobic to this day.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 03:47PM by tevai.
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> When the punishment is not proportional to the
> crime...
...or when there is no "crime" involved. I (the oldest child) was the good-est, best-est, most responsible kid any parent could ever ask for (my intellectual process aside: I was never racist, etc. like the rest of my family was).
What I DID do was deeply disappoint my mother, who was depending on me to be "the next Shirley Temple" (exact words!!!), she was anxiously awaiting the day I would be able to financially support my family (two adults, two kids), and she also EXPECTED me to buy her a "pink Cadillac convertible" (exact words!!!)...and no many HOW many cattle calls I went on, I NEVER got even a single part. (Not surprising: I inherited my paternal grandmother's German bones beneath my skin, and in photos (and on film), this "comes out" in a way that is not true in non-photo life---I would be doing FINE in auditions, I would have all of those dour adults WITH me....until they asked to see my photos...and I could SEE their faces fall, and I knew that not only would I not get the part, but I had beatings ahead---including VERY hard kicks to my abdomen after being thrown onto the kitchen floor.)
My "crime" was ALWAYS my NOT getting the part I had most recently auditioned for.
I am photo-phobic to this day.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 03:47PM by tevai.
or feel compelled to continue after a few non-damaging smacks.
Our neighbor's father used to hit all of the kids at his house when he came home and we were being naughty. I didn't mind and thought it was an even trade.
Our neighbor's father used to hit all of the kids at his house when he came home and we were being naughty. I didn't mind and thought it was an even trade.
My father beat all of us and in our situation, it was all about him releasing his own frustrations onto us. We never knew what was going to set him off and whenever we saw him coming, we did our best to get away. But that wasn't always possible.
The enjoyment of power and the dominant position is more likely, and that can manifest itself sexually, through violence or both.
All abuse is about power. Blaming it all on sex misses the point, I think - where there is a sexual component, that is a weapon to establish power - not the root cause, imo.
All abuse is about power. Blaming it all on sex misses the point, I think - where there is a sexual component, that is a weapon to establish power - not the root cause, imo.
Serial killers that torture and mutilate do it for a sexual component, so I'm sure some parents that sadistically abuse their children also get a sort of satisfaction out of it.
My husband's mother considered sex to be of the devil except in a few cases when a woman was impregnated.
I'm sure she substituted and got sexual relief from her holy roller convulsions and from beating her only child with a razor strop. She considered those activities to be biblical and godly unlike sex.
I think some Mormons experience a sexual response when they're in fast and testimony meeting, especially, if they're sopping and pouring out their souls at the pulpit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 03:18PM by Cheryl.
I'm sure she substituted and got sexual relief from her holy roller convulsions and from beating her only child with a razor strop. She considered those activities to be biblical and godly unlike sex.
I think some Mormons experience a sexual response when they're in fast and testimony meeting, especially, if they're sopping and pouring out their souls at the pulpit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 03:18PM by Cheryl.
Some girls who are being sexually abused by their fathers get beaten by their mothers, as if the child is to blame.
Myron Donnerbalken Wrote:
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> Some girls who are being sexually abused by their
> fathers get beaten by their mothers, as if the
> child is to blame.
True.
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> Some girls who are being sexually abused by their
> fathers get beaten by their mothers, as if the
> child is to blame.
True.
I probably took as many spankings--and a few beatings that were definitely physical abuse--as any here, and I've also done as much "work" on my demons as anyone, including some more in the last few weeks that once again leave me looking at the world closer to the way it is, having had another "narcissistic prism" shattered; a very subtle one, of course.
I'll take credit for looking inward and doing the heavy lifting, but seriously I had a few advantages, including a terrific friend--a TBM PhD clinician--and the knowledge that I had to "grow or die" in order to continue to recover from alcoholism. Okay, that's a bit of hyperbole; I know lots who've maintained sobriety but have essentially landed on a plateau where they continue abstinence and are more or less functional. Right now, I consider that a "Gift of the Universe" even though it has meant a lot of pain, and often long periods of black depression. Beating one's head against the proverbial wall always feels so good when one quits.
I haven't found the corporal punishment had a "sexual element" for me, but I'm told it does for others. I hate to think of any who were beaten for "innocent child sexual acting out"; the "toxic shame messages" I internalized from my own experiences were gawdawful enough.
My only "wisdom" at this point is to share the mileposts on my own road map for those wanting to listen to them and realize I only have my own story.
I'll take credit for looking inward and doing the heavy lifting, but seriously I had a few advantages, including a terrific friend--a TBM PhD clinician--and the knowledge that I had to "grow or die" in order to continue to recover from alcoholism. Okay, that's a bit of hyperbole; I know lots who've maintained sobriety but have essentially landed on a plateau where they continue abstinence and are more or less functional. Right now, I consider that a "Gift of the Universe" even though it has meant a lot of pain, and often long periods of black depression. Beating one's head against the proverbial wall always feels so good when one quits.
I haven't found the corporal punishment had a "sexual element" for me, but I'm told it does for others. I hate to think of any who were beaten for "innocent child sexual acting out"; the "toxic shame messages" I internalized from my own experiences were gawdawful enough.
My only "wisdom" at this point is to share the mileposts on my own road map for those wanting to listen to them and realize I only have my own story.
My non-disabled brothers took the brunt of the corporal punishment. The girls were barely touched. My dad expected his sons to be strong and perfect. He expected the girls to be perfect, too, but we were definitely spared the rod.
We all turned out hard working and successful even without educations. Only one of us has a college degree. The rest of us earn at least as much as she does, but most of us earn more than she does.
I do believe it was the way people punished their children back then. It doesn't make it right. Everyone else was getting the same punishment. My dad certainly didn't baby us girls because he expected A LOT from us.
We all turned out hard working and successful even without educations. Only one of us has a college degree. The rest of us earn at least as much as she does, but most of us earn more than she does.
I do believe it was the way people punished their children back then. It doesn't make it right. Everyone else was getting the same punishment. My dad certainly didn't baby us girls because he expected A LOT from us.
Yes. The obvious deep enjoyment followed by relief at our devastation that my dad got out of wrestling, restraining and torturing us as small children has a sexual component that I think he's never even been aware of. I know my mom "fed" us to him to get it out of his system, making him more tolerable to be with afterwards.
Then when I was forced in my teens it didn't seem very devastating as I was quite used to being overpowered and hurt for kicks. And it wasn't even about sex, just conquest. And then I was Elizabeth Smarted into staying with him. Well, he chewed my gum, that's that.
Then when I was forced in my teens it didn't seem very devastating as I was quite used to being overpowered and hurt for kicks. And it wasn't even about sex, just conquest. And then I was Elizabeth Smarted into staying with him. Well, he chewed my gum, that's that.
Yep, one's "sex map" can be distorted by childhood abuse. Ask a prostitute. Many men want to be spanked or whipped. That's warped. And the reason it is, is because people beat their kids. Stop It.
rationalist01 Wrote:
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> Many men want to be
> spanked or whipped. That's warped.
I think a lot of people in the BDSM community would disagree with you and there doesn't seem to be any correlation between childhood abuse and a desire for kink.
http://www.pandys.org/bdsmandsurvivors.htm
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 08:48PM by Itzpapalotl.
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> Many men want to be
> spanked or whipped. That's warped.
I think a lot of people in the BDSM community would disagree with you and there doesn't seem to be any correlation between childhood abuse and a desire for kink.
http://www.pandys.org/bdsmandsurvivors.htm
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 08:48PM by Itzpapalotl.
I was the son of a 16 year old Mother, 18 year old father living in Salt Lake City in 1960.
Growing up everything was my fault. My mother was shamed, took it out on me. My fathers life was ruined - took it out on me.
When I was 5 I was taken away from them for almost a year by my grandparents. In SLC in 1965 that is almost unimaginable.
No surprise,today, my father died young, don't talk to anyone else in my direct family. My sisters turned on me. First they told me how much abuse they remembered. More than I can directly recall. Then they rallied around my mother, and all three turned and denied everything as soon as my mother went back to Church (she was inactive before that).
The abuse was not sexual, but based on my sex. Male. My mother can't even acknowledge that I now have sons. She totally ignores them. Yet my sisters can't see that.
Got to love the LDS Church.
Growing up everything was my fault. My mother was shamed, took it out on me. My fathers life was ruined - took it out on me.
When I was 5 I was taken away from them for almost a year by my grandparents. In SLC in 1965 that is almost unimaginable.
No surprise,today, my father died young, don't talk to anyone else in my direct family. My sisters turned on me. First they told me how much abuse they remembered. More than I can directly recall. Then they rallied around my mother, and all three turned and denied everything as soon as my mother went back to Church (she was inactive before that).
The abuse was not sexual, but based on my sex. Male. My mother can't even acknowledge that I now have sons. She totally ignores them. Yet my sisters can't see that.
Got to love the LDS Church.