http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-news-bc-nevada05-20150305-story.html#page=1

Saw this article about Las Vegas taking water from a nearby area. Mentioned something about a cattle ranch owned by the church that helps feed the poor. Does anyone have any idea just how much beef product from church owned cattle ranches actually ends up on the tables of the poor in the church, or any poor for that matter? I would love to leave a comment on the article.

It doesn't, the church owned cattle businesses are for profit. The cattle are sold on the market, the meat is not donated to feed the poor.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595096557/LDS-Church-buys-88000-acres-in-Nebraska.html?pg=all

Some of it is canned and sold to members as food storage. Much of it is sold on the open market. I imagine some is donated as Bishop's Storehouse items for members.

Selling it as food storage is quite the racket. I'm betting that makes that part of their operation tax free since it is in support of a church program (LDS food storage).


BTW, 88,000 acres in Nebraska is just the tip of the iceberg. LDS Inc has many 10s of thousands of acres in WY, around 300,000 near Orlando, I don't even know how many tens of thousands of acres near Pensacola, several large ranches in the Raymond/Tabor area in Alberta, and major ranches/farms in Brazil, Australia, and Argentina. And those are just the ones I've heard about. I have no doubt there are more.

LDS Inc is a real estate holding corporation. Religion is just their signature product. It is not their primary business.

I think that in the UK they own something like 10% of the country's agribusiness. Whatever the figure, it's a large amount by anyone's standards. Real estate development, water rights trading, and agribusiness is the work of Mormon Jesus.

TSSC also uses senior missionaries and other volunteers, in addition to paid employees, to run their various mega ranches.

This practice is unfair to other businesses who cannot lower their costs by using senior missionaries, etc.

Not to mention that TSCC blurs the line between for-profit and non-profit entities all the time.

Church-run cattle ranches have occasionally gotten in trouble with the law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_Ranches

"In 2010, the Ninth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida (Orange and Seminole Counties) ruled that Deseret owned and had control over the Taylor Creek Reservoir over the St. Johns River Water Management District. This ruling is being considered for appeal. The district wants to increase the draw from 10,000,000 US gallons (38,000,000 l; 8,300,000 imp gal) to upwards of 25,000,000 US gallons (95,000,000 l; 21,000,000 imp gal) daily.[8]"
-----------

The TSCC wanted control of that water so that they could sell some it and make even more money.

"In 2011, having won control of some of its water from the St. Johns River Water Management District, it was planning on selling some to Cocoa, Florida.[12]"
--------------

"The LDS Church does not disclose the revenue of the ranch, but it is known that in year 2000 they moved 16 million pounds (7300 t) of calves, which at the time translated to about $16 million in revenue. In 2008, Deseret Ranch discussed selling part of the property for a development near Orlando, Florida, but the proposed rezoning was withdrawn prior to approval.[10][11]

Here are my favorite parts: This statement about the "ancient " ways of ranching: "This is a huge project that raises fundamental questions," said Paul Hejmanowski, a lawyer for the church. "Can we sacrifice an ancient way of life for a growing metropolis?"

Couple that with: "...the valley that is home to the Mormon ranch and its 1,750-head herd..." because so many "ancient" ranching operations managed herds of this size.

Also: "The ranch, owned by the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, is worked by a combination of paid employees, church missionaries and other volunteers" because so many "ancient" ranches had an army of church missionaries and volunteers working the range.

Additionally, my heart was touched by this line (emphasis added): "The calves, after they are weaned, are shipped to an Idaho feed lot and then to a processing plant, where SOME of the meat is frozen or canned as stew and beef chunks for distribution around the world. I wonder if that is the same way that SOME of my tithing went to help the poor and build the kingdom of god vs building the corporation of god. How much is "SOME"? Out of those 1,750 cattle, what percent is actually distributed around the world? Inquiring minds would like to know...but probably the books are not open on that!

More background on the tactics used by TSCC to make money by controlling water resources associated with cattle ranching:

"For anyone who may have missed it, about a month ago, the State of Florida expressed an interest in tapping into Deseret Ranch's lake (constructed with public funds) to ease the water troubles of nearby towns.

"Deseret Ranch decided it would be happy to oblige....for millions of dollars in fees.

"Believing things like water to be a public resource, St. Johns River Water Management District has filed a lawsuit against the ranch, and the morg brought out its legal team. It is expected to take up to 2 years to resolve the dispute, taking all the appeals into account.

"Apparently their humanitarian aid doesn't extend to providing water to locals from government funded projects. " [end quoted material]

Note that the water reservoir was built with public funds, not with TSCC funds.

The quoted test above is from a website to which this forum does not allow a link.

More interesting Cleveland Ranch info from:
http://www.allaroundnevada.com/cleveland-ranch-spring-valley/

One person reports that in 1950 there were about 700 cattle on the ranch. And that was not even in "ancient" times. I love the comparison of "ancient" ranching with an operation that is 1,000 head larger than the 1950 report.

Also, some crooked Mormon history in the dealings: "After Cleveland’s death, his widow took control of the ranch. William Neil McGill, for whom the smelting town McGill was named, made numerous attempts to buy the Cleveland empire, which led to a bitter feud. During this period, Cleveland was the primary stop on the Aurum-Osceola stage, which ran twice a week. In 1909 Mrs. Cleveland sold the ranch to Thomas Judd, a Mormon bishop from Lund, for $100,000. She believed Judd when he said he would not resell to McGill. But only months later Judd deeded the land to McGill. Mrs. Cleveland vowed that she would kill McGill for his underhanded deed, but she never carried out her threat."

More information on the ways in which mormons control and fight for water rights -- note that mormons often sit on water use/rights boards as well.

"A state utility regulator's belief in the Mormon religion should disqualify him from ruling on a controversial case involving the church in Central Florida, according to three local governments.

Lawyers for Brevard and Orange counties and the city of Cocoa asked Public Service Commissioner Terry Deason to disqualify himself from a case involving efforts by the Mormon Church to control the water under the sprawling Deseret Ranches the church owns in Orange, Osceola and Brevard.

In its petition, Brevard said Deason has taken a vow to help the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, based in Salt Lake City, and follow its beliefs."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/keyword/water-rights/featured/3

Mormons controlling water rights in Nevada goes back to pioneer days. In 2008, mormons were in the news when Nevadans were discussing water use and the growing demands of Las Vegas.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jun/01/satiating-booming-city/

Excerpts below:

In 1979, Richard Bunker was tapped to head the Gaming Control Board. A devout Mormon, Bunker consulted trusted friend and religious icon James I. Gibson before accepting the job. [...]

As a Mormon bishop, he doesn’t gamble, he doesn’t smoke, he pays a full tithe to his church and he served a three-year mission in Finland.

A direct descendant of some of the region’s earliest pioneers and the son of a city councilman, Bunker too has dedicated his life to building Las Vegas.

As Clark County manager, Bunker streamlined the infrastructure of what went on to become the fastest-growing metropolis in America. Bunker then reinvented modern gaming.

In the process, he became a kingmaker in Nevada politics.

He vows that his last act for Las Vegas will be to keep it in water. [end excerpts]

The article goes on to provide a lot detail about Harry Reid and about other mormons in Nevada, including polygamist past for some of them.

Regarding TSCC's budgets and the minuscule amounts that comprise its charitable giving:

http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/budget/

Lets say that LD$ Inc sells some beef to McClown Burger or Burger Kink, let say it gets made into some hamburgers. Let say some of those burgers do not get eaten right away and end up going into a dumpster. Lets say a hungry homeless person gets into the dumpster looking for something to eat, lets say they find the disposed of hamburger(s) ...... It Could Happen !

I wish that my MORmON grandparent would have had one of these LD$ Inc mega Ranches move in next to their cattle ranch, to hog up water, feed, and resources, and to ask them to volunteer their labor to work along other volunteers to assist such a parasitic enterprise that was directly competing and impeding on their attempt to make a living. It might have changed their perspective about how "THE" church is the work of the lord.

The church donates as much beef as a devout Hindu wants to eat.

Seriously, that cracked me up! With the number of cattle the mormons own, they must worship them! I'm sure Steve Vick (R-ID) would agree...

The following link provides just ten timely documentaries regarding the growing global crisis regarding the exploitation of Earth's most precious commodity.

http://www.watercache.com/blog/2011/10/must-see-water-documentaries-provide-insight-into-future-water-crisis/

I believe many would be shocked to learn how active a role the Mormon empire plays in their aggressive push to gain control of water rights around the world. The following is a senior missionary "OPPORTUNITY" that rather than being justly compensated for their professional services the so-called "church" will demand, and sadly receive, about $2,500 FROM THE COUPLE for every month they serve. So, in addition to the MULTI-MILLIONS the "church" rakes in every year exploiting laws regarding earth's NATURAL RESOURCES which should be FREELY AVAILABLE TO ALL, TSS"C" vaccuums an additional $30,000 a year from the elderly couple foolish enough to fork over the family wealth to a mega-billion religious scam known as LD$, INC-orruption.

When reading the following please note, "Major work assignments include the management and PROTECTION OF THE CHURCHES WATER RIGHTS in Arizona, Idaho, Utah, Washington, and 11 other western states." That someone would really pay $30,000 a year to protect the assets of a billion dollar corporation makes me ill to think about. By the way, this is only THE TIP of this iceburg of corruption.

Water Resource Specialist
Contact: Grant Cooper Tel.: (801) 240-4074
Toll Free: (800) 453-3860 ext. 2-4074
E-mail:
coopergs@ldschurch.org
Full-time missionaries or missionary couples with a background in water resources, water rights, and general civil engineering disciplines are needed to serve in the Natural Resource Services Section at the Church Office Building in Salt Lake City, Utah. Missionaries will assist in providing technical support to Church entities in water resources planning, preliminary design analysis, groundwater development, drinking water compliance, storm water management, pumping systems and irrigation systems. Major work assignments include the management and protection of the Church’s water rights in Arizona, Idaho, Utah, Washington, and 11 other western states.

Missionaries should be capable of communicating clearly verbally and in writing and work well with others in a collaborative approach. The spouse may perform clerical or office-support functions unless also qualified on water-related topics. A professional license in civil engineering or another engineering field is preferred but not required. However, a technical background in water resources and/or related engineering discipline is required. This is a 12 to 23 month assignment.
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/callings/missionary/senior-missionary/senior-missionary-opportunities.pdf?lang=eng

See if you can spot the common thread in the following movie list:

Movies/Films

Three Word Brand (1921): Paul and Brand (twins separated at birth, played by William S. Hart) become, respectively, governor of Utah and a partner in a ranch where neighboring ranchers are trying to get control of local water rights.
Riders of Destiny (1933): Government agent Saunders (John Wayne) fights a local rancher who controls the local water supply and is trying to force other ranchers into contracts for water at exorbitant rates.
King of the Pecos (1936): John Wayne stars in a classic battle over western water rights and land in the Pecos River country.
Law of the Ranger (1937): Another western with a monopolistic rancher claiming local water rights. Bill Nash (John Merton), owner of the local water company and town boss, tries to control the valley’s water rights by building a reservoir, but he must get control of the key property and murders the rightful owner to do so.
Oklahoma Frontier (1939): A land rush leads to an attempt to control the water rights in the Cherokee Strip (with Johnny Mack Brown).
http://scienceblogs.com/significantfigures/index.php/2013/03/20/water-at-the-movies-2013-update/

Wow. Thank you for this.

People need to start seeing the obvious.

The OP's question, "How much goes to feeding the poor". People need to start learning about all of the tax/donation loopholes that wealth and corporations use. Since the ranch is "for profit" the for profit business can write off its charitable donations to Deseret Industries (a non-profit entity); but the IRS does put a limit on how much can be written off. Trust me, the Ranch is only going to donate the bare minimum and sell the rest of the cattle/beef for profit. They're not DoDos!!!

The hooves and tails.

+++ love it!!

The 2 LDS ranches in S. Alberta, the Knight Ranch and the Bar K2 probably calf out close to 4000 head of cows every year....and I wonder if any of that prime Alberta beef ever gets into the Bishops Storehouse and to needy families. I suspect not. Just generates $$'s for Cult HQ. And with the price of beef skyrocketing, that means big bucks.

Ron Burr

Topping. I had NO idea!

That's horribly unethical to create a need for members to buy food storage by ordering them that God wants them to have 3 months to a year of food storage, then making a living selling them that food at a profit. There are so many ways the members are fleeced in this church, it's easy to lose count.

Cattle ranching isn't good for the environment anyway. If everyone ate plants instead, a large part of the environment damage would stop, people would be healthier, and millions of animals wouldn't have to to face the slaughterhouse.

LDS Mormonism is a corporate religion. The Church is just the legacy religious services division of LD$, Inc. The Church's only value to LD$, Inc. is as a tax free revenue status shield and as a source of investment capital. Think about it. There is no other reason for the existence of LDS Church. Mormonism began as pure fraud and LD$, Inc. became a large holding corporation.

Mormonism is the ultimate in brand loyalty.

With so many cattle to take care of when they get sick, the
Church surely has a small tobacco plantation, right? I mean,
that's the Lord's way isn't it? It's in the scriptures.

I bet one of the purposes behind the mysterious drive to build temples in the face of stagnant growth numbers is simply to diversify the real estate portfolio. Nice though agricultural land is, its nice to have a few prime urban parcels around the world. Here in San Diego, they own a lovely temple site in a prime upscale shopping district right next to a freeway. I'm sure it has appreciated handsomely since they bought it.

The church has two divisions for-profit and welfare. The welfare ranches are typically smaller and are used for the humanitarian aid the for-profit ranches are bigger and operated as for-profit businesses paying taxes and sending there items into the market place. Service missionaries are used only to do perform labors to buildings and houses typically on the for-profit properties.

My grandfather managed a couple dairies for the church in Lodi and Grand Junction. Perhaps I could glean some info from him.

Hey c'mon!

Mormons = meat = sparingly

They don't need it.

Easy, right? :-)

The Mormon Cult needs these enormous cattle ranches to supply their endless need for BULLSHIT.

Hey Ron...being close to raymond youd know that feedlot out toward welling...had a mighty sweet deal feeding those church calves...grease the wheels...having been in ranch and farm my entire life i can say that the beef business is no jackpot other than the last couple years...margins so slim if you turned em sideways you couldnt see them...cheap or free labor makes all the difference...id say the major difference would be book keeping...byu must turn out some dandies to keep it flowing out those loopholes...my experience and acquaintance with folks whove worked and managed the Knight and the Bark2 ...is theyd skin a louse to render the tallow...well save the cochrane ranch dished off to palmer at hill spring for another day...its a lot of work and expense to own millions of acres..less your the queen...then the plebes pay her bills

Wall shit..lost myself there...question was beef for the poor...price of beef right now...id say scarcely the bawl makes it into a can ...they closed the cannery here i heard...anyone that worked there seemed right pissed for the privilege..even in the old days there might be an old lame bull or couple bad eyed cows found the cannery...speshly when the packers got fussy and would just tank em ...right tasty if you cook it long enuf in bite size chunks

Since the WoW says we should eat meat sparingly, ChurchCo should be raising meat sparingly.

Okay, the word from Jesus (Smith, not RaptorJ; we're still sorting out which one is the one true critter) is he would like to see publicity on the Church's cattle operations in Florida, so I think this is a good thing.

Unfortunately, the Chicago Tribune link has expired, and I couldn't find the story with a search on their website.

/vonnegut voice on: So it goes

Carry on...