The teacher will lose control if he allows the girl to sit there with or without the phone??????

Bull! I taught for 33 years. I NEVER had to call in security, not when I taught in the barrio with some gang members in my classes and not when I taught in a Lake Woebegone little town where "ALL the children were above average!"

I treated kids with respect, didn't pull power plays, didn't back them into a corner where they had to be defiant in order to save face. I never made a "promise/threat" I couldn't or wouldn't carry through on. If a teenager was having a bad day or I knew they were having problems, I talked with them quietly, offered to send them to the counselor to talk or, if they preferred, let them sit quietly.

I wrote very few discipline referrals because I didn't need to. When I did, they were acted upon by the administration.

I'm a 5 foot 4 inch, 135 lb. little old lady. I retired at 62 years old, 5 years ago. So, I'm not talking about the distant past. A teacher who has class control does not allow this particular situation to develop. Ditto the administrator. Ditto the cop. They all behaved incompetently.

If this little 16 year old had been a big football player, the cop would not have done what he did. He did it because he could.

Oh, and to those of you who think what happened was justified, what would you think if it had been done to your child?

And don't even bother floating the "My child would never do that!" baloney because any parent who thinks their child is perfect is sadly deceived.

Most kids are pretty good most of the time. But they are not perfect! There may be a time when they are smart-mouthed or rude or lie or copy someone's homework or cheat on a test. It happens.

"Oh my child would never lie!" Really? They never have lied to you?

It is true that my child is a better human being than I will ever be. But perfect? Nah!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2015 10:00PM by bordergirl.

Well said!

You nailed it!

RB

Thank you for saying this...wish my kids had you as a teacher!

as is my sister and her daughter. This would have never happened in their classes. I agree with what you said. I haven't read the other thread. There was no reason for this to happen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2015 12:19AM by cl2.

What happened to kids will be kids?

Brute force wasn't used when I was in high school. There were times I'm sure the administration wanted to. But there wasn't body slamming going on, and when kids acted out they'd get sent to the principal's office, or expelled from school.

Where I ended up finishing high school, in Palo Alto, late 70's there were school resource officers assigned to our high school. Most of the time you hardly knew they were there. It was an upper class high school, where many of the kids drove their own, or their parents BMW's, Mercedes, Audis, you name it. Those kids came from wealthy families. Why did we need resource officers?

Acting out is no respector of socio-economic class.

The kids the year I was there pushed a teacher's car into the high school outdoor swimming pool one morning, as a way of showing him up. Throwing a cream pie in my choir teacher's face at an off campus party, hosted by one of the students at their home (by another choir member.)

But not really any serious crimes other than vandalism and petty stuff kids get into.

I wasn't the best behaved teenager myself. There were times I acted out during my high school years. Never once did I fear that kind of reprisal by law enforcement or the school. Not once.

What kind of a nation are we becoming, when kids can no longer be expected to act like kids, including the times they get difficult or act like little sh*ts?

Rebelliousness was coined by adolescents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2015 10:13PM by amyjo.

Absolutely! In fact, I would say that it is the job of an adolescent to rebel. It is how they establish their own identity separate from their parents.

Common sense and proportionality seem to be severely lacking.

Oh, they talked back? They questioned authority?

Off with their heads!

bordergirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely! In fact, I would say that it is the
> job of an adolescent to rebel. It is how they
> establish their own identity separate from their
> parents.
>
>

When you ask Google, "What is the job of an adolescent?" it shows you how to apply for work at McDonald's.

But when you ask, "What are the duties of an adolescent?" it gives you some articles that try to make sense of the the question. Apparently the most important job of an adolescent is to prepare him/herself to live independently. As the years progress, most of us flowed fairly seamlessly into that capacity.

Nothing was said about being a rebel. I would venture the opinion that most Americans went through their teens and become productive adults without rebelling. And I'd also venture the guess that those who made it a point to rebel whenever it was convenient fared not as well.

And I'm much more confident of my estimation that most of us did our best to raise our children NOT to rebel.

Please keep in mind, should you feel the need to excoriate me, that I was quite likely much more of a rebel than you were. Oh, my, yes... Much more.

I taught school for 30 years and have subbed for 10 more and I have never had to body slam a kid or call security either,but what works with one kid does not work with others. There are times when you make a perfectly reasonable request such as, 'Please, put your phone away' and instead of complying, the kid lets loose with a stream of profanity or throws something and you have to deal with it. You cannot just back down and let the kid do her thing. I AGREE THAT THE COP WAS WRONG AND DESERVED TO BE FIRED. Body slamming a girl is way over the top in those circumstances,but this was a very difficult situation. Maybe the teacher could have kept it from escalating and maybe not,but I would be interested in how those of you who feel so strongly would have kept it from getting to that point,or if it had already escalated,what you would have done? Would you have backed down and let the girl keep the phone? If not, what would you have done as a teacher,principal or cop too get herbto comply without using violence? BTW, I dont think anyone said the cop was justified. I certainly didnt,but you need to be aware that teaching, in some schools particularly,is a very difficult and even dangerous job.It is easy to say that it shouldnt have gotten to that point,but sometimes it just happens regardless of the skill of the teacher.

I agree it's a systemic problem and not just the teacher's fault.

If I knew a kid was recently placed into foster care and was acting out in a nonviolent way, there is no way the cops would be called. No way.

If they were there for whatever reason, there are many ways to restrain someone or get them to walk alongside you without causing harm. The cop was enjoying the power and show.

There were countless choices here. None of them were used.

I agree, this is a tough situation. A great deal of patience is needed and sadly the administration are the ones that messed up. I'm sure administration is pushing the teachers with the Harry Wong crap of "make everyone to obey" pedagogy. The teacher is responsible to maintain safety. That's the first priority even before teaching. Next create an environment where student's can learn. Which means all those hoodlums need to sit in assigned seats and shut up... If the girl is 'quietly' looking at her phone that is no reason for the teacher to stop everyone's learning. There will always be one or two 'quietly' defiant students for whatever reason. It's not worth bothering over.

I need to really learn more about this case but I will say that teachers and administrators are under tremendous pressure these days. Parents have grade expectations and if their child isn't getting it the teacher is failing regardless of how much or little effort a kid puts into it. I have a family member who is a teacher who now basically asks parents what they want their child's grade to be and she makes it happen via retesting over and over again. She teaches high school math and has been challenged by administrators for not giving enough A's. And, with all the school violence now, what was once simple disobedience or a prank now escalates much more quickly than ever before. Once security personnel get involved some level of force is implied, at least that's how I see their involvement. This SRO may have gone too far. I really do need to do my research before I can formulate an opinion about this particular case.

If this child is in the foster care system, she comes with a whole set of baggage that the majority of society members are WOEFULLY undereducated about. I just learned about this child being a foster care child here on these posts. School personnel are among those that are undereducated about kids in foster care.
I speak as someone who adopted a teen out of foster care so I have some firsthand experience. My first gut reaction to the info I've heard about this case was that maybe parents should be called -disrupted at work - to gain cooperation from their child. Inconveniencing parents could assist a lot in resolving situations like this as well as perhaps helping parents see the perspective of school personnel a little better. If this kid was in foster care though there might not be one adult anywhere who could quickly persuade her to comply. I know one thing - if I were a school security person in a similar situation now, I would absolutely ask that a parent be called to the school if I couldn't talk the child into complying. And some training for school personnel on interpersonal skills in resolving these types of situations might help along with training on behavior problems of kids in the foster care system. School personnel are under tremendous pressure, more than ever, and they need all the strategies they can learn to mediate these situations to prevent them from escalating. I left teaching myself because some of the kids feel the pressure tremendously too and I had a tough time buying into stressing out 3rd graders just to get them to pass standardized tests.

Now off to thoroughly educate myself about this case!

Just watch the video. It is not at all a complex case. Nothing that happened that day could justify that violence. Nothing.

From what was aired on TV was nothing but brute force and abuse of police power. That girl was assaulted and violated by that bugger.

Whether she spoke back or didn't, she sat there at her desk. Oh, so she threw a punch at the officer when he came to grab her and throw her over? Yeah, well, in her mind he was the aggressor.

And to anyone who watched that video it is clear as day who was violating who's rights. It's appalling that anyone makes excuses for that cop. The ones who are on CNN and the news are those just interested in protecting the status quo.

Heaven forbid, the public outcry exceeds police brutality.

What would you have done as a teacher when she refused to put the phone away or leave class? What would you have done as an administrator called in when the girl refused to comply with the teacher? What would you have done as a police officer called in when the girl had refused too obey the teacher or principal? We know the cop used excessive force,but what would you have done? Would you have backed down or what?

If cops are well trained, there needs to be extremely minimal force to get a small girl to leave a room. Hardly any force at all. So I would have used that training.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2015 10:59PM by woodsmoke.

I would have back down, or even better not get into this power struggle to begin with. Why disrupt the learning in the class over one girl and her cell phone?

Agree. It can be better to let some things go given the situation. And the learning of every kid in that class was impacted.

Anything, ANYTHING, including letting the kid "win," would have been far better than the abject violence that that girl had to experience and other children had to witness.

YEP.

Wife says in the districts where she student-taught or taught in high school and taught in elementary, students were not to be restrained or forcibly moved unless their own or someone else's safety was compromised. As ridiculous as this may sound to some, on the rare occasion that a student was disruptive to the extent that the educational process could not continue with him or her present, the teacher and class picked up their materials and moved to another space to continue a lesson while administration or whoever dealt with the errant kid. The kid might ultimately face at least temporary education in suspension school or some other more restrictive environment, but no one would have been hurt.

As much as I believe the kid in this instance set the wheels in motion for the circumstances to occur, she was still a kid. While I don't necessarily think she should be entitled to all of the entire financial award package that her family's attorney likely will seek on her behalf (if past precedent is any indication of the litigation that will probably follow), I certainly can't condone the actions of the campus-based police officer. The school is almost certainly better off without that individual "protecting" its students any longer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2015 12:24AM by scmd.

She doesn't have a family; she's an orphan. I hope justice will still be served.

The New York Daily News had been reporting that she was orphaned, but has since withdrawn that claim. However, many websites have been repeating the original Daily News story.

According to the girl's attorney, Todd Rutherford, both her mother and grandmother are "alive and well." Mr. Rutherford would not say whether the girl is in foster care:

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2015/10/spring_valley_high_student.html

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/no-victim-assaultatspringvalley-not-orphan


You can listen to the interview with Mr. Rutherford here (relevant portions begin at about 1:30 and 2:33):

https://soundcloud.com/joemadisontheblackeagle/atty-todd-rutherford-on-the-joe-madison-show

You're right that it was a false report that she was orphaned. It appears clear from multiple sources that she is in foster care. This source clarifies the situation and also provides great insight into what taking away someone's cell phone meant for this student and why she refused. This was not a spoiled Utah brat.


https://www.colorlines.com/articles/no-victim-assaultatspringvalley-not-orphan

woodsmoke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're right that it was a false report that she
> was orphaned. It appears clear from multiple
> sources that she is in foster care. This source
> clarifies the situation and also provides great
> insight into what taking away someone's cell phone
> meant for this student and why she refused. This
> was not a spoiled Utah brat.
>
>
> https://www.colorlines.com/articles/no-victim-assa
> ultatspringvalley-not-orphan

Spoiled Utah brat or not, a neurotypical seventeen-year-old should know better than to take out a cell phone and use it without permission during a class. Of course it should go without saying that a law enforcement professional or any school employee should know that you don't throw or body-slam a student, either.

First off, no one knows if she is neurotypical or not.

The cell phone is unrelated. She did not bring this on herself in any way. His response is so outlandish that it is clearly unrelated entirely to her behavior. He was on a testerone binge and enjoys displaying his power. That's all.

Besides the fact that if anyone was "disrupting" anything, it was quite clearly him. The minor disruption of a phone happens hundreds of times a day in high schools. Brutal assault does not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2015 02:47PM by woodsmoke.

woodsmoke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She doesn't have a family; she's an orphan. I hope
> justice will still be served.


But she DOES have a lawyer whether what has been said about her not having a family is true or not. Relatives sometimes come out of the woodwork after something like this happens.

The perp battered a child under color of authority, and he went from an assumed position of respect to perp, because some lesser-brained juvenile reflexively brought out his or her cell phone.

Cell phones make the best witnesses, cold, heartless computers that they are. Without the video, the perp would still be allowed amongst the community, with a government-issue badge and weapon.

I appreciate the video much more than a dozen students' stories in defense of the victim.

Let the sun shine.

Is that cop a Mormon? I mean the girl is black.

The dichotomy between LEO training and the training I did for Juvenile Justice Services could shed some light on this (maybe).

For an LEO, you're taught a 'force continuum.' It starts with words, then escalates through (depending on what you're issued) hands-on, ASP baton, nighstick, pepper spray, taser, then gun. However, the objective isn't so much compliance as it is submission. Presumably, you haven't entered the force continuum unless somebody is disobeying a lawful order. The desired outcome of starting on the force continuum is to get somebody into cuffs and into the backseat.

In JJS, you're taught 'pain compliance.' In other words, it's expected that people will refuse to obey you but are not being violent or even lawbreaking. You may need to get them to take their meds, or get from Point A to Point B, or whatever else. So, you're taught a variety of techniques to cause the person enough pain to comply. It sounds harsh, but it really isn't -- it's a lot gentler than pepper spray or a baton to the noggin (you can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_compliance).

I'd guess that the resource officer never underwent proper pain compliance training. He skipped right to "use fists" on his use of force continuum, with the appalling results we see on display.

The police officer at my high school was 6'7" and probably 260 lbs of solid muscle. He tackled a girl once about as hard as I've ever seen someone get hit on a football field. She had just pulled a gun on another girl though. I never once saw the officer called into a classroom. All of my teachers could handle their students just fine. The cop was there to enforce the law and keep the students safe, not to discipline disruptive students.

She deserved what she got. Respect and attitude go a long way when dealing with the police. She didn't have it and learned the hard way.

I would rather live in a society where striking a police officer is met with force than a society where entitled youth think the rules do not apply to them.

Watch the blasted video!

She was flailing as she was being choked and thrown over backward.

Anybody would be flailing in that situation!

Police can and should be better than this.

There is no excuse for it! She posed no threat to anyone!

You go ahead and live in the police state if you want. I prefer to live in a country where the police, like the people they serve, are not above the law.

Says a lot about the coward that a young girl can provoke that kind of reaction.