My husband is one of very few non Mormons at his job. He is also the highest paid as a leader st the company . I work here and there as a freelance artist and as long as he gets good hours my pay usually goes for savings, eating organic and fun stuff like cosmetics, weekend getaways. Etc. otherwise we live pretty simply. His Mormon co workers all have several kids (3-5)and wives ( one wife each) at home. All have newer houses, etc. what's the Mormon secret to wealth? We could never afford children ( don't want them really either) or these big houses. Where does the funding come from?

Visa, MasterCard, Any bank willing to float them a loan, oh and the wives selling those stupid oils might help pay a few of the bills. Then they go bankrupt and start all over again.

Don't confuse stuff with wealth, most of them are probably in debt deeply.

I have a relative who is "doing well", but they get donations from the church to help pay their bills. They have their own business and most of the funds go right back into that business and into maintaining a too large house. On paper they can go to their bishop and claim poverty because they've over extended themselves.

My husband is jealous because he wishes he had his own business.

Here's how it often works:

I once knew a guy who lived on the famed Seventeen Mile Drive outside of Pacific Grove, CA. I was active in Aaronic Priesthood leadership at the time, and this guy was a bishop's counselor. He owned a business in Monterey. I just assumed that he was a successful businessman, while I lived in relative poverty with my pregnant wife in a small apartment in Pacific Grove. There were no up-sides to my life. Our poverty at the time was grinding and difficult. So I looked forward to my first meeting at this man's home, seeing how the other side lived.

It was truly a gated community, and I had to be put on a list in order to be allowed past the guard shack. When I found the house, I was disappointed to find that it was outwardly not so great and in a state of slight disrepair. But nothing prepared me for the shock and disappointment of going inside. He practically had no furniture, and what furniture he had was in every bit as bad a condition as the furniture that we had. I could only speculate that all his money was going for the mortgage. And with all the other places in town he could have rented or bought, he probably only lived here in order to give out his impressive address to people as a sure-fire way to prove how successful his business was.*

Now, years later, I have seen this same scenario play out multiple times, Mormons living beyond their means in order to display an outward appearance of success, all the while actually being in the lower middle class or lower, no better off than we were. It is the stuff of white-washed sepulchres containing only the stinking bones of dead men.

Many have argued here on RfM that outward display of success is extremely important in Mormonism, probably in view of the fact that Mormon respect is gained only through Mormon leadership, and Mormon leadership only comes to those who are believed successful. Or something. I mean, God... Who knows why they do this. But they do.

*Turns out his business was not all that successful. Eventually he was forced to close it up and move out of town.

Those MORmONS are just working to be good citizen contributors to the economy because a person can make a living just by paying MORmON tithing. That is the secret to MORmON wealth. Apparently you did not know that.

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those MORmONS are just working to be good citizen
> contributors to the economy because a person can
> make a living just by paying MORmON tithing. That
> is the secret to MORmON wealth. Apparently you did
> not know that.


All right so I see the white priveledge thing and have lived it with both of our fathers being wealthy, but wow...I'm pretty sure they wouldn't buy us a house for appearances, lol!

So, tell me how does one make a living by TITHING? Seems counterproductive....?

Raiya Wrote:
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> So, tell me how does one make a living by
> TITHING? Seems counterproductive....?

Oh, did not you hear those tithing talks at church? The ones that said that's impossible for the (polygamy mandating Lower Head) Lord (MORmON Jesus) to be in debt to anyone? So (supposedly) just as soon as a person pays tithing, MORmON Jesus is obligated to fire up the heavenly blessings mill...... open the windows of heaven, and pour out a blessing upon you that is so great that there shall not be room enough for you to receive it.” (Mal. 3:10.)

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1974/04/i-will-pour-you-out-a-blessing?lang=eng

MORmON leaders have said so, and they are always right!!!! Just ask them !!!!!! .......and IF Jesus did not bless somebody that abundantly then it's obviously THEIR .....because its certainly not Jesus' fault !!!!

(please ignore the time that Brigham Young suspended tithing payments and the law of tithing when it would have been a most opportune time to prove the divine blessing power of MORmON Jesus and to receive those badly needed divine blessings as the economy of Utah collapsed due to Young's bungled dealing with the Transcontinental Rail Road construction in Utah)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwkFavjPsdE

Hey raiya..mormons love pissing contests...its a q15 approved sport...they and their children lead the charge ...its the sure sign of gawd likes them best cuz they have more money...the squeeze happens to those not in the money train...just trying to stay afloat without cob intervention...and like church its all about appearance...car house.. Boat....geez even the trophy wife...little mos do it like is that all says...borrow beg steal...realmos are past that...they just need to memorize all the words to the money tune and grandpa q15 will dribble some in their mouth...thru the veil of course...i mean really...does tommy need abomb proof audi...only cuz nobody else has one...yes they are that small...imntbho

A lot of people in moridor get what's called social inheritance and white privilege. Here is what David McKay had to say about that: "Every child is entitled to a respected name... The family gives to the child 'HIS' name and standing in the community. A child wants 'HIS' family to be 'AS GOOD' as those of his friends. He wants to be able to point with 'PRIDE' to 'HIS' father." (secrets to a happy life p15)

From observation most in the momo hierarchy and the leaders in the business world got where they are because they were born into families who could pull the strings, not because of some great intellect, or service to humanity. It isn't feasible for a poor immigrant to become a good doctor/lawyer/business leader, the cost is too prohibitive and the risks are too great if your not already born into money.

My question is why is there so many momo dentists that are sooo rich and don't seem to ever work? what kind of scam are they in on?

These guys have a really nice breakdown of bankruptcy rates.

Check out Salt Lake Counties Bankruptcy rate.

Some of them are really funny statistically if you know the population of the region (like Granite County, MT - Population 3183). One bankruptcy can send the rate skyrocketing.

https://www.lexingtonlaw.com/blog/bankruptcy/lexington-law-bankruptcy-report.html

First, most mormons are not wealthy. You can read many stories of not having food, medicine, utilities etc all so the great creator of the universe could get paid first.

On the other hand. It is not a case of how much you make as much as how much you keep.

Families with lots of kids often pay little or no income tax and qualify for lots of hand outs.

I had a neighbor that had a boat and camper. Never paid income tax until his kids were too old to claim and his wife couldn't produce more.

Then again they may just be frugal, good at gardening and have rich relatives.

The answer is borrowed money and over-extending themselves with debt. When the recession hit Utah, many, many people lost their homes.

Alright, I'll rephrase...every Mormon I know ( and we live in a highly Mormon area) appears to be doing extremely well. I hear the bankruptcy stuff, we did one before...we're still not as well off as the LDS folks. I'd still like to know how some make money from tithing. It just seems crazy! I'm not complaining at all about our lifestyle, but wondering how people with the same or less pay have more...mystery.

A friend of a friend in Utah also appeared to be doing extremely well. Very nice house, very nice car. Business flights on a private jet. He appeared to me to be borderline rich. He was one of those who lost his home when the market turned.

Appearances can be deceiving. And the Mormon church is all about appearances.

Mormons believe in self-reliance in what Paul taught "owe no man nothing." Perhaps the ones you know really take it to heart and are self employed and own their own businesses. Capital is usually inherited, My extended family has vast holdings of land used for cattle ranches and farms, which was acquired from land stolen from the Shoshone long ago. Most great fortunes are found from stealing, (like the wealth my relatives own which is most of cache valley)

Raiya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the LDS folks. I'd still like to know how some
> make money from tithing.

Its very simple, at least in principle. You convince some people that Jesus needs some money, then you convince the same people that you are supposed to collect the money for Jesus. When the money goes from the tithe payers bank account to your bank account, then you have made money off of god fraud = tithing.
An even more jacked up version of this scam is to convince people that they will never see their family members again in the next life unless they pay up on tithing, aka holding family members hostage in eternity. In any other context, a person could go to prison for making such demands on others, but when its done in the name of Jesus and Jesus is the heavy in the scenario, then its perfectly legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LA_Eusla4o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaYMdHNILw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9c6MUyHm9o


Larry Miller and Gordon BS Hinckley both heartily endorsed the concept of paying tithing. When Gordon Hinckley said " how grateful I am for tithing -the lord's law of finance", he was being unusually honest, at least in what he said, because tithing has financed Hinckley's lavish MORmON lifestyle and his life of ease and comfort since day one. Without tithing, the annoying deceitful little POS Hinckley would have been stuck with working for a living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIkVNWHT-IA

I never thought about this before, as the mormon families I grew up with were either doctors (rich) or super-thrifty to keep a house full of kids fed, but 'Trails end' reply to the OP got me to thinking that, like some other mormon multi level things that remind me of Amway, the Q15 reminds me of the high level Amway mucky mucks; you know, they live large and speak (much like evangelists) about the riches and success you'll achieve "upline". I remember a '60 Minutes' story years ago that showed Amway schlubs standing outside the gates of the top Amway guy like they were at Graceland, and thinking "Someday I'll have a mansion like this."

I guess many TBM's really do aspire to be like the God's Anointed Q15.

On the other hand, I know some TBM's that are horsey organic guitar playin' gun-shootin'on Saturday afternoon types, and they're a *lot* less stuck up & fake than the city-slicker types.

The caste system seems alive and well in mo dum...lucrative contracts for construction...even one supplier for all chairs in chapels...guess who...dividers in gyms...likely even that dam burlap on the wall was likely.the brainchild of an upper caste bunko...no bid contracts...someone posted a bit ago about one of the GAs wives receiving an upscale apartment then spending a few hundred thousand on rewiring on a new apartment...then each of her kids receiving 110 grand or so from her...a real bonus for any struggling young family...the church hardly felt it coming off their ass...creative accounting and those tiny little stipends

Anything that "looks prosperous" is used by the "Faux Rich" to the hilt.

I don't know how many TBMs I have come across who had absolutely no problem buying and wearing fake luxury watches, fake Coach and Louis Vuitton purses, and designer labels sewn into Target and TJ Maxx clothing.

Many would buy a bunch of hardback books for a couple of dollars at a thrift store or yard sale just to fill up bookshelves in their "study" or "home library" to look studious (maybe) or perhaps because "library scenes" are common in church videos, and motivational DVDs flogged by all the usual suspects.

Some had second or third cars on "perma-loan" from parents or in-laws, or referred to assets owned by other family members as their own, and didn't mind people thinking that they had a vacation lodge or ski boat when they didn't!

Like so many things Mormon, make believe and fake it til you make it are seen as absolutely ordinary and proper...

One formula I've seen:

Mom and Dad go first class
Kids go steerage

Disown ungrateful kids
Retire elsewhere



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2015 01:50AM by donbagley.

I call em five hundred dollar millionaires.

Or as they say down in Texas.....all hat, no cattle.

Interesting...have to say the ones I know don't flash designer stuff just seem wealthier than income would allow.

Many Mormon parents thrive on bragging about their righteous successful kids = they are then perfect, righteous parents...

This often translates into starting the newlyweds off in not a starter home but a $400,000 house, down payment and sometimes ten years of parent subsidized mortgage payments.

The math doesn't add up/equal the income, because it's an illusion. Phony, just like Mormonism.

My parents have some similar ways. They're generous but again, would never buy us a house. Wow! It's a shame it's all about appearances, though.

Sometimes, these people are truly rich in the same way that the top 15 in TSCC are truly "prophets, seers, and revelators."

In the 1950's my mother worked at a little known credit recording and reporting group established in Salt Lake by the local banks and merchants. This was long before credit cards and credit reports. The creditors paid their share of the expenses of the operation and called them when someone requested credit. My mom or one of the two other employees would pull their file (everything was manual back then) and discuss it with the creditor. The creditor would then decide whether or not to extend credit.

My mother told me that many of those deepest in debt were well known Mormon leaders (stake presidents and above). That's how it was done back them. I doubt if anything is any different today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2015 09:38PM by Templar.

Can I ask what your husband does for a living? I make less than most of my neighbors, but we have 4 kids and do okay. We can't afford to eat out every day and take big vacations, but we have a decent house and a couple of relatively new cars. I know people with no kids that spend 3 times more than we spend on food. The neighbors are always complaining about their water and electric bills on FB as well...they're twice as high as ours. We have cheap Internet, no cable, etc... We also save more than many of our neighbors that earn 50% more than me.

He works in heating and AC/refrigeration. He is a lead tech and dies some sales. Makes about 45k.

I meant "does" some sales. We're same as you not wasteful. We do like little vacations here and there.

They probably sell Noni Juice or Amway on the side.

Just kidding. That stuff makes you poorer, not richer.

The truth of it is that you'll probably never know how they are really doing financially. Maybe they are living beyond their income (debt). Maybe they have another source of income. Maybe they inherited something. Maybe they are super frugal.

When I was a Mormon there were several people in our ward who were very jealous of us and thought we were rich . We did have a nice house and we had two nice used cars . Our kids were well dressed . This is how we did it:

Like I said we had nice cars but they were used . We took really good care of the things that we had kept them cleaned and polished .that alone made it look like we had better things than everyone else

We bought a house that was in foreclosure and needed a lot of repairs . It was in a very nice neighborhood but had been vacant for four years . We worked our butts off and did everything ourselves . We shopped and shopped for the best deals that we could get and often bought used furniture appliances etc.

We lived a few miles from the richest neighborhood in town . I would go to every garage sale in that neighborhood . That's where I bought most of my kids clothes . Expensive things that I could never afford new . I also decorated my house the same way . I was not above picking furniture off the curb that other people were throwing in the garbage . I would repaint it refinish it and sell it so I could have the money to go buy something I really wanted .

For years we never took a vacation . We would camp out in our own backyard complete with a tent and camp fire the kids loved it . Nobody ever gave us anything . We were creative and put in a lot of work to have nice things . It would annoy me when people would make snide remark's about us being rich sometimes these comments were made by people who had way more money than we did . Oh the other thing I did was that I only had two children . I didn't want any more than that it had nothing to do with money . I could never figure out though why people kept having kids when they couldn't feed or care for the ones they already had . Didn't make any sense to me.

We probably weren't the best Mormons you could find . We would pay our tithing two years on and two years off . When we didn't pay we deducted and free cost from our tithing that we had spent toward anything that had to do with church . That included gas to and from food that was donated etc. Funny thing is , nobody ever said anything to us about that . We would have temple recommends for two years, those two years we didn't pay tithing . After that we would start paying it again and then go in and get new recommends for two more years. It was a system that that worked and we paid less than half the tithing most mormons. We called ourselves Foltyn payers because we paid as much as we were willing to pay and that was it .0

Sorry about the typos in the post above . I am using my phone and it's a pain .

Does anyone else think that most people enjoy seeing successful people fail? Is there ever a situation in which people are genuinely happy for people who succeed. Some wealthy people have earned every penny of their money by working their tails off and spending less than they make-like Sister hi I agree that the bragging about riches is very annoying. I am bracing myself for the upcoming Christmas letters:)

One thing to remember is you don't know if they have inherited wealth or if their parents gifted them with a downpayment. Whenever I knew a friend's salary, and their house value left me scratching my head in wonder, eventually they'd say something about how they had been given a nice chunk of money from a family member who passed or was being helpful to the young couple. I hope I can help my kids like that someday.