as a way to "cure" their homosexuality? The practice certainly happened enough to make one think it was more than just the work of a few local leaders. Anyone know?

Also part 2 question, how many here personally know someone who was as a gay man counseled to marry a woman. Or as a woman counseled to marry a gay man as a way to help them 'recover.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 06:52PM by badseed.

All I know is that a few years ago Elder Oaks made some remarks about the policy of the church, that it did not encourage homosexuals to marry, and exected them to live a life of celibacy like any other single member. And if they found they had an attraction to a member of the opposite sex, to go ahead and marry them.

I imagine that since that statement there hasn't been a lot of it.

Prior to the late 1990s it seems to have been fairly common for LDS leaders to tell young gay men— many who became aware their orientation at an early age— that they were in fact not gay and that they should marry a woman and eventually through righteous living would become straight. Many said or implied that after have sex with a woman that these men would be cured or at least cured after time in a hetero marriage.

Does anyone know if CHI in the past 30 years have ever suggested this counsel and method to LDS leaders? Edited to add: Did the Church ever officially promote such counsel?



Tough question to answer I know. Just wondering.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 04:56PM by badseed.

TAKE PARTICULAR NOTE OF THE SECOND PARAGRAPH:

ELDER OAKS: We are sometimes asked about whether marriage is a remedy for these feelings that we have been talking about. President Hinckley, faced with the fact that apparently some had believed it to be a remedy, and perhaps that some Church leaders had even counseled marriage as the remedy for these feelings, made this statement: “Marriage should not be viewed as a therapeutic step to solve problems such as homosexual inclinations or practices.” To me that means that we are not going to stand still to put at risk daughters of God who would enter into such marriages under false pretenses or under a cloud unknown to them. Persons who have this kind of challenge that they cannot control could not enter marriage in good faith.

On the other hand, persons who have cleansed themselves of any transgression and who have shown their ability to deal with these feelings or inclinations and put them in the background, and feel a great attraction for a daughter of God and therefore desire to enter marriage and have children and enjoy the blessings of eternity — that’s a situation when marriage would be appropriate
___________________

Now honestly, does that sound like he is telling gays not to marry?

and YES, YES, YES I was counseled to marry someone gay and he was counseled to marry me. We were told he was damned if he didn't CHANGE his orientation.

We married for many reasons--one was to get the MFkers out of our lives--to get the voyeurs out of our lives. I learned more about sex from the church leaders than I learned anywhere else.

My dad asked me several times before he died--"You wouldn't have married him if you had known he was gay, right?" I finally told him the leaders told me it was my job to save him. My dad was furious.

I'm sure somewhere we have the documents that were sent from Packer to our bishop in 1984--a story of a guy who had lived the gay "lifestyle" (whatever that is supposed to be) and how he had chosen to live as a straight man because it was a much more fulfilling life (not one of those gutter type lives, you know).

What we went through was a travesty. I'm okay now. I am glad I married who I did as he is still my best friend and I love him dearly--BUT just the other day, I heard a song on the radio from the time we were going through that stuff. I was SUICIDALLY DEPRESSED for 18 months before I married him. I didn't want to die--I wanted to cease to exist. I have NO IDEA how I survived it all. No idea.

On the other thread--some guy named peter said that people who have experienced the "spiritual" aren't as easily led out of the church. I experienced the spiritual--I also experienced the mind fuck of the spiritual. I call it my own intuition--not anything spiritual. The thing is--once you break down that spiritual that you associate with the church, once you break down the bullshit they feed you about gays--life is all pretty simple. It doesn't have to be this complex mind fuck they throw at us.

Sorry for the rant. I GET FURIOUS any time anyone tries to say they don't still condone gays marrying. This problem isn't going away anytime soon.

He's gay and they both knew it. Bishop promised he would turn straight. Twenty years and six kids later he's still gay, of course, and she is sexually frustrated because she never gets any.

They are still married but he is hiding his sexuality less and less lately. I don't know if he will openly declare his orientation but it isn't much of a secret. They attend church and have callings. They wear the Mormon facade like a mask.

My heart aches for both of them.

Stunted

a few who are living life just like the couple you mentioned here.

One of his high school buddies--maybe once a year, he'll contact him, tell him he has always loved him, etc. The guy is in the bishopric. When he told his wife he was gay (about 15 years ago), she said, "THERE WILL BE NO DIVORCE." Last time he contacted him, they texted for 4 hours straight. He was laying in bed late at night. His wife was up sewing. He says she never comes to bed until the wee hours of the morning. They have 8 kids--been married over 30 years. He cheats on a semi-regular basis.

We know several couples like this--let alone the ones who approach my ex REGULARLY here in Utah just to have a roll in the hay who are married, in their 50s, and will never leave their wives.

I really think the percentage is much higher than 10% gays in Utah.

It doesn't mention marrying straight women.

I've heard that they did officially recommend that about 20 years ago.

The gay bishop (came out later) I had in my early teens said, after coming out, that he was counseled to go on a mission (early 70's) and get married (mid 70's). His priesthood leader(s?) knew of his homosexual tendencies prior to his mission.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 05:17PM by Truthseeker.

I have heard of at least 8-10 stories relating this same thing on varies podcasts and web boards but have never know anyone personally who had this happen to them.

I talk to ex-wives of gays daily. AND some are young women in their 20s, 30s with little kids whose husbands are now coming out. I posted Oaks real statements.

Gemini from this board also married someone gay. I don't know if a leader told her husband to marry or not.

Another girl who posts here married someone gay. MANY who post here married someone gay--they just don't always talk about it on here like I do.

If I could post Emily Pearson's blog--there are MANY stories there of women who married someone gay.

I'm one of the few who KNEW he was gay before I married him. We were counseled by our bishop, our next bishop, my friend a bishop, the SP and BKP to marry . . . and the LDS SS therapist, too.

The 1970 publication "Hope for Transgressors" (http://www.connellodonovan.com/transgressors.html) distributed to local PH leaders encouraged those leaders with particularly difficult cases to contact [Quorum of the Twelve] President Spencer W. Kimball and Elder Mark E. Petersen if they needed specific assistance. As men worked through the curative and repentance processes, leaders are counseled:

"When you feel he is ready, he should be encouraged to date and to gradually move his life toward the normal….If they will close the door to intimate associations with their own sex and open it wide to that of the other sex, of course in total propriety, and then be patient and determined, gradually they can move their romantic interests where they belong. Marriage and normal life can follow."

A year later, "New Horizons for Homosexuals" (http://www.connellodonovan.com/horizons.html) was published as a pamphlet and handed out to gay men with about the same kind of recommendations.

As late as 1981, church publications about homosexuality said, "Modern day prophets have clearly promised that homosexuality can be changed." It encouraged leaders to counsel gay men to set social goals, including "encourage the member to be in appropriate situations with members of the opposite sex, even if he has to force himself"; "encourage him (if single) to begin dating and gradually increase its frequency"; "have him read church pamphlets, 'To the One', 'A Letter to a Friend', and 'To Young Men Only'."

Seems to me that the church could legally say, "We're not telling people to go get married in order to cure their same-sex attractions." But dating women and getting married is clearly evidence of a cure, and both were (are?) encouraged. And I'm sure there are leaders who truly believed that marriage would fix things - a good woman will make you forget all those men.

If you begin with the premise that "homosexuality can be changed" and you spend a significant amount of time and energy trying to change, you kind of need to show your efforts are progressing and haven't been a waste of time.

If being homosexual was the orientation of the majority, and the church claimed heterosexual relations as evil, and if they recommended that I could be cured by having sex with a man, I would tell the leaders to go f@$& themselves...

I sure as he'll hope they didn't encourage gays to marry someone of the opposite sex, but it probably happened often.

LDS homosexuals are sure on a rough path

Fuck yes!! My ex is gay, his partner was married. I did not know he was gay. he thought he was when he went on a mission, the mp said no, go and you will be fine. then go home, byu and get married and you will be fine.

So 24 years later, hell. So, his partner also married, he knew he was and so did she. Believed he would be cured, now divorced after 25 years and kids, we have one ourselves.

Fucking pisses me off, there are still couples doing this and being advised to do it. WTF. If fucking ruins lives and I am angry right now. My ex told me of all the members of our old ward who he thought was gay, so I guess I'll see in another 10 years when their lives fall apart.

It is the hardest on the kids. My kid has been through hell and back, and hell again. It's not like you can tell all your friends, yeah, my dad is gay. You want to spend the night?? Especially in Utah.

Stupid fucking church, wish we could all sue, it would be billions, or maybe we could get the mall.....

FUCKING BASTARDS!!!!

I knew there were others on here and I think you've mentioned your ex is gay before.

THIS I CAN SAY--(it seems you live in Utah County)--what we've experienced now that we are ALL out of the closet (and it was my daughter at age 14 who started telling everyone), it is A LOT easier. We are just OUT THERE. At first, I would have a meltdown every time someone found out. All my kids' friends know. They are both 25. My daughter actually gets a lot of mileage out of it with mormons because she is TBM right now (though she had one guy tell her--when she dumped him--"but he was willing to put up with her family situation).

All my son's friends are very aware of the situation and they are really good about it. Several of them went on vacation with my son and his dad--and most of my son's friends are FB friends with my ex.

BUT, like you, I am still very angry about what happened. NOBODY GETS IT unless they've been through it. For me, we've found a happy medium. Most gay/straight couples don't.

AND the thing that the leaders DON'T GET is that by marrying us off to someone gay, BOTH OF US are in a relationship that is wrong for us. Just because he is a man doesn't make it okay for we females. It is very damaging to us.

This is the reason I am still here. There are issues that come up DAILY in my life or the lives of people I know that are directly related to gays marrying straights.

Now--for those of you who haven't read the stuff from Oaks above--HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT TO BE YOUR DAUGHTER that

A GAY FEELS A GREAT ATTRACTION FOR and decides he wants the full blessings of a temple marriage?

Let's use our daughters (and sons) as lab rats. Okay. Sounds good to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 10:39AM by cl2.

"It's not like you can tell all your friends, yeah, my dad is gay. You want to spend the night??"

Actually you can do exactly that. It's surprising how open-minded most kids are. Some even think it's "cool."

I kinda knew it was the case that the Church had been telling gay people to marry people of the opposite sex. There are too many stories where it has happened for it to be just a local leadership thing.

Anyway I saw these uninformed TBMs posting on online about how they knew the Church would never do that. I set them straight but wanted to get more info.

Thanks.

I have two LDS friends who marry gay men in the temple, but neither knew it.

One went through the heartache of a 5-year unconsummated marriage, never understanding why he didn't want to be with her. I used to be very angry with him for putting her through that, but then began to realize that he was probably counselled to marry her. It would have been nice if she could have been in on it though, instead of having her self-esteem killed in the process.

The other was blind-sided by his announcement after over 20 years and 6 kids later. She treated him pretty badly, so I tend to be on his side on that one. But both are my friends and I love them dearly. I'm sure she feels like 20 years of her life have simply been invalidated and that hurts, which is probably why she lashed out.

It's just ugly and heart-breaking all round.