Hello all,

I just got some disturbing information regarding my son and his family. He is living in an RV full time. This is a family of SEVEN! The oldest child being 17 years old and the youngest about 9 or ten.

My son and his wife are 35 years old! My other son, who is very successful and works for Facebook, said that his brother showed up in Menlo Park and wanted to meet with him.

My son who works at FB said his brother was like a cartoon character and was stiff as a board when he tried to give him a hug. This was in July of this year. And he hasn't been able to make contact with him since. He said that the older girl couldn't write, but she could draw. This five children do not initiate interaction with anyone, including their uncle.

I am very concerned. I have done some research and this is what I suspect. I suspect, they tried to put their oldest daughter into a school and we're reported to social services due to educational neglect. I believe the older girl's " education " was stunted due to her having to help raise her younger siblings.

I believe they are RVing full time in a 300 SF vehicle to avoid having their children taken away.

Immature parents are shamed based and all they have and " own" are there childern . My son uses arbitrary disapline , because I witnessed it when they asked to to live with them to help with their third child back in 2004.

This has been going on for at least 12 years.

Please read this link and give me some advice:

http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/policy-issues/abuse-and-neglect/abuse-in-homeschooling-environments/#introduction

That sounds like a bad situation. You should probably try to find out more about the situation, and contact DCFS (or maybe that association you linked to) to see what they can recommend. If he lives on the road, I don't know what they can do or what jurisdiction would handle it.

I would be concerned, too. It sounds like you are not very close to their family, though? Can you get closer and see for yourself if there may be something going on? What does your other son think? I hope they are ok, and nothing too bad is going on.

Not a big fan of home schooling.I'm sure there are sucess stories out there. Here, in Utah, I have 2 sets of acquaintances/friends that have home schooled their 2 & 3 kids, respectively. Both families are Evangelical Christians & home school to keep their kids away from "mormon indoctrination". Neither of the Moms are teachers. All the kids seem to read, write & be able to do math at least one grade behind. All the kids are socially awkward. The oldes girl had to go to public high school last year. She has been struggling with school & has discipline & attitude issues. Almost got expelled. A lot depends on the parents ability to teach as well as understanding the subject matter (ever try to do your kid's 9th grade AP Geometry, after being out of school for 25 years?). Both families seem to lack discipline & the kids teaching isn't very structured.
I feel that the kids will be at a significant disadvantage trying to graduate & move on in life.

My wife has been called in to help home schooled kids who where behind in courses. Most of the time there is major gaps in their education. Generally in topics where the parents don't have a strong education in.

In her experience homeschool children who are falling behind are commonly socially maladapted as well. The good homeschool programs insist on social interaction with others. The children's behavior in this context is not that strange.

If you are worried that they are trying to hide from authorities then the only answer is to report them. The welfare of the children is what matters

Ok, homeschooling mom here.

The article linked to in your post is way off base and probably not very helpful. It is full of negative "extreme" inferences and gross exaggeration. Homeschooling doesn't mean abuse or awkward, slow children any more than public school or private school means bright successful children.

Every child, every situation, every family is different.

Homeschooling families (in my experience) are just as diverse and different as public or private schooling families.

Okay.... "I'm officially off my soapbox" Just feeling fiesty after all that turkey.

my niece has been teaching math in a northern Davis County Jr. High School for 17 years. Her assessment of students who were "Home Schooled" through 6th and then came into the public system beginning in Jr. High (a common practice, I hear) is that most, I say again for the same emphasis she put on it "MOST" of those kids are way behind and socially retarded.

I don't have any data from "Studies" and I don't know any other teachers, that is just one teachers experience. FWIW

I think most teachers agree. My Dh teaches middle school math, and is appalled by the neglect he sees when these kids show up.

My mother was not quite sane. I just shudder to think of spending an aerly life with no escape from her.

I think that you are right to say homeschooling families are very diverse. Some do it exceptionally well. Sadly this is not the norm.

We have neighbors who are homeschoolers. She is a certified teacher and he is a principle in a homeschooling company. They have the kids in a lot of activities and constant social situations. The kids are still a bit awkward but not bad. They are still young so we'll see how they do once they are teenagers.

The biggest issue is a lot of parents homeschool for religious or other fanatical reasons (not all). Most of them don't put the time, energy, and effort into it. Homeschooling is really labor intensive for the parents. Teaching each child their own curriculum with limited training and support is not easy.

I've seen good and bad - and I haven't seen test results of either so I couldn't judge. Just observations here.

But in my area there are a lot of homeschooling families and they mostly seem very together and responsible. They all seem to participate in co-ops, especially at the high school level, so that the kids can get the higher-level subjects taught by the parents that are the best in those subjects.

The one family I worried about some did it all on their own, seemed very back-woods-ish, rather unkempt, and one of the boys was shockingly far behind in reading, I'd guess about 4 years or so behind. The mom cared, but didn't seem to have a clue. She asked about regulations and such in our state (they had just moved here), so I introduced her to the best homeschool mom I knew, who also directed a co-op, but I don't think she followed up. They moved away in less than I year I think.

Part of the beauty of homeschooling, though, is that you don't NEED to be so regimented. You cater to the precise needs of your child and at the rate that they can progress at. Certainly you'd have to develop self control and good work habits, but I would expect them to "look" different from kids in schools. The homeschool moms I see seem to be pretty tight task masters.

Is there any help that could be expected from your ex-husband, the boys' father?

Do you have any ideas regarding their income streams? Are they completely CA based?

I'd be very concerned about your grandkids!

Thank you all for your support. No, this son and I have not spoken since 2004. He filled a restraining order against me in 2006 because I intervened. And then another in 2011 when I tried again.

Sadly, my extended family is somewhat shamed based and would not really get the gravity of the situation.

I'm sorry.

I browsed the linked site, especially the invisible children link from there.

I searched "educational neglect," and found this:
http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/policy-issues/current-policy/educational-neglect-statutes/

A 17 year-old who can't read is serious neglect. That none of the five kids will make eye contact or speak is indicative of other kinds of abuse.

These kids need help, and if the authorities start arguing about jurisdiction, I would let them know that you and your attorney are documenting their responses, should a lack of action, names and dates, become a legal or public matter. Send certified, return receipt follow-ups "per my meeting/cnversation" with ... on 12/1/15, ..." documenting the substance. Let them know you are not going away.

I'm surprised that FB son has

*... sorry, phone behaving badly


... surprised ...has not brought it up since July.

anonfornow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry.
>
> I browsed the linked site, especially the
> invisible children link from there.
>
> I searched "educational neglect," and found this:
> http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/policy-iss
> ues/current-policy/educational-neglect-statutes/
>
> A 17 year-old who can't read is serious neglect.
> That none of the five kids will make eye contact
> or speak is indicative of other kinds of abuse.
>
> These kids need help, and if the authorities start
> arguing about jurisdiction, I would let them know
> that you and your attorney are documenting their
> responses, should a lack of action, names and
> dates, become a legal or public matter. Send
> certified, return receipt follow-ups "per my
> meeting/cnversation" with ... on 12/1/15, ..."
> documenting the substance. Let them know you are
> not going away.
>
> I'm surprised that FB son has

A situation came up in my residency that was similar but nowhere near as serious as the one you've described. At that time, or at least I was told at the time, agencies only have jurisdiction for as long as the individuals involved are physically present within the agency's boundaries until official action is taken Agencies are slow to take action when a family is likely to move on in a matter of days or hours.

Anonfornow is right on the mark in recommending documentation and letting the agencies know you are documenting as a way of forcing them to intervene in some way. No agency charged with the welfare of children wants the metaphorical egg of total inaction all over their faces when something really horrible happens or grave abuse or neglect comes to light.

Good luck. It sounds as though your grandchildren need every bit of luck they can get working in their favor.

It sounds as if getting them taken away is the lesser of two evils.

What's your take on your DIL? Is she part of the problem, or just another victim?

Wow what a tragic story .

Sounds like there is nothing you can do to help your own son

and grandchildren since he has a restraining order against you.

How sad. I guess the only option open to you since they want

nothing to do with you is to report them to CPS... it also

sounds like that would be difficult since you seem to be

assuming alot of things about their situation. How about your

exhusband , their father .... does he know of this situation?

Is is talking to them? He might be the only help for them ...

Best of luck to you and please let us know how things are going

You can go to your local CPS with your concerns, but given that your son is living in a RV, there may be little they can do to track him down. Anyone can make a report to CPS when abuse or neglect is suspected. Some workers such as teachers and health professionals are required to do so. Neglect has a fairly broad definition and definitely includes a failure to provide for a child's education. However in practice I've sometimes seen CPS only deal with the very worst cases.

You might find these government websites helpful:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/define/

https://childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/neglect/

There is additional information here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_neglect

Give them the RV license plate and the last known location. An abusive parent on the run is far more dangerous than one fixed in one spot.

That's a good thought. And if the local CPS seems unresponsive, try the one in the state where the RV is registered or last seen. If CPS wants to pursue it, the police can be on the lookout for the vehicle.

I am also afraid of possible sexual abuse of the childern. I am a victim and recovering of childhood sexual abuse. So if the wife is not putting out or in any other way not available, a controlling a domineering father will take his needs elsewhere which is the most convenient .

What drew my son and his wife together is shame. She lost her mother at the age of 10. And my son's father is gravely disabled with paranoid schizophrenia.

All though I am a retired mandated reporter (RN ) , I don't think the social service system works. It would just cause more shame and at least they have each other at least.

Any more " intervention" could cause a tragic event like putting a hose into the running RV exhaust pipe and running into the closed up Rv . It happens. I think it happened last year to one of these types of families.

I didn't expect to get this news when I was having a nice catch up dinner with the FB son. My heart was open and now I need to process it and somehow find support for myself,because I don't think anything can be done, unfortunately for this homeschooling son.

I just now did call the child abuse hotline in the county of their last known address, just to get it off my chest. Now it is in their lap. So, now maybe I can go about my day and sleep a little but better. Because of the past restraining orders I did not give my name or telephone number.

We all here about these type is things in the newspapers, but when it is so close to home and heart it is unnerving. I think my son told me because it is unnerving to him too.

I did email the link to my FB son and told him to report it also and if his brother shows up again, to get the License plate of the Rv if he could. If several people report it, then maybe something could be done. I also emailed the link to my extended family, and said to them, if no action is taken, then I can say I told you so. Same with the social services people, sadly.

That is all we can do, I am afraid.

No, I divorced the father when my childern were babies. No, I don't have that burden, thank god .

It sounds as though you've done all you can do for now. Good luck.

lue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just now did call the child abuse hotline in the
> county of their last known address, just to get it
> off my chest. Now it is in their lap. So, now
> maybe I can go about my day and sleep a little but
> better. Because of the past restraining orders I
> did not give my name or telephone number.
>
> We all here about these type is things in the
> newspapers, but when it is so close to home and
> heart it is unnerving. I think my son told me
> because it is unnerving to him too.
>
> I did email the link to my FB son and told him to
> report it also and if his brother shows up again,
> to get the License plate of the Rv if he could. If
> several people report it, then maybe something
> could be done. I also emailed the link to my
> extended family, and said to them, if no action is
> taken, then I can say I told you so. Same with the
> social services people, sadly.
>
> That is all we can do, I am afraid.

it's unfortunate that children are involved.

You are given guardianship over your children; you don't own them. Parents who think they own their children are never willing to take responsibility for them once they hit adulthood.

If you unleash your child onto the world ignorant, lacking basic skills, or broken from abuse, then you have not only failed yourself, you have created a burden for society.

I adamantly oppose homeschooling because parents do not have all the skills to guide their children to adulthood. Many abuses are uncovered by school teachers. They see hundreds of children so they know when something is not right. If you suspect these children are being mistreated or undereducated, you must report them.

A child is not like your sink. You cannot throw him away if he breaks. Instead, you unleash him on society, prepared or not for adulthood.

She can make reports until her face is purple, but child welfare agencies are known for passing the buck in any instances where they CAN, and this would seem to be one of those situations. She seems to want to make a report that will actually accomplish something by way of protecting the children and not simply to further add fuel to this inferno of a situation.

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are given guardianship over your children; you
> don't own them. Parents who think they own their
> children are never willing to take responsibility
> for them once they hit adulthood.
>
> If you unleash your child onto the world ignorant,
> lacking basic skills, or broken from abuse, then
> you have not only failed yourself, you have
> created a burden for society.
>
> I adamantly oppose homeschooling because parents
> do not have all the skills to guide their children
> to adulthood. Many abuses are uncovered by school
> teachers. They see hundreds of children so they
> know when something is not right. If you suspect
> these children are being mistreated or
> undereducated, you must report them.
>
> A child is not like your sink. You cannot throw
> him away if he breaks. Instead, you unleash him
> on society, prepared or not for adulthood.

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

It may be difficult if the family is not physically within a given police department's jurisdiction or even if said abuse didn't necessarily happen there.

Moreover, the children's grandmother seems to be concerned that if the authorities show up to follow up on reported abuse, then leave with warnings or pending a deeper investigation without removing any children, the children may be in more danger than ever.

I'm not suggesting she shouldn't report. I am saying both that getting an agency to respond will be difficult and that even if said agency does respond, the danger will not necessarily be over.

It's a complex situation.

"adamantly oppose homeschooling..."


That's a broad statement. How about compelling those who wish to avoid the pitfalls of public education to prove that they are sound enough to do so, including fees to cover the process?

If they can't come up with, say, the $500 -$1000 application process fee, how could they possibly provide all that is needed to educate a child? A parent claiming the ability to educate a child should have no problem passing tests to demonstrate the knowledge to teach math, English and science. From birth to six years old is plenty of time to save and prepare. Failing that, the capability does not exist.

Public school teachers study for years to learn the skills to teach students. In middle school and high school, these teachers have specialized knowledge of science, math, language, social studies, athletics, study skills and job skills.

If you want to avoid public schools, then go to an accredited private school. Your child will not be prepared for the world based on your own limited worldview.

Any parent who thinks he/she can give a child everything is a narcissist. The real reason most people want to homeschool is to avoid exposing their kids to worldly evils like Darwinism and homosexuals.

Homeschooling parents don't think they can give their kids everything. That's a ridiculous statement. We search libraries, websites, tutors, every source we can get to help them learn a subject. Wether or not we are experts in it.

What we do have is passion. A passion for helping our children learn for themselves. To be objective. To verify everything for themselves and not just take the word of a teacher, ecclesiastical leader or other autority figure as "truth".

As a result of homeschooling, I/we have spent a great deal of time with other homeschoolers. And let me say, that the socially awkward, backward, slow homeschooling kid sterotype is the exception and not the norm.

End of rant. ....again!

Yeah I agree, you need help for yourself since you have the issue of childhood molestation and being married to a paranoid
schizophrenic... Yikes Lou... he must have been that way when you married him since the onset for Schizohphrenia is around late teens and early twenties.

You are like on the Titanic watching it sink aren't you?

Get some help for yourself and maybe then you can reach out

to your children if they let you.

No, I divorced cheer father when my children were babies, thank god. I don't have that burden.

Even this homeschooling advocacy group recognize that homeschooling can serve to cover child abusers:

http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/policy-issues/abuse-and-neglect/abuse-in-homeschooling-environments/#introduction

Homeschooling allows abusive parents to isolate their children and hide their abuse in a way they could not if their children attended school. As a result, the lives of abused children who are homeschooled are substantively different from the lives of abused children who attend public school.

Physical Abuse
Abusive parents who homeschool their children do not have to worry about a teacher noticing or reporting their children’s bruises or other physical manifestations of abuse. This allows them to push farther and abuse their children in more extreme ways than they might otherwise.

Verbal & Emotional Abuse
Homeschooled children who are verbally or emotionally abused may have nowhere to go for respite or a break from their abuse. They may also have no one to contradict their parents' abusive and manipulative messages. Children homeschooled by narcissistic or mentally unstable parents may be especially at risk. Read more.

Confinement & Food Deprivation
Homeschooling gives abusive parents the ability to deprive their children of food or confine them permanently. In some cases, children have been starved to death or kept locked in their rooms for years. This is one way abuse in homeschooling situations differs substantively from abuse of children who attend school.


Isolation & Totalistic Families
In some cases, homeschooling families become cult-like as abusive parents’ desire for absolute control melds with extreme religious ideas. These situations may be characterized by brutal beatings, long-term rape and incest, and a brainwashed fear of the authorities, though less severe situations may be no less harmful.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2015 01:46PM by axeldc.

Looks to me like the FB son is the one with the eye-witness account and therefore the one with the opportunity, but not the obligation, to report his concerns, if any.

Lue, please don't misunderstand. I share your concerns and feel your anxiety. But as far as I can tell, they are based on your FB son's account plus your not-too-recent contact. As a current required reporter, I can assure you that an agency is not going to kick into action based on your second-hand account accompanied by fears and suspicions. FB son has to be the one to report.

- - -

By the way, everyone, what does any of this have to do with homeschooling? So far I've seen nothing that would indicate that RV son and DIL are doing anything whatsoever in the way of homeschooling.

JAR

Your son has some problems. Did you homeschool him?