some of you may already know my story, but for those who do not I'm going to give you some background.

I am a nevermo

My best friend is BIC with a convert dad, two siblings and a BIC mother. *note* I adore her family. They are all really sweet people that get along with all their nevermo neighbors because honestly their are not a lot of lds where I'm from and they chose not to limit their social circle to members. That being said they are as TBM as a person can be in this area. Parents are temple goers, home teachers, and visit elderly shut in members on sundays.

So here's my rant.

Where the heck does this church get off taking advantage of these people? They have given them everything, and they're still reaching into their pockets. My friend told me her family is struggling financially. They had to cancel her little brother's piano lessons. The kid has more natural talent than he knows what to do with, and now he won't be able to develop it. It's tearing the parents apart. Speaking of them their date nights according to my friend have consisted of them doing free stuff, or sharing meals.

Yet they are stocked up on food storage....Two year supply.

Because the prophet said so.

All the companies the lds recommend for food storage are owned by the damn church. Tithing is one thing, but they are reaching for far more than ten percent when they take all their time, all their thought space, and now it seems the rest of their money.

I'm mad, because I care about this people, and they're being robbed. Haven't they given enough? One of their daughters(my friends sister) served a mission for two years. They tithe every sunday. They give so much of their time to the church. The church has given them nothing back. They place financial burdens on the family and then make her father feel inadequate when he can't provide, so he's too ashamed to ask for help. and if he did who would help them?

My friends brother is extremely talented, and shouldn't have to sacrifice his God given gift for the church.

My friends parents are genuine, caring, loving people. They should not have to give up date nights.

My friend is one of the best individuals I've ever met. She shouldn't have to feel this burden, or watch her family struggle.

I want to jolt them awake, but I don't know how.

They say "by thy fruits you shall know them"

There is no fruit. They are starving.

Starving for love.

Starving for freedom financially.

And now literal starving.

The only "fruit" is the family itself, and the church is choking the life out of them.

It's hard to watch.

I know some people who were struggling financially, desperately needed a more reliable car and some home repairs. They were almost certainly paying a full tithe on their meager income. That tithing would have been enough for a modest car payment.

My friend's elderly mother had to choose between paying tithing on her social security income or buying her medications. It drove my friend nuts to see this.

People shouldn't feel obligated to pay tithing until their needs are met, and this includes enjoying life and saving for the future. The church should NOT encourage people to live below poverty level to pay tithing.

I hate that a cult can twist the minds of its adherents into believing that the outward showing of obedience is of such primal importance.

Do these people imagine a ghawd so interested in them personally that despite their correct observance of his rules, he's decided to withhold the promised blessings, because he wants to test them? Do they think they're special that way, and will receive even greater rewards later?

Or do they just soldier on, not even thinking about the lack of the material blessings mormons are so goddam proud of?

And the thing is, the Mormon church doesn't need nearly that much money. I looked it up once, and found that the average church donation in the U.S. is 2.6% of income. Most churches view donations not as gifts to God, but as money necessary to pay the church mortgage, heat the building, pay staff, etc. And those churches do all that and more on a quarter of the income that Mormons expect.

Since local positions in the Mormon church are unpaid, they should need even less money than other churches do.

And there is no financial accountability. If you google "[Denomination] church budget" you will get numerous examples of church budgets. Most church-goers in the U.S. know exactly where their money is going because their churches feel accountable to their members. The arrogant Mormon church feels no such need for accountability.

I hate that this "church", who so firmly claims to do "so much good" for people, would strangle their faithful like this. I posted in another thread about my mom going through a similar situation, actually. What hurts most is that afterward, once they pull through, some even see being able to make ends meet as a blessing. My relationship with my mom is often rocky because of the TBM drivel she forces on people, but even when I convince myself I hate her, I still don't think anyone deserves to be bled dry in their hour of need.

My family has always been poor for no reason, because of the stingy and greedy corporation that didn't want us anyway. We all have a lot of other dysfunctions, but this is one of the biggest things that has always done the most damage.

Do you know of any local charities that might be able to help? Many of them are hiding in plain sight, like a food bank or even another church. The Catholics gave us help a few times, without a second thought. I hope these good people can pull through, and maybe even see the harm tithing is doing before it's too late.

There are a couple of good charities out there in my neighborhood. Most of them were formed by the church I grew up in and stuck around once it disbanded. They didn't stop doing good just because the church shut its doors.

The trick is convincing someone they are in need. Ever hear the story about the drowning man? A lifeguard tried to save him, and he said "No, I'm fine God will save me" Well he predictably dies, and when he meets God he asks Him why he didn't save his life. God says "I sent you a lifeguard, what more did you want?"

I feel like that's where they are right now. They don't actually see that they are drowning, and are content to wait for a miracle, when like you said many are "hiding in plain sight"

if you study income and taxes, you learn that "regressive" taxes are the ones that hit lower income people the hardest.

For example, sales tax hits lower income people harder as a % of their total income because they have to spend everything they make to survive. So, everything they get is taxed as they spend it.

Higher income people have extra, so they can save/invest more, "spend" less of their total income, and as a result sales tax is a lower % of their overall income.

Tithing is a very regressive tax. When you are making 2,500 per month, 250 dollars is A LOT OF MONEY, it is probably all of your disposable income after you pay your bills. When you are making 10,000 per month, 1,000 is a much lower hit to your disposable income.

Tithing is brutal on the lower income families...the ones who can least afford it. Ten percent of their gross income is probably 40 or 50 percent of their disposable income after they pay living expenses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2016 06:12PM by danboyle.

Exactly. For a short time I worked for an investment/securities company in Orem. At the end of the year a bunch of people made appointments to come in and meet with their investment advisor. The purpose was to tell him how much they needed from their account to pay tithing. They only paid tithing once a year.

They'd have a million of inherited money or from some windfall or whatever sitting in their accounts, but most probably had jobs that earned less than 100k a year. So their accounts still grew year by year even after they made a withdrawl for tithing. All tithing was to them was a yearly social visit to the company, pick up their check, take it in to tithing settlement and hand to the bishop and get their big gold star. They didn't feel a thing. No sacrifice, no burden, nothing.

But when we were BYU married students with 2 kids, the $50 from our monthly $500 G.I. Bill check was a huge burden. I didn't even go to the temple for endowments but it was that time of life where all our friends and family members were getting married and I wanted to keep a recommend to go to weddings. So we paid it and ate more peanut butter than a person should ever have to ingest.

But who are the ones getting up in Sacrament Meeting and extolling the virtues of tithing? The ones who don't even feel it. If "the brethren" felt any burden from paying tithing, all they have to do is give themselves a 10% raise in their "modest living allowance." But for lower income families, it is such a big percentage of their expendable income and trust me, they feel it big time.

Ah....You are seeing the light. You are seeing the reason so many of us hang-out on this board. We are so frustrated that our loved ones are literally killing themselves for their delusion and we can do nothing for them. The more we protest the more they believe us to be sent from Satan to tempt them away from righteous behavior.

Something you said: "...they take all their time, all their thought space, and now it seems the rest of their money" is very revealing. Your words are almost an exact quote from the temple ceremony that every good Mormon swears before they can get married or go on a mission. More precisely they swear to give "all they have which includes their time, talents, all with which the Lord has blessed them and all that they may be blessed with in the future". This is no lie. They even swear to give what they don't yet have! I swore this oath in the temple until one day I realized I'd just sold my soul to a corporation!! The oath states that you are swearing this oath to the church which is God's representative on earth. Unfortunately it's really only a corporation and I figured out that nobody and nothing had the right to come between me and my God. Your dear friends REALLY believe that the church speaks for and represents God and has the right to ask everything of them, even their lives, in return for the eternal life and salvation only Mormonism can give them. Sickening isn't it?

The CULT is NEVER satisfied, NEVER. As soon as people realize that, the sooner the CULT will end. Point it out to as many people as possible.

We all want this CULT to end. This is the same CULT that encourages people to leave their $$ to the CULT in their wills, to spend their children's college funds on the CULT, etc. Remember that the CULT needs to build more malls so they can GO SHOPPING!

It also pisses me off that the CULT would be happy if they owned virtually everything and allotted each member a house to live in (paying rent to the CULT, a car etc.), but the individual members would own nothing. This of course is known as communism. Mention the word communism or socialism to a Mormon if you want to see someone go ballistic! Most don't believe that SOCIAL Security is a form a socialism. MORONS!