DW is Relief Society president. DW is demure and deferential woman--a doormat, if you will--whom people think very well of because she never makes waves, only says yes. Although she is middle-aged, she chose two young women as counselors in order to connect better with the younger ward members. Both counselors are also affluent.

In this context, one of her RS women was going in for major surgery, and asked for some support, some meals to be brought over, etc. So DW contacted her "compassionate service counselor" to organize meals for a few nights. Instead, the compassionate service counselor texted the woman and said stuff like, "What? Can't get your husband off his fat ass to prepare a meal or two? Can't have your teenagers go pick up some take-out?"

The woman who was scheduled for surgery was understandably incensed, and called and screamed at my wife. DW, in her demurring way, tried to play both sides of the issue. Then her counselor called and began yelling at her from the other side. When DW asked me what should she do, I said that, in my eyes, the RS was supposed to be aaaaaallll about compassion, and serving your "sisters in Zion," and similar bullshit, and that meant having each other's backs. If this woman getting surgery was expecting a few days of difficulty ahead, it was not DW's place to be the judge, only to make the service happen. I also reminded her that she and the bishop were always being gamed by three women who have been getting the RS to provide free food and house cleaning for years, all the while having live-in boyfriends and grown children at home. If they could rationalize that, why couldn't they rationalize bringing food over to a sister who had surgery? "Where's the damn compassion?", I asked.

Anyway, what happened was that the "compassionate service" woman called up and said, "I quit. That woman has a gun. I'm afraid. I don't want to deal with people like her." Now DW is all flummoxed and bewildered because she has to find another counselor, and still has to decide (yes, she hasn't decided) what to do about the woman who wants a few meals brought in. Oh, the drama of being in the Lord's Only True Church.

Maybe it's time for your wife to call it quits too?

I don't know about the woman having a gun or not. But why would the compassionate service woman even bring it up, unless she is truly frightened of that woman?

Guns don't kill people. Crazy people do that.

This is starting to sound bat shit crazy.

I'd be more worried about your wife's safety right now.

Damn. If I were your wife, I would have quit over the abuse.

Why can't the "scared of the gun" sister just see that the meals are made and have someone else take them over or have the priesthood deliver them. She sounds like she's just looking for an excuse to drop out.

Sounds like the original Relief Society to me! The very first RS, with Emma Smith in charge, was very judgmental and seemed to be more about controlling the women than helping them. You had to be voted in, first of all, and if anything came out about you that looked bad, you'd be voted out. RS began before Emma knew about her husband's plural marriages, so there were lots of rumors going around about that which Emma was trying to put a stop to. Or rather, that Joseph Smith was using Emma and her so-called Relief Society to put a stop to.

The RS wasn't formed until March 1842. Emma new all about Joe's shenanigans by this point. She used the RS as a platform to reprimand Joe's other "wives". She wasn't ignorantly denying the practice in the church. She was urging the women to live the religion Joe spoke of in public and fighting against what he was doing in private. That's why the RS was disbanded and didn't get up and running again until 25 years later...when another "wife", Eliza R. Snow, became president.

Agreed. Pres. John Taylor said:

“reason why the Relief Society did not continue from the first organization was that Emma Smith the Pres. taught the Sisters that the principle of Celestial Marriage as taught and practiced by Joseph Smith was not of God”

Poor Emma!

The Lord has tens of billions socked away in his bank accounts in order to make sure the FP12 can live comfortable lives and keep Kirton McConkie well-employed to protect their reputations, privacy, and copyrights. That RS counselor was called of God by revelation because God wants another of his billions of sick games and tricks he plays on his children to happen. Its up to us to accept that we are little pieces of dogpoop, the Brethren are untouchable mighty oligarchs, and that Elohim is a sick psycho who should be in some psyche ward in the Telestial kingdom of Heavenly Grandpa but somehow do to a software bug in his Judgment Day processing system the mental nutcase Elohim got assigned incorrectly and thus became a God with a realm nigh unto Kolob.

Doesn't the Bishop have to approve all RS actions?
And won't he be mad that the counselor "quit"?
It's not her responsibility. I'd say it's out of her hands.
He will want to know about all this "drama".

Awww compassionate service is sure over rated.

It was like pulling nails to get some meals for my elderly Dad when he had more than one surgery. The first surgery he was helped.............after that he was on his own because he had a son & a daughter nearby, I guess.
The RS President said "yes" then nothing happened.

Interesting church
Anon

I was the VT for one woman who had foot surgery. When I delivered dinner, she was at home lying in bed with her 3-year-old son and all the rest of the kids and her husband had left her there alone with him. The kids ranged in age from 8 on up to 17. She did eventually divorce her husband who always treated her poorly. When I went to a camp out with the YM/YW later that evening, her 17-year-old daughter told me they would be needing meals brought in for 2 weeks. I thought bullshit on that.

Another person I visit taught ended up in the psychiatric ward (interesting that I had 2 that ended up there). She expected us to provide care for her children and housework done while her husband was at work daily. He was a social worker, so his hours were long. When I went over to help, she wanted to make sure I did enough loads of laundry and, as I went to leave, she asked me to give the kids a bath. I wrapped the little girl in a towel and took her to her mother while I dressed the little boy in his pjs. The mother was talking on the phone laughing and having a nice chat with someone. When her daughter had an accident on the kitchen floor because she didn't have her diaper on yet, the woman started yelling at me. That was it. I called and talked to a friend of mine who deals with severe depression (and I also have depression) just to make sure I was correct. Myself, when I was depressed, I really wasn't thinking about how many loads of laundry were done. How would this woman's doctors feel about this situation? Were we really helping this woman or hindering her? I can see having someone there to be sure she was safe, but to "enable" her. After I talked to the R.S. president, they changed their approach.

There are always those who expect everything and then those who ask for nothing where R.S. is concerned. Tell your wife to pick an older lady who is not affluent. Someone who comes to R.S. and sits quietly on the back row, and doesn't buy into the cliques in the ward.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2016 10:18AM by cl2.

If you really stop to think about it, it's the compassionate people who are the first ones to leave because of the insensitive clods there who don't have any.

Personality of the church has been morphing since the exodus out by many ex-LDS. It's no longer the kind, benevolent face it was once. As tithers decrease so too its resources to look after its own.

Like companies who downsize, LDS Inc is forced to do more with less, fewer people, lesser tithing/offerings, and fewer resources all around. One thing's a given though, the GA will continue to maintain their salary bases and so will Temple Square.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2016 10:20AM by Amyjo.

It's sad... People want to have titles, but they don't want to actually do anything. This isn't just within TSCC. I think it's endemic in our society nowadays.

For example, a few years ago, we were attending a little non-denominational church. They asked me to redo the website, which was antiquated and (I thought) horribly out of date. In particular, there was a page that listed all the ministries, and which volunteer was in charge of each.

We'd been going to the church for nearly two years, and were fairly active, so I was surprised that the vast majority of names and activities were unknown to me! So I asked the pastor which I should keep. He seemed kind of surprised, and told me "all of them." This was in a church that averaged about 125 people per week in attendance, and there were about 30 ministries listed, most "headed" by people I'd never heard of.

I emailed them all to ask if they still wanted to be listed and to provide a little description of their ministry's activities. Surprisingly, most replied and said "yes," and many provided detailed descriptions of what their ministries were (supposed to be) doing.

I "forgot" to include this page on the updated site. ;)

The associate pastor told me later that most of the people had either quit coming, or had even moved on to other churches, but that the senior pastor was afraid of offending anyone and also hoped that having a duty might lure them back.

It's getting worse and worse for the Mormons because the Exmos seem to be taking all the love and compassion with them as they leave in droves.

BoA and BoM aside, I do believe it is getting harder and harder for anyone with a big heart to remain Mormon. That's the real CogDis.

On the one hand you have someone with an able-handed husband and kids who don't mind calling up "strangers" to help with dinner. (What's up with that?-Seriously. Mom can't cook for a week so call in the free help?) On the other hand you have someone doing "compassionate service" who isn't.

And your wife stuck in the middle.

notmonotloggedin

Wow, that is drama. Where I live, we are all somewhat on the same
economic level, middle middle class. One thing that keeps me
going to church here is that the people(my neighbors, the ward) are so friendly and willing to help. All the compassionate service leader has to do if someone has a new baby or is sick or there is a death is to send out a message on the relief society facebook page and almost instantly the calendar is full for needed meals, etc. I haven't heard of anyone being bratty about it.

Your wife has my sympathy. I would want to quit.

I find this an interesting approach. When my Mom was in the hospital for a week when we were kids, she froze meals for the entire time and left me (12 year old) detailed instructions how to prepare them. My Dad handled laundry and my brother cleaned the bathroom. The rest of the house was just a little messier than normal.

No need to call in help, it was not that hard.

My mom did the same with us. It took some advanced planning and extra work, but it worked really well.

... that way I'd be sure to be in on all the latest scoop in every one of my neighbors !!!

At least that is how I remember it being.

I quit 2 positions based on what I thought were totally uninspired Bishop decisions. Too bad I didn't quit the church sooner because of this obvious trend.

It made my church life much easier once they knew I was not afraid to stand up to any 'church leader' and basically say 'you can take this job and stuff it'.

I have mixed feelings about providing meals.

On the one hand, it has felt good to receive service and have people in the ward visit and help out when I had an extended recovery. I'd say it was mostly the care and concern that felt good.

On the other hand, there are plenty of frozen dinners available for purchase, and my husband is good cook. So we could have easily provided our own food, and done it with less effort than putting all those people to so much trouble. And we got way too much food. Every night was enough for two nights. And then we had a huge pile of dishes to return to people.

When it comes right down to it, I think meals are kind of an antiquated way to care for people. Why not just inform people when someone is recovering and encourage them to visit or help out if they want to? Being assigned to bring dinner is rather awkward when you don't know the person or what they like.

And to be honest, being assigned to help someone, especially someone you don't know (or like) makes a chore out of it. I know I've been asked to help out with service when I felt like someone was gaming the system. and it really bothered me, but because of the social pressure I didn't feel free to say no. That's the problem with assignments. It allows users to game the system, while doormats get used.

Sorry your wife got caught in the middle.

My question is, did the counselor know about the gun before she went off like a jerk on the lady requesting meal help? Was there a threat made?

I would tell your wife to collaborate with her counselors and come up with a written policy about the circumstances under which people get meals or help. This policy should be clearly communicated to all members of the RS so that people know what to expect.

I think the days in which prepared meals were a necessity are long gone. Back when I was a kid, if you didn't know how to cook then you were pretty much reduced to going out to a diner or restaurant. When my mom was too sick to cook, my dad would usually take me out.

Now you have plenty of frozen meals (Stouffer's makes family-sized entrees including lasagna,) the prepared food section of the supermarket, take out from restaurants, etc.

If I were formulating a policy it would state that if there is a spouse or teen or adult child living at home, then those people are presumed to know how to cook or how to get take-out. Most of the help should be focused on singles, the elderly, and the disabled who have no nearby family to support them. I could see helping out a family with meals if say, both of the parents are spending a lot of time at the hospital with a sick child.

Once when we needed help a few sisters from the ward came over and helped us make and freeze meals for a month (using our ingredients). That was a huuuuuge help. We didn't need financial help but we needed help easing the pressures of daily life. We also needed emotional support, and having these sisters over helping us do this helped us get to know them. God bless those sisters for giving up several hours of their time to do that.

There will always be takers who abuse the system or the generosity of others. For those, I'd be tempted to make a really bad meal, nothing harmful but just oversalted or with under/over cooked noodles. The people wouldn't starve but they wouldn't enjoy my meal. Or else just do the bare minimum, boil up some spaghetti and dump a can of spaghetti sauce on it and give it to them.

The name "Relief" society is hilarious. Who do they provide relief to? All they do is provide more burden to already over-burdened women. Why does anyone have to be in charge of ordering people to be charitable? "It's not my responsibility, I'm not her visiting teacher, blah, blah, blah" and shit rolls uphill and ends in the lap of the RS pres. And she is supposed to be the one who fixes all the little squabbles. Trust me, the Bishop does not want to hear about the needs of the sisters.

In a non-authoritarian congregation of normal people, people who are naturally compassionate--not cause they're assigned to be, and who know that when they have more time and resources than others might have at the time, they step up to the plate. This is how it can work because this is how we do it and it works like a charm:

Someone in the congregation is in need, they contact the care committee or the minister. Often it is someone else who knows that person is in need because the person won't ask for help themselves. The care committee will check with the minister to see if she has any input or ideas. I've never once seen any conversation about whether this person truly needs help. If they've asked, we don't question. If there were any long-term abuse of the church's compassion and resources, it might be different, but that has never been a problem.

Then the care comittee will just put it out there on an e-mail blast, or our Facebook page bulletin or whatever, to all members (NOT just women), and see if anyone is able to step up to help. If they need a meal or two or two weeks' worth, there's a wonderful site called "Take Them a Meal," that we use all the freakin time. It always fills up fast. Often we'll have people call and say, "I can't take over a meal, but if I give you $25, could someone else take it?" And Voila! people are helped by whoever can help instead of back and forth bickering about who is SUPPOSED to do it.

Could you see the RS pres sending out an e-mail blast to the entire ward saying "please check this link (to Take Them a Meal) and see if you can help out"? Blasphemy. She would have skipped at least 3 levels of red authority tape and utilized a non-correlated web site. Can't have that. Stupid fuckin cult.

Yes, THAT'S the way to do it. Acts of service should be done on a volunteer basis, for someone you WANT to help.

Being assigned takes all the joy out of it.

As an introvert, I can't think of two words more mismatched than relief and society.

A sign a former coworker had seem apropos:

Do to numerous complaints about our free service, it has been discontinued.

I resigned from an organization when the quality and quantity of my free help was critized.

For years I made and delivered meals, cleaned houses, babysat, mowed lawns, did laundry, and drove kids around for other people. I did it gladly. I was happy to help people who needed it. My hubby did even more than I did.

When I had breast cancer there wasn't a soul in sight. Nothing. Nobody, except one person (anon) left an apple on my doorstep. I didn't really need meals, so whatever.

My husbands father was also sick with cancer and was dying very quickly. My husband had to choose where to be. I sent him to spend two weeks with his dying father. I was home alone. We live a long way from restaurants and stores. Going to one was a big chore for me, but I survived. What I really would have loved is for someone to come and change my sheets. I couldn't do it with one arm. I resorted to sleeping in the 3 different beds in the house. When hubby got home he had a lot of sheets to wash. He was pretty out of it, so it was hard to watch him try to care for me in his condition.

Now that i'm no longer a mormon, i'm glad we made it through that bad time without them. I feel no obligation to anyone in that ward for anything. They were some of the most judgmental and unkind people i've ever known. Good riddance.

All this "Please bring us dinner" started way before pizza delivery, frozen meals, and husbands who could turn on a stove were invented. Ladies, put something in the freezer and leave the Relief Society alone. It's 2016 for heaven's sake!

Several years ago my ex and I had a horrible week. Our son had an operation, our dog of 15 yrs died, and the worst, my ex had a miscarriage. We were exhausted. One day I was thinking about dinner, when my boss and his wife came over with pizza, beer and pop for the kids and wife . They showed up without me saying anything or complaining. He just show up. It was one of the best meals I have ever had. I think what he did shows more compassion than someone on a list who brings a meal, who I don't know.

I ALWAYS have food and medicine on hand. I live in earthquake country on street which is sometimes loses electric power or is cut off from the outside community because of weather or roadwork. I think it's a good idea to have ready provisions just in case.

Depending on spiteful unreliable church ladies for food or care is a bad idea.

I've had personal friends offer help and I've appreciated that when I've had surgery or cancer treatments. But that certainly would never be adequate to see me through any crisis situation. For that I have to depend on myself and DH. We also try to have enough ready cash to cover situations and keep gas in the cars for emergencies when roads are passable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2016 01:37PM by Cheryl.