My sister just got married to her fiancé of a few years. I just noticed a pattern with him: he talks down to me. He is much older than me. The other day he told me to thank my mom for paying for the wedding dinner. He was condescending and talked to me like a child. A couple months ago he didn't want me to come to his family's holiday party, even though his parents who were hosting it wanted me there. My sister was upset (she found out last minute), and I even took off work for the occasion. He was mad that I didn't apologize to my sister over a conflict that happened years ago when we were teenagers, that we both forgot about and don't care about anymore. He also demanded the apology. After that, I stopped thinking so highly of him. I only heard about it through my mom, so he did not even approach me after I just learned it was a big issue. A few months before that, he is telling me how to spend my money. He also tells me how to spend my time. This is what I remember off the top of my head. Based on knowing him this long, I get the impression that he is trying to be coercive, not assertive.

This needs to stop. I have always been nothing but respectful, helpful when possible, and otherwise minding my own business. Since these past few times, I have been keeping a greater distance. I don't mind for my own well-being, but it puts a strain on family situations. I wish the solution were as simple as calling him out on his actions, telling him I do not want him to treat me this way in the future. I am confident I'd be met with an argument or he'd complain to my sister behind my back again. I want to try, but I'm scared he will distort this into an ugly mess.

How do you handle controlling family members? I'm sick of being treated this way.

Edit: Thank you for all the great replies so far! I truly appreciate good advice you are all giving!
Regarding BIL isolating her and showing signs of abuse, I agree. I asked some friends for their opinions too, and they came to the same conclusion. My sister and I aren't exactly close and never were, but at this point I know we are beyond any pettiness of the past. I am concerned for her about the guy she married. For her sake, I am hoping the commitment will be an improvement for the relationship (it was complicated and rocky, both having very dominant personalities). While she was saddened by his behavior at the holiday party, she also wrote it off as a quirk that leaks out every now and then. I disagree, because he could have raised the issue several other ways that did not go for worst impact. He made a choice. I think she was trying to cope though, since I could tell she really did feel bad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2016 04:11PM by demoneca.

I suggest cultivating an attitude of confidence. He is trying to coerce you? Just firmly but politely set him straight.

He makes a condescending remark, you look him straight in the eye and say something like, "Thank you for your suggestion. I will take it into consideration." Use a no-nonsense tone that does not invite further discussion. You may escalate to more direct things like, "I appreciate your thoughts. I am an adult and perfectly capable determining how to spend my own money."

Don't underestimate the power of a blank stare. If he says something really intrusive, just look him in the eye like you can't believe he just said that. Let him feel uncomfortable.

If he has any social awareness at all, he should pick up on these cues. If not, you may need to have a candid conversation with your sister.

Accept that you can't make everyone like you or be nice. You can't make him like you, and you can't control what he says behind your back. You can at least train him to be more respectful in your presence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2016 06:07AM by Pista.

Regardless of your sister's possible reaction, you need to tear a strip off this guy and put him in his place. He's got away with this for far too long and you need to demand respect or cut him out of your life.

Not easy, I know, but if your sister has a level head, she will support you. Take her aside first and explain your expectations. Give her a timeline for his apology and then, if not met, go after the jerk

I like this! Developed a cocky stare that communicates--dude, you're totally out of line. If that doesn't work, look him straight in the eyes and say, "I don't like the way you talk down to me, get off my case, and if you do it again, I'm going to call you on it in front of the family!" Best wishes, Boner.

From years of running into people like this, when being nice and diplomatic does not work, I (as they say where I am from) tell them about themselves. Tell them off (you talk to me like I'm 3. I don't do that to you. cut it out now., etc.) They will insult you and sometimes bully you till you show them you can bow up, too. And, the person may never like you for whatever reason, no matter what. Some things we can't control. Call him out.
when I was young, I encountered those who would pull the domineering stunt on me till I learned to figuratively give it to them right between the eyes. Now that I'm old, there will occasionally be somebody treat me like I'm 3 again till I tell them to kiss my ass, also.
People who do this are jerks and need to get a damn life. They are counting on you crawling off like a good little victim. And, no, you don't need their "help."

"Ha-ha-ha! I knew you'd say something like that." Then more laughing and head shaking as you walk away or bluntly change the subject."

I mean it! That shuts up TBM arrogance in an instant. After doing this consistently for three or four visits, he'll likely think twice before spewing his high-horse advice.

On the other hand, it doesn't help to continue to be respectful of disrespectful people.

I once had an arrogant boss who gave bad advice. I started giving him a military salute in a comical slightly demeaning way. That worked better than anything else I'd seen anyone try on him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2016 06:51AM by Cheryl.

First, never thank or apologize to someone just because he orders it (the idea that you would have to thank your mom for your sister's reception is patently absurd. Your sister and her husband are the ones who needed to thank your mom!)

You will need to find a way to stand up to him. You can do so firmly and without anger. Whenever you do, look him in the eye and speak with firmness and/or amusement. Come up with some stock phrases that you will have at the ready, i.e., "Oh, knock it off," "I am not a child and I would appreciate if you not treat me like one," "You are so funny when you go all priesthood authority on me (said dryly,)" "No, I won't be doing that," "Tend to yourself, John," etc. As above posters have mentioned, staring without responding and chuckling at the other person can also be quite effective. It will help if you realize that he's basically an enraged three year old wearing man's pants. Treat him as such, as though his ideas are those of a silly, immature, self-important, tantrum-throwing child.

Your sister is the one who deserves your pity. And under the circumstances, as much distance as you can muster would be advisable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2016 08:04AM by summer.

Have you considered that he may be trying to isolate your sister?

Never Mo but raised Fundie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you considered that he may be trying to
> isolate your sister?


This was what I thought as well.

He's willing to confront you about things to which you sh/would have no ready defense -

-----

Reviving an old, resolved argument with your sister to pay him apology

A "thank you," where you were not the one being gifted

Uninviting you last minute to a family event where he was not the host

Attempting to control the resources he does not own (your money and time)
--------

The huge red flag of isolating your sister is

Using these (your) supposed "bad behaviors) to argue with and convince your sister that you are "not okay" for "his wife" to associate with.

"...just noticed a pattern"

Uh, no. He began a pattern after he had "won ownership" (entitlement) of your sister 100%, when he became sure of the wedding. An insecure fiance may not be so sure.

You might want to look up emotional entitlement. Notice how in all of the examples you gave, above, he took ownership of things that were not his.

He could care less how you behave, or the confrontations would be with you, not your sister. He sets you/sis up to argue with and avoid sisterly chats. She will eventually "side" with her husband, not because she agrees with him, but because she has to live with him, and, eventually she will be weary of fighting with him. Her investment in her husband is already large.

What to do?

You must not allow him to "get" you. At every criticism, smile and say, "I hadn't considered that, but I'll certainly give it some thought." You can come up with other noncommittal responses.

You can't win with a sick abuser, and there's only one reason to isolate your sister. Your role here is not to defend yourself against him, but to deny him the ammunition he needs to fire at Sis. Be pleasant, be firm, be ready to repeat your noncommittal statements in different ways, in the same conversation. Be and stay "the nice one."

It will piss him off that you won't engage in arguments, or even tell him (or sis) that he is wrong, which is what he needs from you; he needs to be "victimized" by your "bad behavior," so that he is "justified" in cutting you out of having any influence with your sister. All the better if you speak ill of him, to her. That would be his "proof" that you are trying to "destroy their marriage."

The more you show her your disgust with him, the more "right" he will have been, in her eyes. Be prepared to hear "the bad" about you from her. Don't get mad. Say, "I'm sorry he feels that way."

You'll also want to bone up on gaslighting.

I'm really sorry, but there is no good outcome if this is the case. The best you can do is to make sure sis knows you support whatever choices she makes. There's no way to know in which arena(s) he wants to abuse, but it seems the likely course.

You must not confide these fears to your sister. She is in newlywed mode, and it will only give him fuel, because she wants to share everything with him, as married people will.

Look at it this way, if this is all wrong, and he really just hates you (all of a sudden), the worst that can happen by playing the nice one is that you don't get to tell him to shove it [somewhere dark]. For you, playing nice will also help you to reach and maintain an emotional distance from him. You will expect off-the-wall attacks, and they won't sink in. It might even become amusing to see the weird stuff he will invent to try to force a defense out of you.


On trying to physically deny you being in her presence at family events -

"Mom and dad don't want you there."

"Thank you for the information. Talk soon. Bye, now."


Show up. He would have to admit to his mom, dad and your sis that he tried to remove you. (-I'm not real surprised that sis found out last minute, and wonder who told her what.)

Remember that you are not trying to "win." You are trying to stay in good contact with sis. Your goal is to maintain her trust, and be the friend she loves. She can tell you anything, and you will not judge.

I hope I'm wrong, but have seen it before.

I agree with this. Warn your sister that her husband may be trying to isolate her from her family, and that she may need to stand up to him about that. Tell her that you and other family members are the same, loving people you always have been, but that you are not going to put up with any guff from her husband. If he tells you what to do you are going to tell him to stuff it.

I agree with the poster above. I'd be very concerned he's trying to isolate your sister. This is one of the first steps in an abusive relationship. I would point that out to your sister. I wouldn't take any guff from him. I would absolutely refused to walk on eggshells around him. He's just an in law.

He has already demonstrated that he is a coward because he does most of this behind peoples back's. An antidote for that is to take it out in the open.

I do not believe people like him are capable of change. I've run into others like him and the need to control and bully is central to their lives. I believe it to be a psychological issue (I think being a TBM is a form of mental illness too BTW). I feel sorry for your sister if she marries the asshole. You need to protect yourself from him and tell him to stop the bullying and controlling. He won't like that but it needs to happen ASAP.

RB

He will treat you however you will let him treat you. As others have said, a confident and strong attitude is probably best here.

"Dude! Quit. If I need advice, I'll ask."

If he says, "What? I'm just trying to help."

"Yeah, well you're always trying to tell me what to do. If I want your advice, I'll ask for it."

You can say, "Quit!" as many times as you need to say it.

Of course a conversation can never follow an exactly planned script like that, but I'm basically just saying to be confident in your own opinion and in the choices that you make for yourself.

He's a brother-in-law, so treat him as though he's an annoying, nagging brother and tell him to back off.

Here's a line my father (who was stake patriarch and a sealer in the temple) would use:

"You obviously have me confused with someone you think gives a damn."

It seems difficult to be this blunt, but it just takes a little practice.

Other lines I would use:

"You seem to think I should value your opinion on how I live my life.'
"That's nice, but I really don't care (or give a rat's ass if you're feeling saucy."
"You need to stop talking."
"Not everyone's ideas or opinions are valid."
"When you pay my bills and take care of my responsibilities, then you can boss me around to your heart's content."

My dad was rather controlling. After I got married we invited my parents over to our house for dinner. He soon started in with making a suggestion to my husband about how he should be doing something in the kitchen: "don't you think you should . . . . ?" I don't even remember what it was about.

My husband just said 'NO'. No elaboration, no explanation, no justification, and the clear message that he wasn't interested in examining the way he did things in the kitchen. My dad got the message, I suppose. Because my parents never meddled in my home, like they did in my siblings'.

Find a stock phrase to shut him down, but without starting an argument.

Stay away from bad people, even if they are related. You do not owe anyone the right to associate with you. You aren't obligated to attend family events when you have to be on guard to do so.

I agree with this. Some people won't listen...don't know if you want to see if your BIL is one of those.

Also agree that your sister is probably in danger. Can you and do you want to protect her?

I think the best way to deal with this guy's attitude and out of order behavior is with a sense of humor.
Laugh it off. Have some witty come-backs.
Never, ever take him seriously!
Also, completely ignoring him would take the wind out of his sails also.
Never respond to him except with humor.
Oh My Gawd, I have a new Keeper. How did I get along all this time without your input! Do I owe you a bill for all this? How much do you charge an hour for advice?
Get him out of your head except for an object of humor!!

Next time start sniffing around him and say,, what the hell is that smell! And then walk off.

Always leave him hanging with some comical smart ass remark.
Not mean, not confrontational. Just a happy smart ass.

People like him hate this kind of crap. Like Cheryl and SusieQ#1 have said. This works best. You will see when you walk into a room he is in. He will stay away from you, avoid you. You will have all the power. have turned the tables.

If you bow, he will bite
If you confront, he will bite.
If you laugh him off, he will be confused, lost.

Go back and read the advice from Standar above. This whole thing may not be about you, and reacting emotionally against the jerk may be very short sighted.

There is a lot of good advice here about how to deal with jerks when you have to work or live with them. It is however, important to know when and with whom to engage.

I agree with Standar, this whole thing is not about you. Don't take it personally. It is all about a long game that your BIL is setting up with someone else and you are just a pawn. He is counting on you to act badly, be a drama queen, and be emotional. He expects that to be used against you in the future. Don't do it.

Be above it. Be kind, magnanimous and disengaged. Smile, say something nice, walk away, and watch to see what the bigger game is that he is playing. Take control by refusing the bait, refusing to play the role he is setting up for you.