most of us here have posted or thought that the GAs, esp, the FP & 15 are either 'straight up' liars or are at least perpetuating a lie/lies...


What about the lies that non-GAs tell?


When people lie to or about someone, does that essentially mean that they (liars) Hate the people they lie to or about?

perhaps it's mostly 'ordinary' selfishness...


What do lies mean to you?

As with the church authorities, I suspect that the situation with the individual members is a bit more complicated. Yes, there are people who outright lie about everyone and everything they encounter, but they tend to be (thankfully) a very small minority who really have mental and emotional problems driving their behavior.

As you surmise, there are people who make up lies about other people they don't like. Again, I suspect that the numbers here are a minority as well.

As far as I can tell, the majority of people who pass on lies believe they are telling the truth because they heard it from someone who they trusted. I also believe that a large number of people who I consider to be lying actually view the same events and people as I do but with a very different perspective from myself. The "facts" that I use to judge whether or not a person is telling the truth are not the same "facts" used by the person who I think is lying.

I am not leading millions of people, nor do I live off of the proceeds of their labors.

The Q purport to be prophets and apostles. Of Jesus. They hold forth that they have a holier and more direct line than the millions of members.

They have taken a greater privilege and have a greater duty than I or others. If I spout my opinion, I am one of millions. They are supposed to be holy leaders.

They cannot have it both ways, but that is what they want.

Good point about lies being linked to selfishness and/or hatred.

The worst lies I've experienced have been associated with other sins. My ex constantly lied to me, our children, and his parents to cover up his serial cheating. My brother lied to the whole family, because he was stealing money from our parents' estate.

My con-man nephew's whole life was a lie--he pretended to go to college, but he lived in Provo on my father's dime, and used the tuition money for dates and eating out. He pretended to graduate from BYU, and put it on his resume. He said that no one checks a resume. He pretended to get temporary computer jobs, that were soon "downsized". Suddenly, he pretended to be a former big-wig at Apple, and took an "early retirement," when he had no job at all. He conned money out of my two uncles, to start up a business. I investigated, and never found any evidence of a business being registered, nor any evidence of my nephew working. He just went on one vacation after another. My father bought a house for my nephew, and the members of his new ward fell for his act, and put him in the bishopric, but after 6 months, they released him.

I guess I don't like liars, because I'm glad when they're caught.

Gossips who lie, do so out of jealousy. I do believe slanderers hate the person they lie about. These people feel that they are more deserving of--whatever it is--love, good looks, being thin, a job, a prestigious church calling, happiness. The jealous liar feels in competition with the other person, as if there aren't enough of the good things to go around.

I guess the level of evil in a lie dependss on the motive of the liar, and how much harm a lie does.

Some people lie when they are backed into a corner.

Some people here on RFM lie to family members about their religious beliefs, to keep the peace.

I think it's fine to tell white lies to make people feel good, "Yes, that outfit does look good on you."