One of my distributors is a large multi-national company. I flew to Dallas to meet the new US Dir of Sales yesterday. He noticed that my area code for my cell was 801 and asked if I was from Utah or just a transplant. He asked because he graduated from BYU. We shared that my business partner and I also went to the Y.

We finished our business and he asked how the people in Utah are handling the church's fall. He left soon after his mission 15 or so years ago and shared that his entire family is out and that none of his friends from the Y were still in. In his words "It's hard to imagine how anyone with a smartphone could stay."

The church used to keep guys like us. And frankly, losing guys like this fellow has to hurt.

This makes me happy. I wish my family would use their phones to the same effect.. Unfortunately they've been made to think that anything that even hints at questioning church subjects could only ever be from dirty ole Lucy and with draw them to hell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 10:24AM by buriedego.

Perversely, the church doesn't want the best and brightest. Not even a little bit.

Think back to junior high/high school.

Every school had the kids that did their work, said yes sir, and went straight home to do their homework while eating an apple and petting the family dog. They became valedictorian, and spent hours upon hours doing their school work. Those kids weren't dumb. But they were rarely geniuses.

On the other hand, there were the kid(s) who came to class 5 minutes late and finished their homework before class even let out. They got a few B's here and there, but usually got 91% on all of their assignments. They did almost zero school work at home. They threw rocks at stop signs and made out with their boy/girlfriends behind the bleachers. They were/are geniuses.
They figured out how to maximize happiness/results/effort and applied it. And usually didn't bow to authority, just because they had authority.

The first people make excellent church members. They clean the church, they pay tithing, they follow the WOW, they bow their heads and say yes.

The second group change the world and would call out asshat bishops/stake prez'/GAs. The church doesn't want that. Not at all, because those people are very hard to control.

The church is losing both groups though. They're losing the poorly motivated. They're losing the youth. They're losing every single demographic. The young, the old, the male, the female. Because they built their empire on sand, and erosion is a bitch.

You don't know me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the other hand, there were the kid(s) who came
> to class 5 minutes late and finished their
> homework before class even let out. They got a few
> B's here and there, but usually got 91% on all of
> their assignments. They did almost zero school
> work at home. They threw rocks at stop signs and
> made out with their boy/girlfriends behind the
> bleachers. They were/are geniuses.

God Damn it, were you stalking me?

In my defense, I usually got a 94% on most tests, thank you very much.

I also refused to do extra BS work for a silly grade. "If you want an A in my class you have to do a special report" FU Mrs Banks, I'll take the B. "If you want above a C in my class you have to stay after school and work on several projects". I'll take that C and shove a potato up the tailpipe of your car Asshole.

What did it get me? A very tough transition to college (after skipping my senior year) and having to learn how to study and work.

I didn't study and still went to MIT.

I went to my first class on Evidence in law school and skipped the rest. I never cracked a book or read a case and never returned to class until the final. I got a B.

That's the same as me too. In high school my parents would ask if I had homework. I never did do any homework. The only thing is I didn't show up late. Even at work. I still prefer never being late.

"Every school had the kids that did their work, said yes sir, and went straight home to do their homework while eating an apple and petting the family dog. They became valedictorian, and spent hours upon hours doing their school work. Those kids weren't dumb. But they were rarely geniuses."

That was me! I was very obedient, always did all my work, and did well in school. I was a model LDS girl too. Ohhhh, so very very wholesome!

So how did someone like me ever leave the church?
PURE LUCK! Oh my, I am SO glad for my luck!

1) I didn't marry a TBM guy at BYU first of all. I think that's extra good luck. If I had married a TBM, I doubt I would have ever allowed myself to question anything later.

2) After college I moved away from my LDS community into one where there weren't so many Mormons. So I was kind of isolated from it for a while, which gave me a chance to think on my own.

3) Then I met and fell in love with a nevermo guy, so the church wasn't even the center of my social life anymore. My atheist husband was very considerate of my beliefs but of course he didn't push me to stay in the church.

So no, I didn't question things when I was young, or fight it, or wonder about it. I do envy those who did, actually. I think for the "obedient" types, the only hope is to get FAR FAR away from it all, away from the people and community that can make them feel guilty for their doubts. So I count myself VERY lucky. Not only have I gotten away from a false church, but I've gotten away from the GUILT and the fear of punishment for disobedience that closed my mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2016 12:08AM by seekyr.

I don't necessarily consider myself one of the "best and brightest," although compared to the mormons I grew up with, I'd elevate myself in standing.

But compared to so many of you, I'm just collateral damage. But from what I've seen here, Yes. The church IS losing the best and brightest. Especially if you count in the non-believers who still are active.

The good thing is that those non-believers are, out of necessity, being given positions in the church where they can do some good. I know ones who work with the YM/YW, are Seminary teachers, etc. I love it when they are in positions to influence the youth to 1) think, and 2) not be so hard on themselves.

Congratulations.

The others will have to wallow in misery.

HopiBon! Wrote:
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> The church used to keep guys like us. And
> frankly, losing guys like this fellow has to hurt.

Nah, they are hastening to separate the wheat bellied assholes from the chaffed.

Their heterosexual male asshole-to-not ratio has steadily been rising almost exponentially in this new century. Pretty soon the church will just be filled with apologists with a minority of high powered authorities and a bunch of other guys mostly interested in Mormon girls.

The church is certainly losing some of their best and brightest, but don't underestimate their ability to retain some of them. I know some powerful, intelligent individuals who are still very active in the church. The only thing I can come up with is they are simply playing along to maintain their standing in the community. And then take people like Daniel Peterson, who have invested their entire lives and made a career out of defending the church. There is no way DCP believes the crap he spews. He isn't that stupid. It's simply survival for him at this point. Throwing it all away and starting over is too difficult to imagine.

I don't know about Danny. I think he might be like people who approaching a precipice going too fast have that moment when if they slam on their breaks they have a slim chance they just might not go off the cliff. Those people think about it and then punch the gas peddle instead of the break peddle. They are going to prove something in testing their God out.

Only true believers try to fly with angels. Fake believers never go gassing it for God. That would be crazy.

Exactly! Daniel P. fell on his sword a long time ago.

He was positioned best to inoculate those with shaken faith and yet he irritated them into either his own image or out of his church.

Then his church came along and started the inoculations disregarding his years and years of aggressive defense.

He had some golden years as a stripling warrior until his betters came along and fessed up and moved on...without him.

His minor celebrity star status has faded to embarrassment and his only hope of retrenchment is with old rich people who revel in the glory days of gory defense on a boat in the Caribbean.

I'm out so I concur... LDS, Inc. is losing it's best and brightest!

Their children will never know the hell of LDSInc.

Or better yet. They'll know it from a safe distance.

This is a praise report.

I feel like doing a ((((happy dance)))) sort of.

There's just so many more left keeping it running. With the terrible job of outreach it has been doing these past few years, it has become its own worst enemy.

Teaching lies and living them never was "man's road to happiness."

I only wish my ancestors had figured the deception out before I did.

But then my parents may not have ever met, married, had us kids, etc. Ain't life grand?

So much serendipity to go around.

I've been hearing something at meetings. Not sure if I'm just more sensitive to the topic? or just that I'm hearing it more often.

Kind of like when you buy a car, you start to notice lots of people own the same car.

Anyways, I'm hearing more on the return of Christ, the time is very near. It's so close, like in our lifetime. The wicked (apostates) are going to burn. Make sure you are on the lords side. blah blah blah.

Anyways, Iam I alone? Have other shadow Mormons noticed?

Christians in general are in some kind of wait and see mode of the shoe is about to drop, and they don't care from which foot.

It may be another way the Mormon elite work behind the scenes to control its members through *fear* of the unknown or not being saved.

Since the time of Jesus Christ believers have been predicting the "end times" are going to happen in their lifetimes.

My perspective is that it doesn't matter when or whether the world comes to an end today or tomorrow, because we don't have any control over that. I believe it's going to keep on ticking like it always has except that it's mankind that has the capacity to destroy ourselves by fire many times over.

Who needs a god to do that? If God were truly that pissed off and evil he'd have ended us a long time ago. We make so many gains as a primitive form of life on this planet, any gods watching and observing us from a distance must see us as some kind of a science experiment. But not one they want to end any time soon.

Live each day as if it could be the last? Well that's a good way to live no matter what one believes. For me personally, I believe how I live this life may determine where I end up after I leave it behind. So time does matter, how we spend it, for better or worse we shape our own destiny.

My sister-in-law's TBM parents thought that way, that the world was going to end on their watch. They stockpiled food and arms and basically barricaded themselves in at my brother's farm compound where they lived in Idaho. They invited me to join them to wait out the "end times."

Then both up and died from cancer within a matter of a couple years apart, in their early 60's.

That was their end alright, just not the one they fancied.

:(

I'm actually glad to hear that "The Best and Brightest" are leaving. It is really disconcerting that bright, logical and rational people choose to ignore the obvious religious flaws and rationalize them to fit the religious narrative.

TSCC still holds onto some of the best and brightest because religion thrives on fear. They may be bright but they can still be made/conditioned to fear something. It may not be hell and damnation these days that they fear but loss of spouse, loss of stature in an LDS environment, loss of respect from their kids, loss of job in LDS job market, loss of parental respect or financial support, or maybe the simple fear of change. So many aren't even afraid of change so much as just uncomfortable with it and spend a lot of effort avoiding it.

The older a person gets the less they like change so I predict that it will be the youth and young adults who leave the fastest. And the brighter they are the faster they will leave because the youth are the least likely to fear.

The cult has always had a strong fear and took retaliation at those folks who managed to get members to think and question aspects of the cult that the cult did not want questioned.

In later years, Packer managed to throw in two other avenues the cult feared beside the brightest....homosexuality and feminism.

And, these three venues should be feared by the cult because they do cause members to venture out of their protective shells and look around and start using their gray matter more.

I think the cult would void the membership of these three things even faster than they are doing if they could figure out how to do it.

Fine with me. I look forward to the day when the cult ship is no longer sailing on the sea.