When I was in Utah years ago, visiting a BYU grad who lived in SLC, she told me she knew married gay Mormon men who had boyfriends. Some of them lived in SLC and had boyfriends in other states, and some of them lived in San Fran and had boyfriends in Utah. I couldn't really grasp why they would be married and Mormon, of all things. One guy told her he liked the security of a home, wife and kids.

I knew a professor at the Y who most definitely seemed gay (no idea other than he gave off a vibe - is gaydar real or is it just a myth?) married, with kids. I wonder if he's one of these guys and how many live this way?

I guess what I still find hard to imagine is buying into a church that is not really accepting of individuals, and having to keep one's true self hidden. Many of us exmos have tried doing this but in the end, it's really not necessary since there being a closeted Mormon doesn't seem to have many benefits. But I guess we all choose a path and some people must feel they have to be in the closet, gay or exmo. I could not do that - it's just too stifling.

Even though TSCC supposedly doesn't encourage gays to marry an opposite sex spouse anymore as a way to "cure" them, there are still many who could never really come out and end up marrying instead. I'm sure most of us know several people who eventually come out and have wives and children. And some who many people always suspected were gay who get married. I used to be so worried for those couples, but all marriages are a leap of faith.

If you're an LDS guy, especially living in Utah where you can't use the excuse that you can't find an LDS girl you would want to marry, you can only go so long before you come to a fork in the road and have to make a decision. They don't take kindly to successful guys in their 30s still being single. Not that all of them are gay by any means.

Surely there are some of them who are able to have a lifelong marriage and wonderful family. Others, as Gemini, Cl2, and others' husbands, finally have to follow that part of their identities and end up leaving their families. But we shouldn't always think it's a tragedy when a gay or Lesbian decides to marry (opposite sex). Many of us jumped into marriages with partners we really had no emotional connection with and who we were incompatible with sexually and in other ways. The church pushed that on us. We were taught that any two temple-worthy people can make a good marriage. Some of those who never had a lot of intimacy in their marriage stay married for the duration. Some don't.

If a closeted Mormon male makes that decision that he wants to have a family and build his life around the church, I wish them all the luck in the world. Because it will be a long time before they will be able to be in the church and have a family any other way.

I think I have one in extended family. Hush, hush, don'tcha know.

I belong to GAMOFITES (Gay Mormon Fathers); founded in 1992, and almost immediately, our list grew to several hundred. After 5 years, we were well over 500 on the list in the US.

And these were just men who were at least willing to admit their situation to our group.

During those years, we speculated that there were - AT LEAST - 3 of "us" in each ward or branch, and there are almost 30,000 "congregations" world-wide. That would make 90,000 church-wide.

Boggles my mind.

PK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2014 09:37PM by PapaKen.

I know a few that are closeted and married. I know a few that are out, married and trying to make it work. I know a lot that were married when they were closed Mormons but no longer married or Mormon. I have also watch a few as their lives and families fall apart.

Besides the Gay Mormon Fathers, I know there is a more secretive and less formal group for closed gay men that are married to women. This is a group that enables hooking up without connecting directly to public gay groups like Gay Fathers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2014 09:04PM by MJ.

We did not figure this out until a few years before my mom died. He served in the bishopric but hated it and never went back to church when he was released. I understand now. In WWII he joined the army air corp and served in Europe. He and some friends in the 8th air force started a club of Mormon airmen, I have some pictures of them and I met two them when I was younger. I really suspect these guys were gay from things my father told me and some things I know about his one friend in the service. Being gay in his generation he had no choice but try to conform, I suspect this caused a lot of problems in my parents marriage that I was oblivious to. My mother was a little bit odd; my uncle used to tell me that one day I would understand why my mom and dad seemed to make it work when they had such strong differences.

A couple of cousins who are identical twins both came home as eligible RMs but only one settled down and now boasts a morminal wife and kids.

The other one is still a bachelor of hearts as well as a Bachelor of Arts, last I heard.

Nature or nurture?

Go figure.

I get that in the past, it was necessary to be closeted.

Now it really isn't is it?

I mean, if a gay man (or woman) wants to have kids and be married to someone of the same sex or just live with someone, and have kids, now it's perfectly acceptable.

Even if it isn't accepted in Mormon circles, there is enough support outside Mormonism. So I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand why someone who is gay would remain Mormon today and marry a woman/man of the opposite sex - as he/she no longer needs to.Unless he/she is really afraid of losing ties with Mormon family. Whereas 20 years ago or more, different story.

I chalk it up to the sheer strength of their indoctrination. Mormonism has never been about self fulfillment.
By the time a person's sexuality starts to come into focus, they're already hooked. It then becomes all about obedience "for good or for bad".

Hearing--what's his name?--Josh somethingorother talk about how marrying a woman is the only way to to stay in TSCC and be a good mormon and follow his leaders, and that he couldn't do that with a man. It made me realize that they think of themselves as sort of martyrs.

It's extremely hard to shake, even for those who want to leave. Browsing this forum shows that even the "most ex" exmos run into unwanted twinges of guilt about all sorts of things, not just sexuality..

There are two problems here. The first is that indoctrination is often very effective and so this men are as stuck in mormonism as your average tbm.

The other problem is that replacing your entire social circle is a very difficult and uncertain endeavor and most people most of the time feel very loyal to the "tribe" they were born into. It doesn't matter if other "tribes" are more accepting of homosexuality, clearly their "tribe" isn't. Just because you are gay doesn't mean you have faboulus people skills to make new friends, and no sense of loyalty and obligation to your 'old' friends and family.

Not to mention that the big social benefit of mormonism, wether you believe or not, are instant friendships wherever you go which can be quite a difficult thing to give up for us not naturally endowed with social skills. There are other segments of society that readily accepts homosexuality for sure, but the difficulty is to get yourself into that social world as an outsider that has been potty-trained to be rude and clumsy towards non-mormons.

Even though legally and some social acceptance has happened in some regions; many regions and towns are not LGBT friendly.

I never understood this group http://affirmation.org/

I mean I love them, and I'm behind them coming out and trying to pursue happiness. I just can't see why they're trying to pursue their happiness by running into brick walls, false hope, empty promises and trying to justify TSCC homophobia.

I have never liked or recommended Affirmation.

Don't assume that they consciously make the decision to marry straight because it's what they want. Bishops and stake presidents will tell gay men that if they marry a woman in the temple and have enough faith, God will make them straight. This happened to one of my friends. After two kids and a train-wreck marriage, he's now divorced, celibate, and still Mormon. Another friend received the same advice/promise after going on a mission, but ended up leaving TSCC. His family shunned him (and still does), but he was happy living as openly gay (last time we talked). A couple of others I know chose to stay (mostly) in the closet, confiding in a few non-Mormon friends. One has a "roommate" that is probably more.

I know one who did marry a woman, is still married to her, and has secret boyfriends on the side (secret from his wife, anyway). He cross-dresses at home and his teenage children have figured out which way his affections go. He also mentioned having been told God would "cure" him if he just had enough faith.

From what I hear, TSCC is still teaching that being gay is a choice (one that's unacceptable to God) and can be changed with enough desire, faith, and therapy. One friend attempted suicide on his mission because he did everything he was told and realized his attraction to other men was NOT going to just go away. He has had the strength to not cave in and marry a woman when he returned home, but it was incredibly hard for him to withstand the family pressure.

I think sometimes we here at RfM take it for granted that BIC Mormons know what we know -- like the idea of gay people having lifestyle options. Seems basic to us, but to someone raised in and still in TSCC, it's not always so.

DO ALL GUY WHO ARE 30'S AND MORMONS ALREADY MARRIED? THE ONES WHO ARE NOT ARE GAY? DO THEY HAVE DOUBLE LIFE IN VEGAS BECAUSE MORMONS GOES VERY OFTEN THERE? WHY SO MANY MORMONS HAVE SEXUALITY PROBLENS? BECAUSE THE CHURCH DON'T WANT THEN TO CHOOSE WHO THEY WANT ? NORMALLY THEY MARRY PEOPLE FROM THE CHURCH?

Why are you shouting? We're right here.

Are we singling out guys on this? What about all the lefty-lovin females tied up with kids and married to momo men? There's plenty of them, right?

I don't advertise my gay side. I'm married (in the temple) and was an active member.

Do I fit the bill? Most people who know me (not any Mormons) know I've got a gay side. I guess I could call it same sex sexual orientation appreciation sense.

And guess what? In Mormonism it isn't a sin anymore so I can't blame it on leaving Mormonism!

I had a gay coworker with whom I arranged outings for at-risk children. He said it was the only time he felt like he had a wife and kids. Those were joyful times for us both. He even asked me to marry him.

Finally, one of his suicide attempts took.

He had what was described as a love/hate thing for me, and I'm sure many others. He would go from woman to woman with what appeared to be a similar attachment.

That was a long time ago. I still don't know what to think of it all. Maybe someone here can explain it.

I guess sometimes I get tired of talking about it. My ex at least told me before we married, but even he didn't have a clue what we were getting into. I definitely didn't. I do believe he would like to have both in terms of me being his mother figure and nothing romantic or sexual. I'm his family more than his family is. I don't know what he would do without me. He freaks out any time he thinks he is losing me completely. We are friends now, what we always should have been.

He wanted what he saw as stability. He wanted children. In 1983 when he told me he is gay, living as a gay would not have been a stable lifestyle. His life still isn't what I'd call stable. He has kids, he has me as his friend. He has a home. A good, long, long term job. He has the best of both worlds. He'd just prefer my boyfriend wasn't around so much, but that is just more of an inconvenience. They both feel that way about each other.

We have many friends or he does who are still married and very unhappy, but they believe in the LDS church and they think we are crazy although they cheat on their wives quite often. One of them probably cheats daily (yes, that often). We see many couples who we think the man at the very least is gay. We do know some couples where the wife is lesbian (one of them being his sister, who is married and about 65 years old--they tolerate each other).

The church still tells gays to marry the opposite sex.

IT still teaches gays that to have any worth they must have a heterosexual union.

I came out in 2012. From then through 2013 I had 1 Mission President, 1 Stake President, 2 Bishops and my own Father tell me (all separate and private occasions) that I would be "cured" if I marry a woman.

So yes the church never has changed its stance on teaching gays to be "heterosexual" theyve just changed theyre PR.

Probably because according to Bednar there are no homosexual members of the church. Obviously god is just "challenging" you with those "wrong" desires. :D

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mormon-leader-homosexuality_us_56d5c8a3e4b03260bf782ee5

well this homosexual certainly is not a member of that church

There are even more closeted gays that aren't married yet. All it takes is a quick browse through Provo's casual encounters Craigslist to see how many RMs are seeking other discreet RMs at BYU...

If I EVER get my psychology degree, I'm doing a thesis on the TSCC and it's effect on human sexuality. I think I'd get an A just for thinking about writing it in Happy Valley.

If they are closeted, then how would anyone know how many? And there are a number of gay men and women who chose to marry opposite sex anyway, openly.

We began Gamofites (Gay Mormon Fathers) in 1992 with 12 members. Within 2 years, our membership list had grown to 400. Today we don't have an exact number, but it's in the several thousands. And these are the ones who are willing to admit it.

We speculated that there are likely an average of 3 gay married men in each ward. Thats probably high, but even if it's only ONE per ward, that's over 25,000 worldwide.

So who knows, really? I just know it's a lot.

10,069

:)

Closeted what... Gay? Non-believer? Democrat?

That's the problem with being Mormon, there is no end to the limitations Mormonism puts on the individual.

Doubting Thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Closeted what... Gay? Non-believer? Democrat?

All three are on the same level for most Mormons. Kinda like Intellectuals, Gays, and Feminists.

Their only difference is you can't kick out Gays or Democrats now or call them sinners for their thinking. You can kick out Non-believers and call them sinners for their thinking.

Unless they are the child of a Democrat, I mean Gay Mormon. Then you can kick them out (or prevent them from coming in) for not calling their parents sinners.

ok, there are lots of closet people but mormon comunity people are saying so many married. I'm amazed. Do you think that's a thing about mormon religion? That teach all people need to get married the oposite sex etc..
I'm just trying to understand. Is the religion so strict? People really go to Vegas to have boyfriend etc... It's so crazy if you think you are in 2016 and you are free to do what you want?

In the LDS religion, yes, it is a documented thing that they have taught and still do teach that everyone should marry someone of the opposite sex. The religion is that strict.

Members who are homosexuals that are open or are found out for years were taught that they could and should "marry the gay away" that to do otherwise was to be eternally damned.

Mormon's are taught that the only way to reach the highest part of the celestial kingdom is to be married in the temple. Anything else was unacceptable. So, if you wanted to reach exhalation, you got married.

Being gay, having gay thoughts was sinning, the only way to fix it was to get married to a member of the opposite sex.

Now a days, due to public pressure, the openly state that being gay in and of itself isn't a sin, acting on it however, is. No dating a member of the same sex, marrying a member of the same sex gets you excommunicated.

They even go so far as to say that if you are homosexual in this life, you'll be straight in the next. Think about that for a while and what that could mean to a young, confused kid. To many it suggests that they would be better off dead, to many kids take that route. If you find someone you love, being with them now is a horrible sin. When you die and see them in the next, you won't feel the same way about them... it's a horrible message to tell people.

And so, many church leaders today still try to get homosexual members to enter straight marriages. The only other option they have is to live celibate lives where they are pariahs, never given important jobs, certainly never overseeing children, etc.

It even gets worse. Children of someone in a homosexual couple (there are many ways this can happen) can not receive any church blessing. They can not be baptized members, can not receive the priesthood, can not fully participate in the church. You may think at first that this is "OK" or "Who wouldn't want that". There are plenty of instances where this is harmful to children. Think cases where these marriages breakup as an example. The child, should they want to be a member would have to wait until they are 18 years old and then would have to disavow their parents homosexual marriage. That's how strict they are on this subject.

I can't imagine the life of a homosexual member of the church.

Your take on the issue is basically correct.

Mormons are to love what the "Soup Nazi" was to soup.

Gay people--"No LOVE for you!"

And, it's not much better for a lot of the straight ones.

A bit OT perhaps, but I wanted to share because I was struck by the following TBM take(the ridiculousness of it): I(nevermo) am currently residing in an Assisted Living facility in a suburb of SLC and am surrounded by(mostly) elderly TBMs. One gentleman who happens to sit next to me at meals made a comment one day regarding a gay nephew of his, "He came out of the closet just long enough to get married and have 2 kids and then he went right back at it". It was difficult to keep a straight face at the sheer ignorance of his remark!

what is a closet mormon?