"faith needs to be built on truth—what is, in fact, true and believable".

I don't know what Grant was trying for... Was that from his TBM days?

'Faith', to me, only works as concept that deals with expectations. Whether you pack your own chute or not, when you jump from the plane, 'faith' is present, with regard to your chute.

So 'faith' equals 'expectations', which unfortunately are not always met.

"Faith needs to be built on truth--what is, in fact, true and believable." Well, TBM tithe payers for the most part will tell you that they have faith that they will be blessed for paying their tithing. So to many of them the tithing principle is true and believable.

But the Rhythm System of birth control is based on a modicum of science, and faith in the Rhythm system may be demonstrably true and believable to many Catholics. But as the old saying goes, "What do you call a Catholic woman who relies on the Rhythm System?" answer: "Mom!"

Mormons will look you in the eye and testify to you that the divine origin of the book of mormon is, in fact, true and believable.


What meaning did you think Grant was trying to convey?

I think he was saying that the foundation that the church was built on needed to be true to begin with for us to have faith in it now. Because the first vision and the BoM, etc., are lies we cannot have faith in God as described by the LDS church nor in the church itself.

Yep. Faith might be about expectations, however, it's not possible to continue in faith once you learn that your faith was built on lies. You may WANT to continue believing, but then your "faith" transitions to delusion.

I don't know what his purpose was exactly, but I like the quote; it fits my purposes. My "faith" was not built on truth. It was built on lies. Therefore, it was not faith.

"Bushman's book is pushing more members out of the (MORmON) church than mine ever did"

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Bushman's book is pushing more members out of the
> (MORmON) church than mine ever did"

Soon after I married my wife, one of the Bishop's counselors, knowing that I was reluctant to convert, recommended I read Bushman's book to allay my concerns...without insulting my intelligence, I presume. It proved to be the impetus for the resulting research that would ensure that I never, ever become a mormon.

Truth can't be used as a basis for moral conduct because everyone has their own truth. However, goodness is universal. The best moral advice is:

Be excellent to each other.

If something is true it is based on verifiable fact thereby rendering faith unnecessary.