I remember back during October General Conference of 2015. At this point I was pretty dissatisfied with the church, believed it was false but as many of us here know that when you are raised in the church it still has some hold on your life and is hard to let go. I was excited to hear Renlund speak because he had been an area 70 in my mission and I met him and was impressed with him then as I am now. He seemed like a nice and genuine down to earth guy. During his talk, I was really impressed by his sincerity, though I no longer believed in the church. I was still touched by his story of the young man in heart failure. In this talk he joked about becoming an apostle in spite of what he had done (the story of his brother teasing him about that). He then had moments of clear sincerity and honesty throughout his talk, talking about how he emotionally distanced himself and kept himself professional but how that eventually broke down when he saw the parents of the young man who had died. All of this struck a chord with me because I too am in health care and understand that emotional distance you put between you and others. It is a pure defense mechanism. I remember being amazed at his sincerity, compassion and love. Even if I don’t believe in the church, I know this guy is a good man.

Then enter Russel M. Nelson after, and wow. I was astonished of the arrogance he displayed. When you are a TBM you miss out on this kind of crap because you don’t know it’s there although it is obvious. You could see the arrogance on his face as if someone had just taken over his talk show. People were astonished with Renlund and Damnit, he wanted the glory back. He gave a half assed “Welcome to the Quorum” and reminded everyone of the great losses of the past three. At one point he just randomly through in there the phrase “including my pioneering efforts in open-heart surgery.” The way he said it, it just emanated ego and self-praise. His talk ruined that uplifting moment I had while listening to Renlund speak. Don’t believe me Google the two talks and listen to them yourself. Renlund’s talk was titled “Through God’s Eyes” and Nelson’s was “A Plea to my Sisters.” Listen to Renlund first than Nelson for comparison and watch his facial expressions throughout.

That being said, working in health care I know the amount of caffeine it takes to function at a normal and alert capacity and be able to have the focus you need to properly help your patients. When Russell M. Nelson was “Pioneering heart surgery” there was no 5 hour energy or energy drinks. His teeth have hypocritical coffee stains written all over them. Renlund seems like the kind of guy that could admit that he partook of the devil’s juice in order to save lives and survive long hours that come with the world of medicine. All of this in mind, it makes me wonder, how long before the quorum turns Renlund bitter or into a power junky? I believe Nelson may have always been an asshole but not Renlund. Sure, he may have had a bit of white coat complex, but that didn’t mean he was a tyrant. From the interaction I had with him, he is a good man, and I hope he stays that way but I wonder how many cases there are where these men get disenchanted but somehow fight their mental being to continue functioning as an apostle. Thoughts? Anyone else notice what I noticed?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2016 10:59PM by Suid_AfrikaRM7.

My off-the-top-of-my-head guess would be two or three. The rest were butt-kissers at the very least, and probably worse.

Just for fun, who do you think they are?

Suid_AfrikaRM7 Wrote:
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> Just for fun, who do you think they are?

My guess is Maxwell and Hales. My dad would add Holland, and I feel bad for not agreeing as he once did a major favor for my immediate family, but I cannot based on other things I've heard.

I know nothing about the three newbies. They could be the greatest guys in the world or the biggest a-holes; I wouldn't know either way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 01:31AM by scmd.

my guess is Monson and Nelson's grandfathly kindness is a façade they put on every six months.

Eyering and Hales are probably kind.

Ballard, Oaks and Bednar are most likely stern and cold.

alreadygone Wrote:
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> my guess is Monson and Nelson's grandfathly
> kindness is a façade they put on every six
> months.
>
> Eyering and Hales are probably kind.
>
> Ballard, Oaks and Bednar are most likely stern and
> cold.

I was too busy thinking of dead guys to remember that the 1st Pres guys ARE apostles. Eyring from all reports is a nice guy. I happen to know through personal experience that Dieter is as well, as much as I make fun of the guy. Maxwell was my favorite when he was alive.

What is that quote about good men doing nothing?

That is what I think. On the off chance that a good man enters their quorum, he will be inclined to do nothing.

Some say my great grandfather Hugh Brown was a good man. He tried to do something and that ended up being nothing so in their quorum even if there is a good man and he does something it will be for nothing.

junior apostles can do little.

Hubie Brown was specifically removed from the First Presidency by JFS, even though bedridden men with dementia are never removed. So although I dislike Brown's demanding and authoritarian attitude, I suspect he was at least a voice for sanity in their "policy" discussions. lol

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke

That's a really tough question. Henry D. Moyle I believe was a good man...yet his incompetence and lack of financial knowledge drove the church almost to bankruptcy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_D._Moyle It was him that decided the church needed to buy and run a cattle ranch in Florida.

Poor Alvin D. Dyer was "ordained" an apostle and became part of the first Presidency, yet he was never allowed to join the Quorum of the Twelve. It was his racist preachings and beliefs on the lineage of Cain that David O. McKay wanted?!?! yet he was too far out there for even the racist quorum?!?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_R._Dyer

Also we have to realize that many "smart" intelligent men were trained and taught in a different manner than us later ones. Before you wanted you Doctor or Lawyer to be walking encyclopedias; so memorization and learning by rote was what was needed. Now critical thinking and use of the technology and internet is encouraged for science, technology, education and maths. Before a smart person just learned and memorized their subjects and that became them. Now you want your doctor or lawyer to access the internet and skype with others to research and "think" critically and creatively to help you as much as possible.

Zero.

By the time you're 60, and called to be an apostle, my guess is you are set in your ways. If they were moral men before being called they probably will stay that way. If they were ass holes, same thing. They already climed the ladder of church leadership and were GAs. Of course, being in the Q12 probably really messes you up many ways....

Monson was called before age 40; Hinckley, Benson, and Kimball by age 50. Oaks was 51/52 when called, as was Bednar. Holland was 54. The earlier they're called, the less formed their character, and the worse they get while in office.

in a septic tank all the really big turds rise to the top.

With all the mormon dentists, you'd think Nelson would get his teeth whitened for free at the very least. If that didn't work, i'm sure he could score a deal with some good onlays.

Who ever made Monson's horse teeth should be fired. There are much better options out there then what he has for teeth. I cringe every time I see those horrid teeth.

There was a time that I might have believed that there were a few good men leading the church. However, after learning about the 2nd annointing; it's crystal clear that it is nothing but a farce to keep the scam going.

I think they may have been good "to men", women, not so much.

I actually think Pres.Hugh B.Brown was a good man that could of been a guiding light for the future of the Church . Unfortunately, when Pres.Mckay died in 1970 HBB was sent back to the 12 and the newest vacancy was filled by Boyd k.packer and Bruce R.Mcconkie would soon follow in the Quorum-I always enjoyed the bio written by his grandson Ed Firmage,I've forgotten the title.

An Abundant Life: The Memoirs of Hugh B. Brown

Not one of these guys have a measure of "goodness" sufficient to allow them the power of their convictions and choose the weight of their own conscience over corporate obedience orthodoxy.

Every single one of these turds will (and regularly do) set aside their innate human empathy in deference to obedience to the "LARD"'s Church.

These are all men without shoulders who have exchanged real virtue they may have ever possessed for the counterfeit sanctimonious feelings that come with prostrating yourself before taboos observance and religious rituals.

Renlund's self deprecating talk should be interpreted as him struggling with the last vestiges of his capacity for hypocrisy as he prepares to lord it over you, and make pretense of authority that he knows he doesn't have.

If he still has an occasional inconvenient pang of empathy, this will be remedied by the time the next GC rolls around. All of these "men" continue to destroy families and lives without any empathy whatsoever.

They are all EVIL to the last man... If there ever was a good GA it was probably BH Roberts and it was because of his "goodness" that he struggled with hitting the bottle to ease his troubled conscience.

westerly62 Wrote:
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>
> These are all men without shoulders
>

Not only that, but they're men without hats as well. I never see them wearing hats.

Historischer Wrote:
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> westerly62 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > These are all men without shoulders
> >
>
> Not only that, but they're men without hats as
> well. I never see them wearing hats.

They are, however, asshats.

They were probably all fairly good up until they were nine or ten years old.

He's the perfect replacement for Monson and could be the first prophet to surpass 100 years since Methuselah. LOL.

Nelson rose to the top of his profession of heart surgeons which is damn cool in one regard but not a good fit for rising to the top of paid clergy like he is now.

Humility and kindness and are not the main characteristics of narcissism which appears to be a rather common trait of surgeons.

Nelson will continue to be out of touch with the common LDS folks while being puzzled as to why they are not dazzled by his leadership in these the latter-days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 11:53AM by cricket.

LOL +

It is structured to produce hypocrites from an authoritarian-based hierarchy derived from an ancient devoted Hebrew preaching about love at the end of the world and a 19th Century charismatic Protestant conman preaching about righteousness at the end of the world.

No good men can come from that. Only the loathsome and depraved can use a failed messiah and a self-righteous conman to rule over the hearts of people.

+1000 Well said!

IMHO. Any exmo that doesn't get this is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

The original 12 at the last supper with JC perhaps. No EVIL CULT apostles have ever been anything less than evil as*holes.

And for the record, Bed-the-boys-Nar is NOT stern and cold when he is around young boys. He is hot and bothered instead.

Pity his wife. The look on her face when he said there are no gay people in the EVIL CULT was actually painful to watch.

When is he going to say there are no pedophiles in the EVIL CULT? Guess he can't since he knows that he himself is following in JS's pedophilic steps [except boys rather than girls and he prefers the boys to be several months shy of their 10th or 11th birthdays!]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 12:03PM by verilyverily.

It's got to be frustrating for Bednar. His new superpowers have never quite worked right. His first clue was when he had to rely on Hinckley and Packer rather than Jesus for revelation.

I'm sure he had fantasies as a young man of doing great things for the Lord. That's what tends to keep intelligent young men inside the church. And now he has to drag that "elderly" woman everywhere he goes. It's never as good as you think it's going to be. He's been reduced to preparing for a rather improbable afterlife by enduring to the end in his personal failings and narcissistic self-image.

They do say that the women in Heaven are a lot younger...

If an apostle is "a good man" he will never lie. He will always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. He will always tell the truth about Joseph Smith, the Book of Abraham facsimiles, the rock/hat translation method and never remain 'silent' when it is to their advantage.

A good man, an honest apostle, would follow to a tee the description of honesty as found in chapter 31 of the Gospel Principles manual that the missionaries teach to investigators and new converts. https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-31-honesty?lang=eng

. . . "Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.

. . . "The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty, and we will have to account for our lies. Satan would have us believe it is all right to lie. He says, “Yea, lie a little; there is no harm in this” (2 Nephi 28:8). Satan encourages us to justify our lies to ourselves. Honest people will recognize Satan’s temptations and will speak the whole truth, even if it seems to be to their disadvantage.

I have never seen an LDS Apostle that tells the truth. Therefore, he cannot be a good man.

I served as a ward clerk when Henry Eyring served as Bishop of the Stanford University Singles Ward. He was well liked and was a very popular Stanford business professor. I worked with several individuals that wanted nothing to do with the Mormon church, but had taken one or more of "Hal Eyring's" classes. They always spoke highly of him.

It's truly sad that someone like Hal who was once quite liberal in his beliefs and very accepting of the views of others has now become so fossilized that he is unrecognizable.

What an enigma this Eyring guy is, does he still believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzK9OjBL1Xw

I think what happens is that they still believe in God, but increasingly believe that they themselves are God. They still believe in prophets, but believe that they themselves are prophets for finding the real meaning of what the prophets have said.

And Eyring must be somewhat jealous that he still has his full faculties, but people call an empty house like Monson the real prophet.

That's a pretty amazing collection of clips of Eyring during GC prayers. What a tool!

I don't know anything about the current apostles.

But I'll go one step down to the presidents of the seventy.

My votes are;

J Golden Kimball. How can you not like a GA that drinks coffee, swears up a storm and calls the prophet out when he thinks he made a mistake.

B.H. Roberts. He challenged the top 15 on several issues including their failure to answer difficult questions about the Book of Mormon. He sought prophetic answers to horses, steel etc and got a fast and testimony meeting in return.

My vote is David B. Haight. Unless someone can give me examples, I think this man was pulled in and just went along with the experience.

My dad Hugh B. Brown when he (my dad) was a young man and thought highly of him. He also knew N. Eldon Tanner before he was made a GA (Tanner was married to my my dad's sister's BIL). Dad never spoke pf Tanner glowingly.

RB