Whenever a so-called "Christian" expresses their hateful, homophobic beliefs they reference "God Law", in an attempt to legitimize their hatred of their fellow men.
When in fact the only thing the Bible says about gays is to kill them, in no uncertain terms.
It say nothing about same sex marriage.
So unless you are advocating genocide against homosexuals, which is obviously completely evil, your argument against gay marriage is completely illegitimate. In fact, the Word of God condemns hatred of 'others', so it's hateful bigots who are the problem with society, not homosexuals.
Christians and Mormons, even on this board, excuse the genocidal God of the OT by saying, "Well Jesus fulfilled the OT laws and replaced them with a new law."

#1. Yeah, "Love your fellow man as yourself", which is the opposite of what Mormons/Christians/Jews and Muslims do by discriminating against gays, to the point where Mormons discriminate against their offspring.

#2.you are completely violating Christ's main commandment, by discriminating against your fellow man, rather than loving them like he commanded you to do. That obviously disqualifies you as a Christian.

#3. So why even keep printing the OT if Christ replaced it with the NT? Its obviously just a meaningless, hypocritical, evil moral code that has zero applicability to modern society. Not only does it tell you to kill your fellow man if he's gay, but to kill your kids for cursing and to kill every man, woman, child and beast in any city that does not worship the same God as you. Any God who advocates that is worse than Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin and Hitler combined.
It belongs on the dust heap of time along with all the other bad ideas our barbaric fore fathers came up with to alleviate their fear of death.
#4. If you were really a "Christian" you'd do what Christ commanded you to do if you want to identify yourself as his follower, sell all of your stuff and donate the proceeds to the poor. Since I don't see any Christians doing that, they're obviously just using that identity to prosper off of their alliances, which isn't a bad survival mechanism, it's just the opposite of Christianity according to the word of God.
#5. Its not Homosexuals who are evil, they're keeping Christs commandment by loving their fellow man. Its those who do the opposite, who are evil, then blame their hate on Jesus, when he said the exact opposite.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 09:54PM by koriwhore.

There's really nothing to add. You covered it all.

helamonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's really nothing to add. You covered it all.

Not quite.

What too often gets missed in these and other kinds of discussions is that when grouping Christians and Muslims together as worshipping a hateful God it is ommitted that ultimately that God wad invented by Jews. Judaism should not get a "free pass" in these kinds of discussions, but too often does.

Lest we fall for "pink-washing", Israel has an increasing problem with homophobia:

http://972mag.com/increasing-homophobia-mars-knesset-lgbt-day/117348/


There is no "special case" when it comes to homophobia. It is species wide and does not require religious training.

They dont have the same excuse as the Christians appeal to their lovey dovey Christian God.

homophobes always hide behind god.

Why cant bigots just own their irrational fears and say, "Yeah, I hate gays and think we should just line them all up and execute them, which has nothing to do with religion. Leave God out of this."?

"Christians, even on this board, excuse the barbaric, genocidal God of the OT by saying, 'Well Jesus fulfilled the OT laws and replaced them with a new law.'"

The bloody tyrant God of the OT goes as more proof that man made god and not vice versa than anything else. Each man's God happens to believe what he believes. Each man's God made the earth for that man and his people, and that man will determine who those people are. So convenient that God always agrees with "that man."

But getting back to your above quote--We live in an age when we understand that raising children and pets works much better when praise is given rather than punishments. Teaching over paddling. Understanding over blind following. Reciprocity and empathy over brutality. So shouldn't the God of all the universe have known that from the beginning of time? Or is he just learning it now, as we teach him?

If God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, shouldn't he have been a better parent than the OT monster drowning populations, killing first borns by the thousands, sacrificing, encouraging rape and incest? Shouldn't he be omniwise and omniloving too?

I'm glad the OT is still there as a record to show how absolutely stupid the whole Bible is.

Christians, since man made God, why don't you show that you can come up with a better one? A decent and fair one? A god who loves all his children even when it's not Sunday.

I tend to follow the current examples of Carl Sagan and Christopher Hitchens.

Wasnt Hitchens supportive of the war in Iraq, despite the fact it was started under false pretenses?
Uh, gee, where are the WMDs?
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/hitchens-and-iraq



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 05:01PM by koriwhore.

I said I follow their current examples, not their past examples. The past may be prelude, but not always.

Apparently you are unaware Hitchens died 5 years ago?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 05:48PM by koriwhore.

OP "So unless you are advocating genocide against homosexuals, which is obviously, completely evil and insane, your argument against gay marriage is completely illegitimate, if its based upon religion." Umm... logically I don't think so. And here's why...

It's also in the old testament to get rid of idol worship. There were lots of campaigns to destroy the "groves." and fertility worship. That was during Davids/Solomans time as I recall. Paul told the christian's to cut these kind of sinners off in the church. Read the book of Romans.

koriwhore, when you're right, you're right.

Not to hijack, but the "preaching" at bible thumpers - as exmos are to TBMs, atheists are to believers.

Hitchens was often referred to as the angry atheist, I feel my own ire, and I read it in your words. I think it's frustration. It's frustrating to deal with the ramifications of a Zeus we now [know] never existed.

That Jesus supposedly fulfilled the prophesies of the OT, except for those who "owned" it, is the reason the nubes left it attached to the NT. That the Hebrews who knew him, met him and wrote/followed the teachings of the OT didn't think that Jesus filled the bill, well, I don't know how much closer to "expert opinion" one could get.

Here's the real rub for me - So Hebrew leaders invent all of this magical, mystical FOLKLORE, knowing it to be contrived, because it's pretty obvious that the fantastical happenings NEVER HAPPENED to anyone they knew. Along comes Jesus Smith, and they're like, "Wait a minute, wait, WAIT!!! He CAN'T be the messiah because we just made all that shit up! It's all metaphorical!" No, the Hebrew Q can't admit THAT, so they laugh, scoff, deride, challenge, refuse to follow or defend him, and here we are. Millenia of the same old arguments/hate/war.

That's simplistic and takes dramatic license, but is the basics of how it's settled in my head.

Messiahs (and prophets) are the comic book superheros of yore.

but I'm not an Atheist, just a Sapien, trying to gain sapience, doing what I can to earn the name we call ourselves, Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Sapience is obviously not a given, just because that's the name of our species.
I see very little sapience around me in society.
And almost none in politics.
Yeah I'm a little angry, because I see so many people who've literally been fucked by Mormonism, which to me is an abusive Doomsday Sex Cult, founded by a sexual predator/rapist/con man, Jospeh's Myth and institutionalized by a racist man whore, BY.
Today's Mormon church is evil in my opinion. It does far more harm than good for society. It is a hate group, plain and simple. It sponsors hate legislation, like PropH8 in CA, like the recent lobbying against gay marriage in Mexico. They're the enemy to me, even though I'm not gay, I've got plenty of gay friends and family who I don't like seeing bullied by this abusive doomsday sex cult.
When I see bullying or bigotry, either in real life or on-line, in social networks, I confront it. I call it out for what it is. It's unacceptable to me, for any reason, to bully people for their race, nationality, sex, sexual orientation, or any other identification one really doesn't choose, except religion.
I don't have any problem whatsoever bullying the bullies, calling out representatives of abusive institutions that have claimed far too many of my friends and family. And it still goes on behind closed doors. Mormons want to 'see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil" which is responsible for turning a blind eye to waaaaaaay too much evil and remaining silent about it, in order to 'protect the 'good name' of the church' or IOW, their egoes attachment to the group think that makes them comfortable.
I see it as my job to make them as uncomfortable in their ignorance and bigotry as possible.
I want to shine a bright spotlight on these abusive bastards, here, on social networks, hell I'll shout it from the rooftops, the Mormon CULT is an abusive doomsday sex CULT. Protect your kids! Don't walk, RUN!!!
So-called "Christians" are almost as hateful. The ones I see on TV or on-line bashing Gays, usually turn out to be crack whores themselves, like Ted Haggard.
Muslims are by far the worst enemies of modern Western civilization. It's pure evil. And I'm saying this as a former Muslim. The only thing worse than Fundamentalist Mormonism, is Islam, when it comes to violence against women and especially homosexuals.
I'm glad a lot of homosexuals are buying up military assault rifles and putting "Don't Tread On Me" snakes on rainbow flags. They shouldn't take violent attacks sitting still any more than anybody else should.
Having said all of that, I'm not an Atheist, in the same sense that Einstein, Sagan, Tyson and Nye are not atheists. Even Dawkins is not an atheist, despite his protestations otherwise. He says in his first chapter of the God Delusion that he believes in "the God of Einstein" which was the god of Spinozza, making them all Pantheists, not atheists. I know Dawkins likes to say "A Pantheist is just a sexed up Atheist" but Einstein would have hated Dawkins simplistic approach to 'the Mystery that is the source of all great art and science".
I don't believe in the God of Einstein, who didn't play dice with the Universe, I believe in the god of Sagan, who accepted that god was"the immutable laws of nature" most of which are a vast mystery to us, which binds us all.
The ancients had other names for that mystery, Tao, Logos and Genius. I like those names better than, god, but god to me is shorthand for 'eternal mystery'.
As far as Hitch goes, I love the guy and miss him, I was just not a huge fan of his later politics, even though there's a part of me that hates Islam as much as him, for what it's done to people I love, like Ayan Hirsi Ali, Salmon Rushdie and Malala.
I guess there's a whole range in every religion from really good, to really evil. There just seems to be a hell of a lot of evil when it comes to Islam. Of course they'd say the same thing about us bombing their countries with drones, so the feeling is mutual I guess.

I assumed you were atheist, sorry.

I have no need of the mystical to wonder at what connections living beings share. Dogs rearing kittens, cats adopting fawn, even plants "communicate with" each other. It doesn't seem a mystery that humans would be even more advanced in these abilities and "feelings."

Millions of hits on those "adorable" YT videos demonstrate that "connection" we share. For a moment, we are transported by that connection, into the awesome awwwwwee, the beauty of natural life, which includes Sapiens.

As for Einstein, genius and Jewish as he was, I give him credit for knowing how to stay alive, how not to become a pariah to his family, peers, governments, etc. I can't know his thoughts or feelings, but I can know much of the climate in which he became a scientific hero, kept the support of devout believers who ultimately proved his theories. I don't know that -anyone- could/would have helped him, had he steadfastly gone about claiming, "There is no God, and I think you stupid to cling to such beliefs." I don't think that all geniuses are confined to one field of "genius." He knew how to get what he needed from others.

Even Dawkins admitted that he thought a derisive approach "may have been an error." He, too, is inhibited by the times. His stated goal is progress toward truth, and you can watch his self-moderation grow, down through the years.

Hitchens. What a mind, what fortitude, what intellectual honesty. Even when debaters didn't catch the faults in his arguments, depending on their ability to fight fairly, he would sometimes point out his own errors. He had to have some respect for his opponent to do that, otherwise he would shred them.

I bid you well, koriwhore. I appreciate the moral soldier you to be. You add good to this world.

Believers often say that Man was created in God's image.

Actually they've got it backwards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 10:31PM by getbusylivin.

koriwhore:

I have been trying for several months now, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what you are so angry about. Do you mind telling me?

I get:
Mormonism
Christianity
Islam
Pretty much any theism
Certain athieists who do not agree with you
The person or persons who wrote anything anybody ever considered
holy writ in any way
Any person and anything that remotely suggests opposition to LGBT
people or their rights or their agenda
Etc., etc., etc.

Now you are going to scream that I am stupid, small-minded, misinformed, prejudiced, and that I don't understand your point of view. That is exactly it! What in the world are you so very angry about?

I am not asking for another rant. Please. I know you are angry, but at what?

Why are you not angry?
I was doing just fine as a happy go lucky (naive) Mormon, until I got a phone call from a close childhood friend my age, who I grew up with who asked me if I had been abused by our LDS scout leader. I told him I hadn't but that I always suspected there was something weird going on in our ward and our Scout troop in particular. He told me a horrific story of how he was raped for 4 years by our scout master. Like most of my other Mormon friends his parents forced him to do scouting and the only way you got a merit badge in our scout troop was to perform sexual favors for the scout leader on the frequent 'campouts' on his property. There was always one of us missing the whole weekend. Turns out the scout leader kept one of the scouts each weekend as a sex slave in his creepy house, while the rest of us slept in the big tent he had out in his field. Fortunately I was never victimized, since I got out the first time I saw what was going on and my parents didn't give a shit about scouts, since my Dad had been forced into getting his Eagle Scout award by his Mormon parents and he didn't want to do the same to me.
I was shocked. He went on to tell me that he was suprised I wasn't victimized because all of the rest of the boys in the troop were as far as he knew. He told me that when he reported the abuse, our Bishop, who was a Boeing Engineer, covered it up, because he wanted to "protect the good name of the Church". He revealed that the sexual predator had a history with raping kids, prior to being installed as our scout leader, but that he had repented and gone through counselling with LDS Social SErvices,who pronounced him 'cured'.
Far from it.
So they silenced all those who came forward about it and failed to report this child rapist to the proper authorities, mainly to protect their own reputations, because they didn't want Mormons to be known as child rapists, when they were just enabling it.
As a result this predator went on to rape many more children in the area, until finally somebody who wasn't Mormon caught the bastard with his daughters and put him behind bars. My friend decided to file a lawsuit against the church and he was soliciting other victims to join him in the lawsuit.
I wasn't a victim, but I volunteered my testimony on his behalf. I spoke to his attorney and explained my situation and that friends of ours who were victimized probably wouldn't come forward to participate in the lawsuit, because their Mormon families would disown them if they did. He said that he's filed a lot of sex abuse lawsuits against the Mormon church and the Catholic Church and he's found a stark difference between Mormons and Catholics. when a Catholic comes forward and claims they were abused by their priests as children, their families come to their defense and turn on the church. But when Mormons come forward in adulthood about abuse they suffered at the hands of their Mormon priesthood leaders, the opposite occurs, the families turn on their own children, brothers, sisters, and defend the church.
I asked him, Why is that?
He said he thought it was because Mormons whole lives are wrapped up around being Mormon and if somebody in their family turns against their Mormon identity, then it's received as a personal attack, rather than what it is, seeking justice.
I was a scout leader at the time I got this news as I had 2 sons in the program. Right around this same time, I overheard a conversation at Scout Camp between my son and a friend of his about another older scout in another troop who was raping their friend, who was mentally handicapped. I questioned my son's friend about it and he said he told the Bishop, but that the Bishop didn't do anything except blame the victim and protect the predator, who was at Scout Camp with my sons, yet the victim wasn't. I was pissed. I went and talked to the young man's Father, who was a friend of mine. He said that he knew all about it and that he'd talked to the Bishop and the Bishop didn't do anything, which was why they kept their son home from Scout Camp, because they didn't want him being victimized by the sexual predator who got off with no repercussions. I was pissed. I went home and called the Bishop, who denied everything. He acted like this was the first he'd heard of it. I told him I was involved in a sexual abuse lawsuit against the church for something similar that happened in my scout troop growing up and if it was me, I'd be suing the church and him personally for failing to protect kids from this sexual predator by sending him to scout camp, and denying the same privilege to his victim.
Around the same time, I found out two of my Mormon nieces had also been raped, by a Mormon, who was protected by the church and the girls Mother, because he was Mormon.
When I went to do something about it, I became the black sheep in my family for endangering my sister, who was protecting the child rapist who raped her daughters. She intimidated her daughters so they wouldn't report the abuse to the authorities. When I went to the authorities, they didn't give a shit. I didn't have 1st or even 2nd hand experience, so my word meant nothing to them.
So that was 3 major blows to my testimony in a very short period of time. The 4th and final blow was 9-11, when the guy I believed to be the mouthpiece of God, fell conspicuously silent. I went from seeing religion as mostly good, to seeing religion as mostly evil, in one day, 9-11.
Fortunately the humanity and compassion shown by the first responders gave me hope in humanity that same day and in the days and weeks that followed.
WHat has happened since then is another story, but I always look for the good in even the worst situation. It seems there's always a beautiful response to human tragedy if you look for it, you'll see it. I think people just want to remind themselves that they're not evil, or at least they are not giving in to that part of them that is evil. They want to appeal to their better angels.
All I want, is to be the change I want to see in the world. Hopefully my children will follow suit.

koriwhore:

OK, now I understand the anger about Mormonism and maybe some of the anger at Islam. I was sexually molested by my mother at
9 y/o. That produces a lot of anger but I know from personal experience that that anger can be dealt with and one can heal.

But what about all the other stuff? You seem to really be limiting yourself so much by being raging angry about so very many things.

Best wishes for your recovery.

Steven

There's a reason for my anger.
Kids are being raped right now and they will be silenced because the people doing the raping are "Priesthood Holders" any one of whom has faaaaar more power and authority than the most senior woman in the Mormon Heirarchy.
How are you not angry about that?
Women are being raped at BYU because they are shamed into believing that if they expose their shoulders, that gives Penis Holders the right to sexualize them and see them as sluts, who want to be dominated by a penis holder.
How are you not angry about that?
The world's largest army of Abusive Doomsday Sex Cult recruiters is out there every day trying to convince the world to sing the praises of a rapist and go to a school named after another rapist, where, suprise, suprise, girls can't talk about being raped, because the boys are protected, they've got the penishood, after all.
How are you not mad about that?
Mormons discriminate against the offspring of homosexuals, not just the homosexuals, but their GD kids have been made into an untouchable class. That's some extreme shit. That kind of hate, leads directly to things like Pulse.
I don't hate anything but hate.
Well, that and abuse.
I too am a survivor of sexual abuse.
Only my abuse happened as a Muslim, in a really fucked up Muslim country. I had to fight for my life to get out of the situation and I guess I've been fighting ever since, to get out of situations that are totally FUBAR.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2016 01:43AM by koriwhore.

The abusive Mormon Sister, who protected the rapist who raped her two daughters, one of whom was still in diapers, she and her army of Cyber Danites stalk me on the internet and read everything I write, so I make it as CogDis inducing as I can.
When I was still Mormon and writing on the internet, her cyber goons blackmailed me to force me to resign. They knew EVERYthing about me and I mean EVERYthing. She's probably the most evil human on the planet in my book, and that's saying a lot.
I welcome her response any time, in a public forum, like this. Because I can back up every word I've said.
And she knows it.
The Morgue knows it to the tune of millions and counting.
and they just want to silence me so the rest of the world doesn't know what I know about this abusive doomsday Sex CULT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2016 01:58AM by koriwhore.

koriwhore:

Thanks. Now I think I understand.

Steve

So that might explain Mormonism, Christianity and Islam, but it doesn't explain

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pretty much any theism.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That's not true at all. I've got no problem with theism.
And I don't have any problem with using the word, god, or seeing it on our money, or saying it in the pledge of allegiance, because when I use or see it, I think, "Eternal Mystery".
I'm a pantheist, which is a form of theism. Like Einstein, only a god who plays dice with the universe, on a quantum level, constantly.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Certain athieists who do not agree with you
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't agree with most Atheists, except perhaps Stephen Hawking, Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, but I'm not angry at them. And they're more pantheist than they are Atheist.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The person or persons who wrote anything anybody ever considered
holy writ in any way
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Tao Te Ching and the Dali Lama's response to 9-11 are my Holy Writs. I revere most of what Epicurus had to say and the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius.
I reject any narrative that ends in apocalypse, because they tend to be self fulfilling, once those who subscribe to them, get access to weapons that can actually deliver a literal apocalypse.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Any person and anything that remotely suggests opposition to LGBT people or their rights or their agenda
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't really have a dog in that fight,since I'm straight, but I've got a lot of friends and family who are gay, most of whom are also ExMo. But they have the right to marry, finally,despite the Morgue's best efforts to deny them equal rights and I think things are moving in the right direction for my gay friends and family, except the whole mass murder thing, but hopefully that's a one time thing and not a pattern of homophobic violence to come.

I stand up for people who are being bullied. When people reject homosexuals and deny them equal rights, that to me is like when I was a kid and blacks couldn't sit at the same counter as whites in much of America. Blacks were still denied entry into Mormon temples. Denying the offspring of gay parents the right to be baptized is the same sort of overt discrimination Mormons practiced prior to 1978. Mormons are proud of thier bigotry.
I'm of the mind to smack bulies in the nose with a newspaper for being bigots. I really have no problem being a bully to bullies.

It's pretty amazing the sorts of opinions you can form when you choose to set them in advance and build a support structure after the fact.

Just regarding the OT portion of your polemic, let's take a run at it this way:

Care to take a peek at any US papers in the days following the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Pearl Harbor was a somewhat distant memory at that point, and many news reports didn't even mention it. In fact, reading some of the reports of our bombing in the absence of any context sounds like we may have wiped out an untold number of Japanese civilians for nothing more than a military gain without any provocation. Is that a complete and accurate portrayal of what happened?

Context is everything. Your screed is of course more intended for the rah rah section down at the bar who will love to chime in with stories about the bigots and ignorant religious types. I'm sure if we allowed your life story to be explained at the hands of your biggest enemy, you'd look like quite a jerk too. The OT does not claim to be a complete history, and little is known about many of the adversaries that surrounded Israel. Nor do we know about the diseases that they may have been facing at the hands of other nations. Perhaps you can explain how you prevent the spread of deadly disease in the days before medicine and antibiotics? I believe the only way to do this is to kill every infected thing. Context is everything.

Of all the nations and cultures that existed at the time of the ancient Jews, how many of them are still around today embracing essentially the same deities and religion as they did anciently? How many of them were subjected to a diaspora with the specific intent to strip them of their culture? Is there a single nation/culture from that region today that practices observances with roots traced to those they did several millennia ago?

I'm always amused at those who recite activities in the OT with outraged birthed in thousands of years of distance with its attending maturity and growth. Many of these same people give no thought whatsoever to embracing politicians who just 6 years ago held positions that today they brand as birthed in the deepest of hatred and murderous contempt. Just 6 years ago. And many of you supported those same folks then without branding them as contemptible bigots and haters. What changed in just 6 years? Is it possible the maturation and substance of a society can be granted any leeway whatsoever over thousands of years if you're able to grant the same over just 6 years?

And a final question. If you love your children, what limits do you place on your desire to protect them? Are you willing to fight to protect them? Would you be willing that others should die, if needed, so that they may live? Would you be willing to declare to the world that you would kill anyone or anything that threatened the life of your children? And if so, exactly what form would that communication take if conveyed thousands of years ago. Perhaps it would be exactly what we have in the OT.

One thing we know for certain is that Israel survived until this day. Whatever took place in the past was somehow successful in preserving this nation. The Romans couldn't snuff them out, nor could the ovens of the Nazis. They took abuse and specific exterminations attempts unlike any other nation or culture and survived.

By Chapter 12 in the Book of Genesis, we have God promising Abraham that He is going to make a great nation out of him. And thousands of years later, we see Israel exists as a great nation: The only democracy in a sea of backward oligarchies. Perhaps the OT was written by a father who was willing to do anything to preserve his chosen people.

I just like the Jews because they make great bagels.

Thank you, TM,SH.

This is INSANE. While reading your thoughts I was thinking that you're not defending the God of the whole world, just the ancient nation of Israel's leaders. Then your last sentence summed it up to be exactly that. When I looked to see who wrote it I was not surprised to see your name. Why don't you just leave this board? You have nothing to say regarding recovery from Mormonism other than that you want us to join your warped version of Christianity. That's the same things Mormons and many other religions do to others. We don't need that garbage here, or any more of the garbage about Christianity that you spew! Don't bother responding to me because I won't read it; none of your words are worth my energy (you've proven that!).

Tall Man, Short Hair

Hang in there TM,SH:

I got an almost identical tongue lashing awhile back. I think maybe from the same person. R2 fails to understand that very often recovery from Mormonism involves considering theistic revelation other than that of the LDS. The consideration of the very concept of revelation is often part and parcel of escape from any man-made religion. Certainly from a system that is built on the idea of diety actually speaking to humans.

There is another woman on this forum who will accuse and rage in the same way. You and I are lambasted and accused of trolling for Christianity when the truth is that our critics cannot stand a point of view that challenges their own. I don't troll for Christianity. I would just like to see people like R2 actually THINK.

Everyone here isnt a religion hating atheist. Get over yourself and learn a little tolerance. Theists have a right to be here.Maybe you would be happier on an atheist board

RFM has taught me to be much more tolerant of stalwart atheists. They have been denied a satisfying spiritual life by a religion that totally burned them out: Mormonism.

You are one of my favorites, but I must say I'm not big on that statement. I find offense when Christians and theists want to insinuate that atheism and spirituality are mutually exclusive.

I have been an atheist for forty years after exploring many religions including Eastern religions once I left Mormonism. I have not been denied a satisfying spiritual life--quite the opposite. My spirituality grew by leaps and bounds.

Mormonism did not burn me out. It caused a lot of pain, but the pain made deep scars that could hold more of the spiritual in the end, and I like to believe hold more understanding.

As an atheist I don't pile any extra meaning onto things and that is spirituality to me. I connect with "what is and what my eyes and heart tell me." That is enough. I let life itself tell me, I don't tell it. I let nature inform me. A flower is much more beautiful when you realize it created itself. (I know many will say that is impossible, but my comments back are a story for another time.)

Religion created itself too in my view, but not with as much success as a flower.

I have no issue at all with a belief in a creator. The religious views of my friends and associates is not colored by what they believe. I can still see their humanity first and often never see their religion.

In a discussion such as this I will give my no holds barred views. I enjoy many of Koriwhore's posts even though we are probably at odds on some things. In daily life, no one ever hears a peep from me about any of this.


Best to you.

I have no problem with atheists if they can live and let live. Same with believers.There is no excuse for accusing posters of trolling simply because they dont share your opinion. If someone is breaking the rules, report it, otherwise accept that you dont have to be an atheist to post here