This song really hits the nail on its head.

It is about many of us.

"New blood joins this earth,
And quickly he's subdued.
Through constant pained disgrace
The young boy learns their rules.

With time the child draws in.
This whipping boy done wrong.
Deprived of all his thoughts
The young man struggles on and on he's known
A vow unto his own,
That never from this day
His will they'll take away."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 04:01PM by sommarlov.

"Like Grandpa Willie used to say, 'If the shoe doesn't fit, then that ain't your shoe'." --Dr. Mary

I believe everything in the dream of this life was karmically chosen based on reactions to dreams of a past life, while all along the real "I" is sleeping. So yes, accept that 'you' (the deeper reincarnating persona) did indeed order them--and precisely to cause the present reactions by the surface personality--but that it was an erroneous choice (if you can go that deeply).

You started your argument with a I with out the "I".

How do you know that you believe this all at all? Do you now the ever-expanding future? It can be quadrillions of dreams in an instant in this ever expanding universe. Does karma change in eternity? How can there be a past life when the time-scale is ever-expanding?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 04:27PM by sommarlov.

"You" are right: the I that believes this is part of the illusion.

Who are the "you" ("you"/you) that "you"/you are adressing? Do you really believe that you got an "I"/I? What are "you"/you trying to say?

You can not write "You" and later after that present an argument desribing a real I who is wrong in belief because the I is partaking in an illusion. Is the illusion an "illusion"/illusion?

If there is no "you" there is logically no "I" and you can not write an argument that implies that there is a real I living within an illusion that implies there is a world circumventing the dream. Because the illusion implies a real present world.

So your argument does not follow and you can not change or alter the world by using "" or not use "".

The appearances in the illusion are not real, but the minds that believe they are those appearances...these minds are real.

Why do you write minds in plural? How do you know they are in plural? How do your/"your" "I"/I reach that conclusion?

If there is a plurality of minds there must be one standard that describes the differences in the dicothomy: plurality and singularity.

If apperances in plural are illusions you must first show me how minds are in plural and how minds in plural can spot general apperances that is identifiable by plural minds that you describe as living in illusion?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 05:06PM by sommarlov.

It's a matter of respect for others (for who they really are). This is not a solipsistic dream where "others" have no existence and so can be selfishly used according to our whims. I don't know if the Being that is animating them is exactly the same as animates me--whether in fact there is only One Being--but in this dimension of appearances it's safe to surmise that none of us is awake at that level, so there must be some kind of compromise. There is some Reality about us, but it is not on the level of our mutual appearances (which are highly filtered if not entirely projected by our own personal limitations).

If you have a different take on our interpersonal experience, please tell it. That would be more helpful than simply finding fault with mine. Thanks.

Yeah, you're putting your direct experience out there. Maybe you had a spontaneous insight, maybe you had help from "friends". It turns out that my experience is kind of like yours in that separation is an illusion, a kind of collective dream. But of course it's an illusion because we couldn't live it if it weren't. Everyone believes in something, that's life, and people are allowed to believe in anything. Even Mormonism, although as most of us have learned, that isn't sustainable or healthy.

The old characterization of this overmind dimension of us as an externalized God, or cosmic monarch, is broken and you're looking for a middle ground between East and West. I tried Atheism. It didn't work, but I tried. Taoism seems to be the closest explanation for my own experiences of the mystical.

Hippy dippy grooving on extrasensory reality can only go so far in a forum like this, but I'm all for it. The atheists have their turn, let's give Cosmic Richard a turn. And why not my own woo? After all, I've been outside time enough to know that everything that can possibly happen has already happened. It's just how the coding works. You get this monolithic fractal representation handling the infinitesimal possibilities using the finite (but very large and rich) format of the Akashic record. We're just rolling the multidimensional tape, like a projector running backwards to the beginning of a divine thought of "God", which is us.

Old Joe sold us on heaven, but heaven is now. Wherever now is in the time and space of this universe and beyond. The greatest illusion is that heaven is not on Earth. Of course it's on Earth. Why else would we come here? What, did we screw up and were banished here? No, we are divine and we love this place. No being strives to be perfect until they are. They're already perfect. It's just that we tend to piss each other off. Divine beings and their awakenings.

Edit:
But anyway, I think "One Being" works in the inner context where all is one (in a Pantheist way). When Jesus said "I AM", he was making a general statement about being self-aware. He never said he was better than anybody else. OTOH, separation and illusion serve a divine purpose in the creative process. You can't piss on the ego just because it messes with your spiritual ideas. Mormons do that a lot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 11:50PM by bradley.

What made me nitpicky was that I initially felt that you defined me as an "I" and yourself as an I. It reminded me of all the thousands of days of hypocritical double standards I experienced in the daily life of the religious community I belonged to. Day after day of unsolvable meaningless mental puzzles that was about what they wanted and no respect for my basic integrity or basic needs.

It has taken a toll on me and I am a bit dull and bitter.

The boxing guard is always up and I am ready for counter-attack because I feel it must be so in my life right now because I can not go back to be defined by others into pieces. They had decades of my life in control.

The most meaningless problem in my upbringing was that I was never allowed to do anything and everything I did was wrong and the older I got people around me started to demand that I must be doing something with my life! I had tried all my life to do something with it they just stopped the process all the time by shoving guilt and shame on me!!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2016 04:18AM by sommarlov.

How can plural minds in illusion beeeeee what the believe?

You will not make money out of this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 06:34PM by sommarlov.

I did not order this weather.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did not order this weather.

Maybe individually you didn't, but likely the collective "y'all" did.

Did we vote on it? Because I would've abstained, sure as hell.

Words heralding the beauty of life, and for the most favored, the foundation of a life well lived:

"Nothing means anything and then you die."

No, I identify more with this:
White Lion - When the Children Cry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhCqJuXvoWo

This is a very confusing conversation for me. My only comment is... White Lion sucks.