I'm a non-member.

I attend church with my wife and 3 young children and have since they were born.

Typically sacrament, then I leave while they finish.

We are in a new ward and my wife was interviewed.

The Bishop tells my wife that he can tell that I am a good person.

I told my wife that I am bothered by the fact that she is discussing whether I am a good person or not with another man she barely knows.

It is odd, and I find it odd as well that someone as an authority figure in a church is making judgements about whether people are good or not. Shouldn't he be assuming the best about everyone?

or am I just over reacting?.

You're being rational. That is a capacity mormons lack when the church is involved.

See, he's the "bishop", which is a mystical creature doted with all kinds of magical powers, and mormons believe in him.

It's like if your 7 year old came in the house that he's met a Hobbit in the garden... You might be tempted to set him straight, but it's so damn cute!

As long as the bishop is on your side, things will be fine.

Most likely the comment was unsolicited. As Father of the Ward, the Bish has total and complete authority to pass judgement on all who live within ward boundaries. Including non-members as he is responsible for their salvation as well.

They say that kind of stuff to establish the pecking order.

Maybe he's out of line. But maybe he senses some concern on your wife's part about the viability of her relationship with you as a non-member, and he's trying in some fashion to re-assure her about the relationship. But also maybe he's just trying to get in her pants by seeking to be a genuinely good guy, while being privy to information about the imminent destruction of your marriage. Hard to tell.

Yeah, my first thought was the bishop's possible subtext: "He's a goo0d person--in spite of the fact that he's a godless heathen."

That's the message I get when my wife's bishop tells her that I'm "such a good man and so supportive" of my wife and her callings.

It was after one of her recent talks with him that she resumed voicing her hope that I would see the truth of the church. But that is precisely why I will never join.

"Good" to mormons means they are likely to convert. The bish needs to apologize but I'm sure isn't capable of understanding that fact.

It seems to me like the bishop is trying to "set the stage" for trying to goad you into become a TBM. The "logic" (if you want to call it that) is as follows:
1. "Your husband's a good person"
2. ...which leads to...
3. "A good guy like your husband should be a TBM and..."
4. "...should be taking you to the temple, and..."
5. "...should have multiple mundane callings, and..."
6. "...should spend every waking moment doing TSCC stuff, and..."
7. "...should spend 10% of his income for the rest of his life supporting TSCC..."

blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Don't take the bait, ma. It's a sham and will destroy your life.

My husband and I have been married 17 years. I was raised in the church, he wasn't and had no interest in becoming one. About 8 years ago, I was called into the bishop's office and told that my husband needed to straighten up because he had the lessons and knew the "truth" and unless he was baptized soon, he would miss out on his chance. But I was told " don't worry, you are a righteous woman and God will give you to a righteous priesthood holder so you can enter into the celestial kingdom".
I was so mad that I took my kids and left. I came home crying and told my husband what had happened and said I never wanted to go back to church again.
His response surprised me, he said that I needed to go back to church, to keep going. He said that if I left the church in anger, I would always question and wonder if I did the right thing and would end up back at church again. But, if I wanted to leave the church when I was not mad at this idiot anymore, he would support me 100%. I stopped attending within two years of that and have since removed my name.
The thing is, as a mom and the "believer" I was often asked if my husband was going to join. When I said I didn't think he would, people would always add, " Well, if he makes you choose, you have to choose the church". And like an idiot, I would nod in agreement.
My husband never made me choose, ever. He suported me in all my callings and my taking the kids to church, he even came ever once in awhile.
good luck! I know my husband put up with a lot of crap from the different wards, but he knew it was important to me. He gave me the time I needed to realize how much he really means to me and no religion is coming between us again.

Love this.

You have a good husband. He doesn't need any religion to tell him that, and neither do you.

Tell your wife that you meet with a female friend alone and discuss her. Assure her that your friend thinks she is nice.

Ask her how that makes her feel.


The nerve of that guy. He is going to butt into her marriage and let her know you are worth converting- because you are a nice guy and all.

Lay down the law now about your kids. They are NOT to be interviewed alone by an adult male LDS leader. Your wife's and children's sex lives are none of their business.

They are skilled at overreaching boundaries and the members are taught to allow it.

You are right to have a gut reaction.

This board has plenty of cynicism regarding all things and persons Mormon, most of it very justified. Perhaps ma's concern is imbibing of this. While always on the alert, I'd be inclined to give the bishop a bit of leeway on this--the benefit of the doubt. Of course, we have very little information.

He certainly wants to get to know your wife, ma, and his information is based on his meeting you, somewhat, his interviewing her, and perhaps information from her previous bishop. These are grounds for concern (the last, especially), but my take is that he is looking for the good in you, "ma," and wants to establish a positive relationship.

So he compliments her on having a "good man" for a husband. Perhaps he harbors more negative thoughts, perhaps not. At least he hasn't asked, "so what are we going to do about this godless, lost sinner of a husband you're stuck with, "Mrs. "ma"? Maybe that will come later. Maybe not. Honey works better than vinegar, as they say.

"He's a good person - just needs a little work".

He acts like he's in a position to judge you.... I'd be pissed off too. He needs to back the fuck off. Who you are is none of
his business. I would resent the hell out of that.

Why bother feeling resentment? People can judge all they want. We have no control over it. Given limited information, I'd give the bishop the benefit of a doubt that it was a short-sighted but benign observation.

However, if the op can establish that the comment was not really a judgment, but rather an underhandeed attempt at something nefarious, it'd make sense to confront the bishop. In any case, the op should explain his concerns to his wife.

Better to look at the situation with a clear head and unfettered eyes and deal with it realistically.

I'm not suggesting that normal reactions be denied. I agree with your post. But I think if the situation is viewed with a clear head and unfettered eyes, there will be no resentment at merely being judged. Resentment will not keep the bishop from judging. It only gnaws at the person feeling the sentiment, and works against keeping a clear head.

< or am I just over reacting?.

Yeah.

It is the Bishop's job to get to know every family in the ward (that includes part-member families). Through the interview process he also assesses what needs (if any) a family might need.

The majority of Bishops are good, caring, people. It sounds to me that he was making your wife feel comfortable and assuring her that he felt she had a good man for a husband. That is FAR BETTER than having a Bishop counsel a wife to leave her non-member husband for someone who is worthy to take her through the temple. It also sounds like this Bishop is willing to start off a relationship by assuming you are a good guy. That is far more preferable to him thinking you are a non-member bum and having you work your way into his good graces.

I think your Bishop sounds like a pretty good guy. So yeah, you did overreact.

Don't create drama where there is none. Life is full of drama itself on it's own without us having to create some more.

Thanks for stating it so well.

I agree as well.

when a mormon says he seems like a good guy - what is really being done is a judgement that good guys who aren't mormon are not quite living up to their ability.

Only mormon men who have the priesthood and who are fully invested in the church are the shiz.

Everyone is really just a "good guy" - kind of second class. Not evil but probably a bit lazy, a few porn issues etc.

It is an institutional problem in the mormon church.

New ward, new bishop. Says he knows you're a good person, but thinks "he'd be better, and more useful, as a member."

The church has time-tested ways of gradually drawing people in. He may ask to meet with you soon, at which time he can "invite" you to stick around for the Gospel Principles class, meeting the missionaries and the ward mission leader, etc. IOW, slowly but surely ramping up the pressure to join up. Expect some lectures about losing your "forever family" when you resist.

Has he assigned you home teachers yet? Does your wife get visiting teachers? If yes, the bishop already has eyes on the ground, reporting to him.

Bishops often think they can do pretty much whatever they want. He already imagines he has your kids planted firmly in the cult. Now he wants your tithing money. Be careful.

You likely are over reacting but I can't tell from your post there has been any serious interaction between the bishop and you. If there eventually comes either formal or informal conversation you might end it with " I don't know if you are a good person yet. Perhaps you will eventually show your colors." That would keep things on an even keel. Mutual neutrality now in place.
Gatorman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 10:22PM by gatorman.

All your answers have been very helpful to me.

More Questions: So “good” can mean different things depending on how it’s used and who’s using it…

1. “Good guy” is appropriate for men. How is it phrased for women? Are adults ever asked if they’re “good” like a child would be asked, and what does this mean? Is there any usage that's unequivocally offensive?

2. Is it ever code for other things e.g. used to identify other Mormons?

3. "Good" seems to be passive aggressive code for "lower status" for potential converts. Does it actually mean "good" when used for Mormons?

4. How are potential converts identified? Other than appearing vulnerable in some way, what makes them decide to target one person over another?


Thanks in advance for your answers.

Potential converts are targets if they are polite and accommodating, if they could pass for mormons in a crowded room. It's preferable if they have no facial hair or tattoos and they have reasonably conservative clothes and hair cuts. Having no "extremest" opinions helps as does seeming to pass for being a little gullible.

This is precisely why my wife (as well as, missionaries, HTs, bishops, etc.) thought I was definitely going to convert, despite my frequent and consistent insistence that I never would.

My wife has frequently said that I am "more Mormon" than her RM ex.

That's called "being judged".

Converts are ALWAYS second class.
Potential converts are "nice."
Desirable converts have income.

There is not enough information here to evaluate the situation. It really could have just been a compliment.

Translation:
"Why isn't your husband a member?"

pettigrew Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Translation:
> "Why isn't your husband a member?"


^^^^ this ^^^^

Well if one of the three kids, at the least, is a boy the Bishop will just be glad to know that in a few years there will be Holder Of The Holy Guacamole Priesthood living in the home to lead it in the right direction.

Because everyone knows that 12 year old is better suited to lead a family than a Yucky Lucky Non-member.

I think, given a similar situation, I would have replied with a touch of irony, "I wouldn't have married him otherwise, Bishop."

My mom told me about a parent/teacher conference that she and my father participated in long ago. A teacher told my father that I was a very bright child. And my father, normally a polite man, responded, "Of course she is."

I keep my father's response in mind when I conduct my own parent/teacher conferences. So I might say something like, "As you know, your child is very bright." His comment taught me that I should not talk down to people when commenting about one of their family members.

In addition to all the other comments, I should remind you/point out that this is a lay clergy, so this bishop has zero training or credentials. He's going by some manual that's published out of SLC. He does not have a divinity degree or any training in theology; he's not an actual minister. He's most likely not a licensed, professional counselor, or social worker, or psychologist. He has absolutely zero qualifications to do this job. He has no idea what the fuck he's doing.