With New York being such a busy cosmopolitan city with its residents leading busy lives are the same standards expected here from the church as they would be in say Utah,Arizona etc particularly regarding dress and callings?

The church will control and use you regardless of location.

I think the main difference is that even if you are acting perfect or not, the east coast has less TBM members snooping and tattling about your every move like it does in the intermountain west

darksided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the main difference is that even if you
> are acting perfect or not, the east coast has less
> TBM members snooping and tattling about your every
> move like it does in the intermountain west

My own personal experience with East vs Western Mos:

When I went to BYU for a brief and insane period, My roomies were RM's from Idaho and CA, with the exception of the convert from MO. The former were nosy, butted into my business, tried to install a curfew, etc while the latter just let me be. A later roomie from the East Coast had no interest in what rules I was breaking, she was more concerned about my well-being and safety.

So from my experience, east coast Mos aren't irritating to be around while the Western ones can be insufferable.

I concur. I'm an east coaster and the few Mormons I know are amiable people. I'd never know they were Mormon if they didn't tell me.

...when I lived in the city,the Church had been meeting in an ex-Jewish synagogue downtown. Had lots of visitors, drifters, malcontents, Bohemians, etc. Was one of the better Wards I attended.
...now, if the Church would only open up a Ward in the Village, there's no telling who or what might show up!

Where we live on the east coast, the standards of dress are higher than in Utah. Not only to the men wear white shirts and ties, they also wear suits or jackets. There is some informality creeping in from the migrants from Utah who drop the jackets and, horrors, are so informal. This begins with the EQ and spreads.

Rhgc,
Wow,I am amazed that you say that things are even more conservative on the East Coast.Very interesting.I thought it would have been the opposite!

A good friend of mine was called to the Washington DC mission in the late 70's. A couple of weeks before departing, he received a letter from the mission office with the dress standards for the mission. The were normal missionary dress standards X100. They had to look like an attorney appearing in court at all times! There was a a half a page on how their shoes had to look like! I was thinking, damn! I hope I don't get sent there!

It's true that the District is very conservative in terms of dress. It has more of a southern mentality when it comes to appearance. Travel just a bit east or north (Annapolis/Baltimore) and it gets far more casual and relaxed.

I'd wager only the clothes are more conservative, which reflects the East coast. When I travel on business to the west coast I wear khakis and polls, on the East coast I am in a suit.

True, the people here are more liberal in politics. BTW because I wear a suit all week, I can't break the habit on Sunday and, although the only one, I wear my suit on Sundays at services where most (read: almost all) are dressed informally. I have taken off my jacket during services a couple of times as there is no air conditioning. Thank God, we don't sing: "We thank thee .... for a prophet."

Absolutely. On the east coast I wear pantyhose and slips. West coast that's totally unnecessary. My grandmother from Philly freaked out on me because I wasn't wearing pantyhose (out to dinner or something). Definitely more formal dress standards on the east coast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2013 12:21AM by goldenrule.

This is just a guess, but I bet there isn't a denim jumper in church on either coast.

You lose the bet. I've seen it.

Recently? Honest? I was sure that the denim jumper was a distant memory everywhere but here.

One of my tbm friends owns one and wore it to the single adult ward in our college days.

Edit: That was around 5-10 years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2016 01:27PM by scaredhusband.

I am on the east coast. TBM raised in the church here are much more relaxed than the ones out west. But to be honest, Most East Coast TBMs are Utah transplants. My ward especially. They come out here thinking they are getting some great job. But then they get here, and realize that the cost of living is very high. So they stay2-3 years thinking they can make it work, but they always move back home. Either because of financial issues or "homesickness" Very few actually stay. We tend to have a very High turnover rate.

OK, so guys might be more formal on the East Coast, My Sis who lives in Boston said that women wear nice pants to church frequently and nobody cares.

She also said that Utah Mormons and East Coast Mormons Are completely different. She visited us this last spring and told me that she could never live in Utah because she can't stand the Mormons in the Morridor. She said that the Mormons in Utah are an embarrassment. I said to her, "This is the Mecca of Mormonism. This is where your prophet lives. If you can't stand the Mormon culture, maybe the Mormon church is not the right church for you"....crickets.

When I was in law school in Michigan, the local members HATED the students who moved in from the intermountain west (AZ,UT,ID). There was so much conflict because the Mormons from the Morridor were annoyed that the mission field members weren't "running the church correctly". There was always tension between the 2 groups.

Also, when I moved back to AZ from HI, I was shocked at how awful AZ Mormons are. Judgmental hypocrites. I was so used to the (relatively) laid back church culture of Hawaii.

I think the closer the members are to Utah, the more toxic they are. No one likes Utah Mormons, even faithful Mormons.

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think the closer the members are to Utah, the
> more toxic they are. No one likes Utah Mormons,
> even faithful Mormons.

Well, since how Utah MORmONS HATE everyone, despite what they say, including and especially other Utah MORmONS!!!

And there is a reason for that, an established pattern/order/ example of rabid predatory opportunism, social climbing, political based ambition over professed principles, phoniness, BACK STABBING, abuse and exploitation ..... Welcome to the (foul) heart and (cankered) soul of MORmONISM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp4ypvIBWiQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmXjObfpwpM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuN_ZDJKkPo

and superlative (SICKENING) displays of insane self importance and abject arrogance ..... in the name of God, like this:

warning this link rings up a hit on a pro MORmON site/ account

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7boTBtn3w



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2013 03:14AM by lucky.

I lived back east for years. I was raised TBM on the west coast.

Utah mormons are viewed as obnoxious know it alls lacking in spirituality where I lived back east.

Every year someone from Utah would blow in and try to show us what it really meant to be Mormon. They were quickly put in their place. Usually they ran back to Utah with their tail between their legs.

Currently my stepson is living on the East coast. I think he's having a difficult time with the BS that the temporary Utah mormons spew all over the Mo's that are from a multitude of other places on the west coast.

The Utah mo's are so into labels, looks, and status. It's a bit much for the mo's from other places in the U.S. I'd be surprised if stepson lasts another year.

I grew up as an East Coast Mormon and moved to Utah. To me, there were two main differences.

East Coast Mormons knew they were an insignificant minority and therefore recognized the value of getting along with the "gentiles." They knew how to blend. In contrast, Utah Mormons, being the majority, don't know the first thing about blending.

Also, back east, if you're an active Mormon, the only other Mormons you know are also active. The inactive ones disappear into the general population and are just mysterious names on the ward rosters. So you only know good Mormons, not the spectrum of TBMs, cultural Mormons, cafeteria Mormons, reluctant Mormons, jacks, apostates and whatnot littering Zion.

Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I grew up as an East Coast Mormon and moved to
> Utah. To me, there were two main differences.
>
> East Coast Mormons knew they were an insignificant
> minority and therefore recognized the value of
> getting along with the "gentiles." They knew how
> to blend. In contrast, Utah Mormons, being the
> majority, don't know the first thing about
> blending.
>
> Also, back east, if you're an active Mormon, the
> only other Mormons you know are also active. The
> inactive ones disappear into the general
> population and are just mysterious names on the
> ward rosters. So you only know good Mormons, not
> the spectrum of TBMs, cultural Mormons, cafeteria
> Mormons, reluctant Mormons, jacks, apostates and
> whatnot littering Zion.


Bingo! We have a winner.

JoyAGE,
The women wear pants to church?How do they get away with that one?I thought dresses were almost compulsory?

How about callings?Are they equally as demanding on the East Coast?

Yes, from what my sister told me and describing her own calling, the callings are just as demanding.

just as phony as any Utah MORmON, just in a different way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrf_aBMFJ40

There is a new meet up group for Mormons / Ex Mormons on the East Coast. WWW.meet up.com/EAST-COAST-NJ-EX-MORMONS/

She and her hubby are in their late twenties, with no kids. She does her thing, with no flack from him.

There have always been pockets of liberalism in Mormonism. Cambridge, MA was relatively open and tolerant; other places on the East Coast as well. Then there was San Francisco and the university wards around there. Sonja Johnson, the feminist, was a well-regarded member of one of the wards around Stanford in the 1970s--until she ran afoul of Salt Lake City.

I've lived in a few of those liberal places and, in some of them, seen the church replace tolerant leaders with more and more conservative ones. Sometimes the change was quite abrupt: a new stake president brings in new bishops and suddenly there are Utah expectations and Utah management. Oversight from SLC has also increased.

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it is sad to see the islands of openness and tolerance lose their autonomy; but on the other, the people who lived there were deceiving themselves about what Mormonism is. It is a brutal, repressive, inhumane religion and sooner or later people need to recognize that fact rather than acting like racism and sexism are optional doctrines.

We've recently seen all this on the internet, too, of course, with the excommunications of progressives who say or do things that church headquarters doesn't like. But the seeds of the new authoritarianism were planted with Correlation in the 1960s and the one-ring-to-rule-them-all attitude of Kimball and Packer and Benson in the 1970s and 1980s. Then there is the massive boot camp that is BYU, training young people in the Utah Way and then sending them out in huge numbers to other states and countries.
The sheer volume of those migrants is gradually eroding the independence of local communities on the East and West Coasts and gradually making them look more Utahn.

So yes, there are better places to be a Mormon. I just think they are gradually eroding.

My ward in a large midwestern metropolitan area has been completely overrun by Utah transplants. The indigenous members have been completely diluted. Almost all leadership positions in the ward and stake are move ins from the morridor.

You can't be progressive and be an active member of an anti-progressive establishment. What's that old parable? Foundation is built of sand, it will wash away. The foundation of Mormonism is rotted to the core. It was never meant to be an open-minded, loving belief system. It was started by a man who raped teenage girls! And then it got handed over to a textbook definition of a cult leader, who impoverished his wives and children for his own gain. All of the past and current leader are anti-progressive people, and they ARE the religion.

To pretend that Mormonism can become or is meant to be progressive or liberal is similar to a spouse saying, "I can change him," about the husband who beats her kids. It requires denial. It requires looking away from hard, ugly facts.

I think it's just as well that the open-minded pockets are having their illusions shattered. They can leave behind a destructive and dysfunctional religion to become who they really want to be, and learn how to make a genuine difference in the world -- rather than just a superficial one. IMHO.

I converted in Michigan and then have lived in the East visiting Utah and also having Utah people moving into DC area wards. The differences I see-all of the above(Stray Mutt was spot on). There are 2 other differences I have seem. One is most women work in the east. Not just a MLM, but careers such as law, public relations, marketing, professors, etc. In the East these are "good Mormon" women. In Utah, they would be disparaged. The RS President in a ward I was in was a NICU Nurse and could not be there one Sunday a month. Again no big deal in the East. The second difference is one can speak their mind more. In DC, when Bednar came out with that inactive talk(horrible), The next Sunday you would have thought the ward was ready to find him and tar and feather him(that was stated in jest). That would not fly in Utah.