I'm watching the Women's Olympic Volleyball match between Canada and Switzerland. This is bringing back memories of sexism in the world, as well as, in the Mormon church.

AT THE OLYMPICS: I'm appalled at the Women's team uniforms; they are skimpy, skintight, bikini outfits. Conversely, the men are wearing long T-shirts and loose knee length shorts. What the hell? Why are the men dressed so modestly, compared to the women? What about equality between the men's team and the women's team uniforms?

LOGAN, UTAH: Back in 1983, I was called to coach an LDS church women's volleyball team. Often our practices (in the church cultural hall) were, before or right after, the men's practice.
In the first 2 weeks of the season, the women wore t-shirts and knee length shorts, similar to the men, for practices, (after all, the temple garments had to be worn and concealed until the knee length shorts).

BUT, the women's attire annoyed a counsellor in the bishopric, who just happened to be on the Men's volleyball team. So, this guy passed down an edict that the women had to wear pants, either "dress" jeans or sweatpants were fine but NOT ANY shorts of any length!
(Wearing pants, while exercising, was extremely hot, and not at all appropriate for serious workouts.)

What ticked me off the most, was that the men continued to wear their long shorts, and they were unopposed because of their priesthood status. I tried to protest, but was quickly shut-down, ( being a lowly 23 year old woman).
The hypocrisy angered me then and still does to this day.

The ladies I coached were annoyed, even upset, but, as usual, they were complacent, compliant and they wouldn't dare challenge "the priesthood long short wearers", in spite of, the hypocrisy and obvious sexism.

I'm happy to say that our Wards' Women, won Gold, FIRST place, in the Stake championship women’s division. This was an amazing achievement for some of these women, because they had NEVER played volleyball before. The tournament was long, gruelling, difficult, but we prevailed and deserved a pat on the back, at least.

The Ward Men were disgruntled and openly jealous of our success, mocking us and downplaying our win, (including the trophy and medals).
The Men had placed 4th or 5th in the same tournament - the Stake championships for the Men of the Ward; the Men's placement in the tournament was proudly announced at the following Sunday sacrament meeting, -- HOWEVER, not a peep was uttered about the Wards' Women's team winning First Place in the Stake!

That was the straw that broke the camels' back, for me. I lost any respect for the men of the church and how they regarded the women.
The men in that Logan Ward, were arrogant, spoiled and unsportsmanlike. The unfair treatment of the women of their Ward (some of whom were their wives and relatives), was irreprehensible.

Just sayin’.

Yeah, I didn't like the Womens' beach volleyball outfits. Maybe they are comfortable in them, and if so, fine. And the cameras were nice not to show their wedgies.

But I was thinking how I'd hate to wear those bottoms and how they'd get a bunch of sand in uncomfortable places. Why not some boy shorts?

Female players have more freedom than men. The thing is they have choices in what they wear. Acoording to this site http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82926043/evolution-of-womens-beach-volleyball-uniforms "Players can wear shorts of a maximum length of 3cm above the knee with sleeved or sleeveless tops or a full body suit". FIVB has published its rules. There are even fully covered players and as they are from muslim countries I suppose they are muslim. But than I am from a catholic country and am an atheist so I wouldn't exclude possibility that these fully covered players are just conservative mormons. Maybe this bishop you mentioned is a volleyball coach in a third wolrd country :).

I was raised in a family with mostly male members, my school was oriented toward STEM and also mainly male. Now in USA I work in healthcare facility mostly with women and though it was scary for me at the beginning i got used to the fact that women love sex as much as men do, and sometimes they like to dress sexy.

Maybe if men could choose skimpy dresses some of them would. I can just imagine those tall beach volleyball players in g strings. San Francisco would be volleyball capital of the world.

I guess u are an American but in many places like Brazil or my native Poland women dress a bit more revealingly. As long as it is their choice I fully support that. And as for men though they should have a right to wear g strings I hope they would not. Hate hairy butts. But than I guess you might have a different taste. Enjoy watching :)

I'm a Canadian, which perhaps makes me a bit pragmatic. (-or so I' ve been told.....)

I find it strange that men wouldn't opt to wear speedos for Volleyball competition, which would equate to the women who wear "speedo size" bottoms.

The men have just as many places where sand can hide and cause discomfort (if not more).

I remember hearing the incessant complaints of women and having to wear this garb, during the last summer Olympics, and the Olympics before that. (It was to do with company sponsorships' dictates, back then - apparently.)
Now it seems, the general consensus is the women want to wear these tiny uniforms, which makes me wonder why there has been a reverse in thoughts, at least via the media reporting...

(All the women have to agree on the same "outfit" so the team is wearing the same style by the same company. The options are now given by the particular clothes making company; in the case of the Canadian team, Lululemon, is the company. (Which explains the ill-fitting attire.)

at the beach! What the hell happened? Now they wear pants down to their knees.

Perhaps the men should wear blue jeans, no shirts and aviator shades with Kenny Loggins being played over the PA. After every point they should do the high-low five, then flex.

Classic!

Honestly all I can think watching beach volleyball and gymnastics is that it looks so uncomfortable. They are amazing athletes, but it always looks like they have wedgies. I like to be comfortable when I'm competing (I play basketball), and they don't look comfortable.

Upon further thought, I see some very small swim suits on the male swimmers, like to the point of basically seeing pubic hair. They don't look uncomfortable, but I do feel a bit voyeuristic looking at some of the pictures of them....

And yes, I agree, the church is super sexist when it comes to everything male/female, including attire and sports.

But I year ya - doesn't look comfortable.... Maybe I'm just too practical of a person - preferring comfort over sexiness....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2016 12:55PM by dogeatdog.

I was a high school athlete when Title IX was passed. I remember that our mediocre boy's basketball team got to practice and play in our school's enormous field house. The league champion girls, on the other hand, practiced and played in the much smaller gymnasium. They were a lot more fun to watch.

I don't have a problem with women dressing however they please. I do have a problem with a highly patriarchal religion dictating that women must be completely covered up, and men, not so much.

Yeah, as others have said, they got to choose what they wear, and they wear whatever they're comfortable in. If you don't like what they wear, don't watch.
That would be a shame, though -- Kerri Walsh Jennings, for example, is perhaps the best volleyball player ever. Indoor, beach, men, women, whatever. At 38 she's more athletic and dedicated than most of the 20 year-olds. It would be a shame to miss her performance because of molly mormonism standards of "modesty."

I'm a sports fanatic who enjoys watching volleyball, as well as, playing it.

By me having made a comment on the women's volleyball attire, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the sport.

It seems to be a misguided and trite response (to me & others) to suggest that if we don't like "what they wear" to just not watch volleyball.

By those standards, this would mean that anything we didn't agree with, should just be ignored, without offering up an opinion about it. That seems silly, in lieu of the forum we are all now participating in. (Which is a venting and complaint forum...)

So if we don't like what the Mormon church does, or has done to us and others...we should just not "talk about it”? If that’s the case, the ExMormon site shouldn’t exist.

*I've never had anyone reference my personal observations as having "molly mormonism standards of "modesty."" This is laughable, to me;I'm an ex-mormon who was a convert, I'm not religious, & I’m not a molly mormon.

So perhaps, you could label me as someone who observes ludicrous, or illogical behaviour (including the mormon patriarchal issues that I talked about, in the beginning of my original commentary… (By noticing how the women's "trunks" ride up into their 'nether regions', with them picking out the elastic, every time they stand up, is an observation made by many people...check out the internet; it doesn't look comfortable & doesn't make sense to many of us.)

Elizabeth S. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if we don't like what the Mormon church does,
> or has done to us and others...we should just not
> "talk about it”? If that’s the case, the
> ExMormon site shouldn’t exist.

The mormon church causes demonstrable harm to millions of people.
What harm are the volleyball players wearing clothes you don't like causing? Other than "offending" you?

> *I've never had anyone reference my personal
> observations as having "molly mormonism standards
> of "modesty."" This is laughable, to me;I'm an
> ex-mormon who was a convert, I'm not religious, &
> I’m not a molly mormon.

From your post:
" Why are the men dressed so modestly, compared to the women?"

That could be a Boyd K. Packer quote.

No, actually, they don't.
They *did* get to choose. Among several options, which include shorts and t-shirts, full body suits, and more.


"Walsh Jennings, whose competing in her fifth Olympics, told the Huffington Post bikinis are best for the job.

"The original way to play beach volleyball was in a bikini and board shorts, and I don't know what else they want us to wear...

"When it comes to beach volleyball, we're playing in 100-degree-plus weather.

"I think we've just gotta educate the public, take it with a grain of salt and make sure that we're working hard and not playing up the sex appeal because it's inherent anyway."

The bikini she will wear when taking on China with teammate April Ross on Tuesday, is designed for peak performance. It's not about being "sexy" or "flashy", she says."

Excellent! Thank you!

Elizabeth S

JB from CP here. Appreciate your post, as usual.

My wife and I were saying the exact same thing about the uniforms. Why are the beach volleyball men not shirtless in banana hammocks?

Don't even get me started on sports in the LDS context. As you know, athleticism is not a word anyone would ever apply to me.

On my mission in Belgium, we would get together and play volleyball once a week in Brussels.

The servers would always aim at me, since I clearly was not very good at setting up or returning, irrespective of where I was on the floor.

Winning is okay, and I get that, but this was just an example of sport bullying. Saw the same thing time and again in lds basketball.

I understand competition, and how it can be motivational, but it frequently seems to be a pulpit for bullying (women, klutzes, etc) in the LDS context.

Yes... I remember the sports bullying, when playing in church sports. It was excessive & aggressive and wasn't in keeping with the idea of sports play, at that level of "church play", in the first place.

I totally agree with what you're saying. :)

The mens water polo teams wear speedos, which does not leave a lot to the imagination. The scandal!

I think this is seeing sexism everywhere.

Does the sport have a required uniform? Or is it what the athlete wants to wear. I would imagine the bikini type uniform would be very comfortable to wear for a sport, giving support where needed but not getting in the way

Queue the Cole Porter song "Anthing Goes"

In olden days a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking... Now heaven knows, anything goes

Yeah, I was treated to the bare butt of a male player in an underwater shot in a water polo match.

I don't think it irreparably harmed me or excited me either. No commentator even mentioned it.

Somehow "skimpy" attire and bare-ish breasts are okay in a sexual context but not in a natural (breastfeeding) or athletic context.

How about trusting women to make their own decisions about what they wear? Watch or not watch--your choice!

wear similar attire?
the fact is, you have to wear the team uniform. You don't get to choose.

Appreciate the study in contrasts you drew between women's clothing in the Olympics and what women were allowed to wear at Mormon sports functions.

Both are casting women in subjective lights, compared to their male counterparts.

As for the unsportsmanlike qualities at the morg, that sounds about right. That woulda cracked my shelf too, big time.

Dingle nuts anyway.

When men start treating women with the respect they deserve, they're also showing respect to themselves. At the LDS church they have it half assed backwards.

Wow.....chill out everyone.

when I look at those wonderful fit female volleyball players in their little outfits I confess my mind does "go there" Is it objectification or admiration? Am I a terrible person because of the fact that even in my waning years I can still have a sexual response to what I see? If their attire is their choice who are we to judge? Isn't that one of the things we tried to jettison when escaping Mormonism? I won't judge them. And more importantly I won't judge myself for what my body says to me when when I see them. I'll just remind myself how good it is to be alive.

And how wonderful it is/was to be young, healthy, fit and beautiful. They and we should enjoy it!

As long as you understand the difference between appreciation and objectification, you're all good. :)

They have a choice in what to wear. They chose those outfits.

How is this sexist? Can you demonstrate they're REQUIRED to wear those outfits?

Where exactly is the sexism here?

They do not, as individuals, get to choose or design these uniforms. They have to wear the uniform.

several posters have stated, and quoted former olympians, that they do in fact get to choose. Where are you getting your information?

I keep wondering how the TV coverage of those games is done in the home countries of the team whose women cover up?

Do they only show their own side, so as not to overexcite the male viewers?

...ball comes from over the net (the unknown zone, hit by a never-seen player) and is returned by their own Muslim women players?

Excellent observation. It's fun when your brain goes the extra mile.

But now I'm wondering, too! What are the citizens of Saudi Arabia, et al., seeing of these Olympics?

Elizabeth S. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm watching the Women's Olympic Volleyball match
> between Canada and Switzerland. This is bringing
> back memories of sexism in the world, as well as,
> in the Mormon church.
>
> AT THE OLYMPICS: I'm appalled at the Women's team
> uniforms; they are skimpy, skintight, bikini
> outfits. Conversely, the men are wearing long
> T-shirts and loose knee length shorts. What the
> hell? Why are the men dressed so modestly,
> compared to the women?

I think I heard this exact same quote in the last sacrament meeting I went to. It was followed up by quotes about how women need to protect their virtue and not get turned into chewed gum, or a licked lolly pop, or something like that.

Maybe you should get over your ingrained obsession with "modesty" and realize that the women wear what they wear out of choice, as do the men. It's a human body, we all have them, relax.

Watching a match right now, and the Australia teammates are wearing T-shirts under sports bras. The Chinese team are wearing bikinis.

They all look good, and are having a good contest.

As long as the athletes get to decide, it's not a big deal to me what they wear. But like sd, I my mind does "go there"--human male--it's just the way it is (another thing the LDS Church doesn't just accept as the way things are).

You old farts, remember watching Ed Sullivan with the family and they'd have a female contortionist? Tell me your mind didn't go 'there'!

Dont go to the ballet... men in tights, bulges showing!

I have idea if it's true or not, but I've heard that some men padded their bulges. Male 'falsie'?

Why not simplify things and go back to the standard of the original olympics: Full nudity. End of controversy. No more excuse to whine about "sexism".

Gotta flatten those looser body parts.

Plus it might make for really painful injuries in racing.

I'm not bothered by the women's suits except I can't help but wonder how they're not picking a wedgie the entire game or getting sand in various crevices. Those bottoms do not look like the spankies I remember and look more like permanent wedgie size.

Another issue with nudity is the sport of men's gymnastics as the pommel horse would be potentially painful for example.

Can you imagine competing in the bicycle events nude? And crashing like the Dutch cyclist? Youch. I meant wrestling up above, but racing sounds like there might be chafing involved.

Not only nude, but the prize was a jar of olive oil-- what kind of image does *that* stir up!?


:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

I'm cool with whatever the athletes want to wear, as long as it's fair. It bugs me when teams without a lot of money behind them lack the technological edge that other teams get from superior uniforms. This is especially true in events where a few split-seconds can spell the difference between a gold medal and not medalling.

As for the Mormons, well, patriarchy is small-mindedness, writ large.

My attitude toward female athletes has changed over the years. These days when I watch sports I realize I've forgotten to think in terms of the sex--or sexuality--of the participants. I'm too caught up in the competition. A couple weeks ago my wife and I were watching YouTube videos of races from the 2012 Olympics. The women's races were great! I specifically recall the women's steeplechase and 4 x 100 relay. Wow! I was shouting "Go! Go! Go!" and scared the cats!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/why-do-women-wear-bikinis-to-play-beach-volleyball/ar-BBvy9if?li=BBu4ILf

Okay?

I find it amazing that female beach volleyball players outfits are a CONSTANT argument.

The same people that complain their outfits are "too skimpy" must not watch any athletes who compete in a water sport.

Compare the males attire to the females. There is a HUGE difference.

Swimming or diving, the men wear super small bikini bottoms and the women wear a one piece. Why is nothing ever said about that? I bring that up every time I hear someone complain about the women's beach volleyball attire...nobody seems to have an intelligent come back. Feminism at it's best.

It's totally one sided.

Beach volleyball is the ONLY sport where the women wear 'less' than the men, so people are focusing on the 1% per se and ignoring the other 99%.

If you're going to argue at least have a viable argument.

If you don't like what you see...turn the channel or turn it off, life doesn't get much simpler than that.

I wonder if they use butt glue to keep their kit in place like gymnasts do.

As a Floridian, I can't imagine what else you'd wear to play beach volleyball other than a bikini. THAT'S WHAT YOU WEAR AT THE BEACH. I have no idea how this is inappropriate to the sport, the weather, and the occasion. Sometimes I wonder if some of you have really left the church, but then I have to talk myself down off the ledge and remind myself that brainwashing goes very deep and we've all been programmed since birth to think that women showing skin is bad and slutty. It's just another example of how patriarchy sucks.

I am sure the rules will change once more black women like Cherokee Dass (DO NOT GOOGLE) start playing beach volleyball

Short Woman, Long Hair said while watching volleyball, "These outfits were clearly designed by men."

She said while watching the men's diving competition, "These outfits were clearly designed by women."

My wife has spoken, so the thinking has been done.