Ok.. so I have this TBM brother in-law.

He is funny, silly, and is an easy going guy... except...

He suddenly flips out and acts like he's going to kill the whole family.

When he thinks he is disrespected, he goes into a total rage, screaming, cussing, stomping around, getting in your face, threats of death and setting the house on fire, absolute worst I have ever seen ever... even in movies.

The kids run and hide (he doesn't care who's watching) and the whole family is traumatized...

This rage can go on for a few hours.

He does this about once every few months.

Now.. time passes... and people forget. After witnessing the last episode myself (and I felt like I needed therapy afterwards)... the whole family is back to normal.

Family get togethers happen, and they invite this guy over, or we are invited to his house for a holiday.

I don't want my family near this guy again... ever...

Here's the problem. The whole family has forgiven this guy over and over... and tells me that I'm the problem and I should forgive and come to the family function...

How do you deal with this?

I have a brother who is like that and TBM.

His temper was so scary as young adults I used to think he was going to explode.

He and his wife both have fiery tempers. So when they fight they both blow up, then make up, and things go back to whatever their idea of normal is again.

In our family he's done some very passive aggressive things as an adult, so I can never trust him again. And he's lost all respect I may have ever had for him because of his dishonesty and lack of integrity - while a BoM thumper and stake missionary ongoing.

How I've dealt with him is by disengaging. I have nothing more to do with him because of his treachery in family matters. He's a conniving SOB. When we were children I would read bedtime stories to him and be his protective big sister. All that changed since he became a grownup, based on his decisions. He isn't worth the trouble he's caused my family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 11:50AM by Amyjo.

I have a brother that does that. When I was younger he used to chase us with butcher knives when my parents left the house. He would destroy our things,punch holes in the wall, and basically go on a rampage. He also attempted (but failed) to molest at least two of his sisters.

My kids are in their 30's, and have never met him. I've told them why. They're probably never going to know him. I think that's a good thing.

Myself, I haven't had anything to do with him for over 40 years.

You don't feel safe around him. Guess what? He isn't safe to be around.

It is perfectly reasonable to steer clear. I am sure that multiple other people in his life have already done this. You are not the unreasonable one. You have every reason to think about protecting your family.

Most people are worse in private than they are in public. The fact that he does this in front of others makes me think that he is extremely violent to his wife and kids in private.

If I were actually to witness this sort of behavior, I would withdraw from the situation with kids and anyone else I felt I needed to remove with me and call 911. That is what they are there for.

He sounds like the kind of guy that you are going to read about having killed his whole family with or without killing himself afterwards.

Also, your thread brings up the whole in law problem. Do not put up with behavior from inlaws that you would not put up with from anyone else. Do not let fear of damaging your relationship with your spouse or other family members coerce you into doing things that you do not want to do or being in situations where you do not feel safe.

They are just in laws. They put up with this psycho on a regular basis and you are the problem? Trust me. Don't bother looking for their approval.

I would simply stay away from him.

I'm just worried about that eventual day...

The day my sister in law comes to visit, kids in tow... with HIM following behind... all at my doorstep wanting to come in for a visit.

That's the day I most dread right now.

I have told her that I don't want him in my house, and she blew me off and told me to "get over it"...

It's going to happen... probably soon.

You told her not to bring him to your house. If he does come, don't let him in. If he forces his way in or will not leave, dial 911.

Anything less than this just leaves you and your family more vulnerable to violence.

I would tell the sister in law who told you to just "get over it" that she isn't taking your concerns seriously and for your own safety and that of your kids, you can no longer have anything to do with her either. Also, let her know that you will call 911 if he comes to your house.

Also, if they come over and you suspect that he is with them, don't open the door. Talk to them through a closed door or call their cellphone. That will provide you with more protection and the police can probably get there before he can break in.

Yes. I am serious.

I agree with some of your advice. I think a lot can be solved with a frank, no BS discussion. But, your constant advice to call 911 is over the top. If he does something aggressive & illegal, yes, call 911. But calling the cops, wasting resources & escalating the situation is not smart or necessary.

If he does something that scares you, including coming over to your house and refusing to leave (trespassing), do not hesitate to call the police. You are not abusing resources. This is exactly what the police are there for. You should not feel obligated to manage this psycho on your own.

It is clear that your in laws don't take this seriously, and that is one of things you most complain about. You dread him coming over. Listen to your gut and protect yourself and your family.

You've already defined what your boundaries are.

Good for you!

You've done the hardest part. When/if they show up on your doorstep you do not answer the door unless you've renegotiated the terms of what you're willing to tolerate, and where.

You owe them nothing more than what you've already told your sister. Maybe... she has not relayed your message to the BiL. But that isn't your problem either.

As someone who can at times fly off the handle.

I can firmly and confidently tell you that his rage fits are childish. And that is why some are so quick to forgive him. I don't hold it against my 4 year old when he tells me that he wants me dead.

I would find a time to express your concerns with him directly not with your sister. Explain that in your home you already struggle with childish behavior from your children and it doesn't help when an adult joins in.

I'm quite serious about this. Direct and to the point.

There is a world of difference between being "someone who can fly off the handle" and "extremely toxic, violent, scary abusive asshole."

Do not conflate the two. What is being described in the OP is the latter. The OP should take steps to protect her/his family.

Thank you, dogzilla, for saying that. I was trying to find the words without going too far, and you did it very well.

I get this and don't mean to sound callous, but this board tends to be fairly alarmist on items like this. It may well be that this person deserves to be maced, tied up, turned over to the police, and shunned by all (all suggestions in this thread). It may be just as likely that he needs to be directly confronted and brought back to reality.

I don't know what the best route is, but I do know that one side of anything is at least one side to few.

Okay, well one or two-off does not mean a consistent pattern of behavior. But if the OP can document or at least count more than three incidents, then I'd call it a pattern of behavior and proceed accordingly.

I'm supposing that your wife and his wife are sisters.

What does your wife say?

If she's in the "oh, it's best to forgive and forget" crowd, you have a problem. Now YOU become the one who is "unreasonable" if she doesn't agree with you.

I'd 'carry your lunch*' with you when he's around and I wouldn't turn my back on him.




*"Do you have your lunch?" is code for do you have your gun.

Tell the family that THEY have a problem and it's not you.

Tell them that you have decided to not take a chance on this

guy doing it again and subjecting your children to his actions.

He's clearly got a problem.

You are a grown man, you don't need to explain your actions

to anyone . They made a choice and you made a choice .

History repeats itself and I'm sure he will pull one of those

tantrums again, but you won't be there, they will.

Let them deal with it. He sounds like a psycho.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 02:19PM by saucie.

Don't worry about what other family members think or say. Your first priority needs to be the safety of your immediate family.

I wouldn't attend a holiday party if it would likely lead to violence.

Pepper spray!!

This is a serious situation. He may never act on his threats, but anyone who makes threats like that in a rage is not a person to be trusted. If he doesn't get treatment and actually get better, you are entirely right to keep him as far from you and your family as possible.

I have read and heard comments from a some who tried to downplay the seriousness of this. It is not acceptable to act that way, and no nonsense about "flying off the handle" or "blowing off steam" justifies that kind of behavior. It is abusive at best, and a serious danger signal as well.

I knew a family, years ago, which included a man who was exactly as you described. The violent threats went on for years. His family always let it go, after it was over. One day we all learned that he had shot and killed family members, including his brother-in-law, during one of those rages. Afterward, the sheriff found him, sitting calmly in a cafe, eating lunch and chatting normally with others in the cafe.

His explanation was, "Well, I was mad at them, then. But I'm over it now, so it's okay."

Don't let anyone tell you that your attitude is the problem. The kind of verbal violence is still a kind of violence. Make no mistake. It is a sign of a serious lack of personal control. Do whatever is necessary to keep that away from your loved ones.

Same thing appears to have recently happened back east; goes gets pissed off, goes and yells and carries on with the people shielding the girlfriend who finally left him...cops are called and he leaves. He comes back in the early morning, kills five adults and one foetus and kidnaps the G/F and her toddler, drives to his dad's house and then later in the morning, the dad drives the killer-son to the sheriff's office where he meekly gives himself up.

People be weird!

I also wouldn't worry about what others in the family think, as your priority is the safety of your immediate family. Unfortunately, it might be safest to just cut them off as collateral damage because they choose a potentially dangerous person over everyone else. I had to cut off my grandma years before she finally died because she chose my mentally unstable uncle over the rest of us, so when she died, her funeral was the only one where I didn't cry at all as I'd done my mourning years earlier. She ended up dying of natural causes due to old age, so that uncle didn't kill her.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 05:49PM by adoylelb.

& I stopped time with my little children at my mom's whenever he was living on their property or in their home- as much as possible. Other people find him charming when they party with him, or have decades of friendship, and they always forgive him. I think he's terrifying. He pulled a knife on my and held it to my neck in front of my husband and very little daughters and mother. The next winter, everyone sat to Christmas dinner. Not an important thing, girls' safety in that family. He ultimately pushed my mom & broke her collar bone, yet got a CNA after his 3rd rehab stint and nursed my father until his death. They adored him, they had hopes for him. He was their favorite son. They loved his macho and his anger and firey strawberry blond hair and how his skin turned red it was so white, he would even sunburn. They loved and hated the effects of their wine they mashed together and fermented in the barrels they would shrink floated in the swimming pool, just like the pressure of unknown forces explode expressed with a firey expletive. My brother reigned unrestrained by any rules known to civil society as my dad was like to auction off stolen farm supplies in the driveway and cackle with glee about holding the substitute teacher by his ankles off the second floor at ____ high school in the 1940s, wasn't restrained on the ranch like the wine held in the oak barrels by the steel bands wrapping around them. Nothing held ___ (my brother) in.

this was the sibling that told my feeance to leave and he would kill him (with a young fighter who was his sidekick.) And whom my father watched physically fight my feeance, on the side of US 101 just north of San Francisco. We were on our way to meet family before marrying in the Oakland temple. Good thing for me my husband was a convert.

I can't control my family. Any of them. uh I avoid them. The church used to be a childhood shield. Later on it would bait them, sort of like a red flag with a bull in a field. Wave the flag "ha! WOW!" family races in different directions from across the field

read that last line:
sort of like waving a red flag with a bull in a field. Wave the flag calling: "Ha! Word of Wisdom!" family races in different directions from across the field

In my opinion your BIL has an undiagnosed mental illness.

Either keep your family away from him or be prepared to exit *immediately* whenever he goes into one of his rages. But do not put up with it!

I've sometimes seen students go into violent rages. They topple furniture and kick in walls. What we do is to get the other children out of the room and safe. Our *first* priority as teachers is the safety of the other children. Then we call for help with the out-of-control child.

Treat your own spouse and children in the same manner. Get them out and get them safe. Ask BIL's wife if she would like for you to call for help. Then go home right away. And consider dropping your relationship with him altogether. You can't fix him. His problems are well beyond that. Only a professional can help him...maybe.

Children are deeply traumatized by witnessing violence. They don't know how to process it. Please ensure that your children do not have to regularly witness an out-of-control adult.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 07:15PM by summer.

"Children are deeply traumatized by witnessing violence. They don't know how to process it. Please ensure that your children do not have to regularly witness an out-of-control adult."

As is so often the case, summer's advice is excellent. Please don't let this happen around your children. It can do damage that will stay with them for the rest of their lives, even if the man never acts on his threats. If your wife does not understand this, let me know. I'll spell it out for her.

I have a TBM nephew-in-law that's sorta like that; he's a boring professor most of the time, but when when he flips out it's bizarre.

Tonytoni, I'll assume the family whom you want protect includes your offspring. I won't assume which parent you are, because it doesn't matter.

How your SIL and BIL behave is up to them; you have no control over that. Your home, on the other hand, is not under their control, and if you accept your SIL "blowing off" your "he is not welcome," you will have ceded control of your home to her - and him.

The most relevant reason to enforce your boundaries is distance. IF he enters a "murderous rage," you want you and yours to be non-entities to him, nowhere near his thoughts. No recent inadvertent slight from your spouse or youngsters, nothing that he could take "wrong." It sounds as if you could use the wrong mustard and he might fly off the handle.

"Violent people are not welcome here. Period." Threats of arson and death are not to be taken lightly, and I doubt that you have evidence one way or the other of any past acts of violence. You don't know, and BIL swearing on a stack of bibles that he's never hurt anyone or burned down a building is not evidence. The "whole family" really can not "know" any more than you do. So far, all he knows is that you're willing to accept the threats.

Make it clear that you are not willing. Keep him away from your home, your spouse and your children. They could disagree with him that it feels too warm outside today and he might feel devalued or feel his teeny-weeny ego threatened.

If your spouse becomes petulant about not having sis in your home, remind spouse that #1 is spouse and offspring, and that you will not tolerate, monitor, or give "one last chance" to BIL. BIL has violated trust, and it's O.V.E.R.

Spouse might be upset, but is probably too close to sis to see BIL objectively. Sis thinks it's "okay," so it probably will be "okay." No. This one is on you, because you are the one who can see them all clearly.

Of course this will isolate your SIL even further, but your first priority is your family, safe in their own home.

Bear in mind, you can't use it indoors--the premises will require a professional cleaning and fumigation. You're likely to hit/affect people other than your target.

If it's not legally available, look into dog spray at a sporting goods store. Some runners and bikers carry it. Years ago, I was a letter carrier and I stopped an attacking doberman with a can of "Halt!" (brand) dog spray.

Another idea: consider family get-togethers in a public place, such as a restaurant or park. That gives you witnesses other than family, and an option to safely retreat. Last thought: tell his family, very clearly, that you will not tolerate his outburst. If he loses control, you will leave immediately, leaving presents and food unattended if necessary, and without saying good-bye. Having stipulated this ultimatum, you MUST act on it if necessary. However difficult or embarrassing the situation, you must follow through.

Also have several of those nylon zip ties--the biggest size--in a convenient place in case he needs to be restrained.

That sounds like a neat idea, but it really is not wise.

1) A person with such anger can be dangerous. One slang term is "EDP" for "Emotionally Disturbed Person," and they can have strength that far exceeds their ordinary state, and may also be impervious to pain.

2) You're taking a person "into custody," depriving him (irrational as he may be) of his freedom. Unless you're a sworn officer with authority in that jurisdiction, you're exposing yourself to a law suit or prosecution for false imprisonment.

3) If he is hurt, he can probably sue for damages and injuries.

That's why I said, meet in a public place so you can effectively retreat. If he pursues, you have a right to defend yourself, but when the threat/assault has either ceased or been neutralized, you MUST discontinue belligerent/physical acts.

It's best to leave the matter to first responders, who would be law enforcement (1st) and EMTs (2nd). If Mr. Anger (Mis)Management were to act out violently, somebody in a public place would probably whip out a cell phone fast and start videoing it. Pepper spray is legal in an increasing number of states--be sure to check.

Leave it to the pros. If you're very progressive, call in your local Community Organizer as well, in case the cops don't do it just the way you think they should have. Then you file complaints and get one or two fired, seize their pension and their homes, and pillory them in the media.

Something I hadn't thought about, but thought about this thread immediately upon seeing this video where Derrick Dearman speaks to the media during his perp walk.

Drugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9j0JO7xd1Y

He's "very sorry" he did what he did.

Just saying.

Drugs. I recall a friends' husband, radiologist, high priest - always missing pain meds after having them over to eat. It happens even in the church, active members. She thought he was manic depressive, might have been, but drugs flip it up a switch.

drugs. both my parents utilized drugs, my dad used pills in Korea, and driving truck. my mom's drug of choice was alcohol. my little brother utilized them all. oh God people love each other, they understood each other's flaws- so so fast to forgive.

I appreciate something someone wrote in this thread when they said, by accepting them back in your house you are telling them you accept their threat.

The most important thing is not to live intimidated to let them in your house- to drive to their house- to keeping them in every meal or family gathering. Because they learn they own you as a __ (sister brother in law mother whatever) and you accept their threats.

Renters who complained about my youngest brother kept dying of panic attacks, heart attacks, air way disorder- young, in their forties. My father kept phoning he needed another renter now, he'd stand in the driveway holding their hands heard their last words waiting for the ambulance to come.
Now were they using drugs and sharing bad stuff (They were his friends) or what? All I know is do not threaten him back,
and avoid him.

Do not accept his threats- (by participating in life with him)

someone taught me to "disengage" There might be a slide show or link someone can teach disengagement communication skill choices, if you don't know how or when or what this means.

You could leave as soon as it starts.

If he is doing it around children, you ought to be making a child abuse hotline report for those children no matter the family fallout: it is abuse and it takes a toll.

If I were in your place, I would write an open letter to him cc'd to all other family members telling him that it is abusive and whether it is a medical issue or just a chosen behavior doing it is abusive. Perhaps more restful sleep or daily heavy exercise or eliminating red and yellow food dye from his diet might help. But whatever it takes he needs to walk away from everyone when he feels himself getting upset (and learn new techniques for controlling himself), because the next time you are there, you are going to record it and report him for child abuse, so he will finally get the help he needs.

I would tell him it isn't a matter of forgiving him. It is a matter of protecting those around him from behavior that is traumatizing and can have severe long term impact on the brains of children and adults he is supposed to love.