"WASHINGTON—According to an alarming new report published Monday, roughly half the population of Heaven is composed of total assholes who begged for God’s forgiveness at the last moment before dying. “Our data show that 50 percent of the inhabitants of the Heavenly Kingdom were total pricks and sleazebags on Earth who waited until their very final breath to plead with God for mercy,” said report co-author Janet Ryder, adding that a survey of celestial records confirmed that one of every two residents of the eternal paradise willfully lived sinful existences and shamelessly committed immoral acts before seeking clemency in the closing seconds of their lives. “What we found particularly interesting is that those who truly committed themselves to God by leading lives of virtue and doing good works are actually outnumbered by hate-filled scoundrels, petty criminals, and murderers who humbled themselves before the Lord and turned from their wicked ways at the last possible moment to con their way into Heaven.” The report also confirmed that 28 percent of the inhabitants of Hell had only sinned once or twice but never had an opportunity to repent."




http://www.theonion.com/article/report-50-heavens-population-just-assholes-who-beg-54072

I found it funny, but I'm not sure the heaven believers will :)

One of the parables in the bible is about men who labored all day being paid the same as those who started work late in the day. When those who started work early in the day complained about this, they were simply reminded that their own agreement had been honored (in other words "that's none of your business"). I never understood this. It's like eternal socialism. Why even bother striving to be a better person if you can get an equal reward by asking for forgiveness on your deathbed instead?

(quote)
One of the parables in the bible is about men who labored all day being paid the same as those who started work late in the day. When those who started work early in the day complained about this, they were simply reminded that their own agreement had been honored (in other words "that's none of your business"). I never understood this. It's like eternal socialism. Why even bother striving to be a better person if you can get an equal reward by asking for forgiveness on your deathbed instead?
(end quote)

Yes, both the life-long believer and the last-minute believer will go to heaven with its eternal glories and happiness, but I think the Bible says that the life-long believer will get a greater glory and deeper joys than the last-minute believer in heaven, but nobody will be jealous because even the lowest glory is still eternally wonderful beyond earthly imagination. Happiness and joy is still happiness and joy, no matter what.

kak75 aka kak57 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but I think the
> Bible says that the life-long believer will get a
> greater glory and deeper joys than the last-minute
> believer in heaven...

Where does it say that?

Think about the original article for a moment; what it (rightly) points out is that the typical christian belief would result in a "heaven" full of awful people who accepted magic jeezus at the last minute, while hell will be full of kind, honest, good people who either didn't know about or care about the magic jeezus story. Ironic, yes?

Yep. Have you ever visited a prison? Our prisons are full of murderers and rapists that are born-again Christians. They all know they've been saved (not WILL BE saved), no matter what they've done, because they accepted Jesus...but those that don't believe, though they may spend their whole lives serving others, are going straight to hell.

This article talks about degrees of rewards in heaven, quoting Bible verses for support. Rewards are separate from salvation itself, which everyone in heaven has.

http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/are-there-different-degrees-of-reward-in-heaven/

I read a book about the English Reformation where they burned people at the stake. A description of the suffering of one of them, Robert Barnes, was horrific, and yet he did not recant. I would think he got his reward in heaven for enduring to the end.

https://smile.amazon.com/Robert-Barnes-English-Lutheran-William-Dallmann-ebook/dp/B007OWNEYG/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1476112352&sr=1-1&keywords=robert+barnes

http://www.born-again-christian.info/foxes.book.of.martyrs/why.martyrs.burned.htm

God would rather have everyone to be saved than be lost.

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Romans 10:9-11 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (11) As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

kak75 aka kak57 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This article talks about degrees of rewards in
> heaven, quoting Bible verses for support. Rewards
> are separate from salvation itself, which everyone
> in heaven has.

Some awfully enthusiastic cherry-picking and rationalization in that article, trying to justify a pre-existing viewpoint. Not that surprising, in that you can pretty much "make" the bible say anything you want it to.

What I found amusing, though, is that while making this enthusiastic argument clearly intended to prove the author is "right," he admits that not all christians (and yes, only certain kinds of christian sects that are "orthodox" by his standards are "christians") agree with his conclusion.

No wonder they demand you just have "faith." :)

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the parables in the bible is about men who
> labored all day being paid the same as those who
> started work late in the day. When those who
> started work early in the day complained about
> this, they were simply reminded that their own
> agreement had been honored (in other words "that's
> none of your business"). I never understood this.
> It's like eternal socialism. Why even bother
> striving to be a better person if you can get an
> equal reward by asking for forgiveness on your
> deathbed instead?

There is no guarantee that you will have a chance to repent on your deathbed or to even be able to. That is why the Bible says now is the time, don't wait!

kak75 aka kak57 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no guarantee that you will have a chance
> to repent on your deathbed or to even be able to.
> That is why the Bible says now is the time, don't
> wait!

There's also no guarantee there's any "heaven" at all, or any need to repent of anything. In fact, "heaven" is incredibly implausible and unlikely.

That is why paying attention to what the bible says is rather silly. :)

Well you could turn that around and say, if a guy has been a thief, or whatever, all his life what is the point of reforming at a given point in his life? How many years of good behavior are required to make up for bad in that case?

Arguments against a plan of asking for deathbed grace are 1) that you may die suddenly with no chance of reforming, 2) asking for grace would not been sincere if that was planned all along.

But within Christianity and all it's sects, many people believe you can go ahead and sin and basically not try to reform or be a good person, because you're forgiven the second you mess up. So heaven would be full of jerks using a loophole and not actually being good people, and hell would be full of moral people who naturally came short of God's level of perfection.

That is not an approved belief within any kind of Christianity that I am aware of. The Christian gospel teaches that an indi vidual is saved by grace through faith alone and not by works. That does not mean that works, good deeds, are unimportant but they are evidence of the changed and saved life style and not the means to achieve it. A trite phrase perhaps but Christian belief is that believers are saved to good works, not by them

That's what I would believe, too, but I know many Christians who do whatever they want and when you point it out they say, "I'm forgiven." I hear a lot of irresponsibility justified this way!

Works are the demonstration of faith. Not wanting to sound judgmental but I think you would have a legitimate reason to question the faith of such people.

Here Kentish, this advertisement shows what I mean perfectly, especially if you read through the many comments!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLzYw6ULYw

This is why we have to talk with the bishop to get our temple recommends: we can practice lying to an authority figure, which prepares us for lying after we die to get into Heaven.

"And you can believe me, because I never lie, and I'm always right." -- "Don't Crush That Dwarf; Hand Me The Pliers," The Firesign Theater

I was a fan of Mosiah, and his pronouncement that death bed repentance doesn't work, because the 'character' you develop throughout your life is the 'character' that will be manifest in heaven.

It's the reason missionaries are needed for Spirit Prison, and it's logical (as much as religion can be logical to a soft-core atheist)... Or else every soul that passed over after having denied mormonism would immediately say "oops!" and sign up for saving.

Even the mormon cult (remembering from my mission) teaches non-members repentance in six steps, two of which are feeling sorrow and making restitution. But they don't teach that to the members. There are secret loopholes, any of which let you off the hook, scott free. These are "saved by grace... after all we can do" (wink-wink, well, I guess I've done all I can do), and "restitution where possible" (wink-wink, I guess restitution isn't possible). Then they keep on doing what they did and expect some stupid secret handshakes to get them in to heaven. Those mormons who make it in to heaven for real will do so in spite of their religion, not because of their religion.

Crap, just crap! This means that my Uncle Winkle will be there. Gawd knows he shouldn't be, but he always told me he would repent just before he died.