I left TSCC 10 years ago after finding out about the pedophile prophet - even Joseph Smith. My husband and kids left too. It has been very difficult for my TBM parents.

Yesterday I was speaking to my mother, who is a temple worker, RM, former RS president, etc. You get the pic. I have a 7 year old daughter. I had the following conversation with my very retired mother, who rarely spends any time with her grand-daughter because she is always involved with church activities:

Mom: I can't spend time with my grand-daughter because you won't let her come to church on Sunday. She would have so much fun. There are other children her age. She would learn about Jesus, good values, and just have a wonderful time.

Me: Uh, I don't understand what you are saying. There are 7 days in the week. Mormon church is on Sunday morning for 3+ hours. You could spend time with her on the other six days, it doesn't have to be during church.

Mom: Well, I usually have the grand-kids spend Saturday night with me, and then I take them to church, but you think my church is a cult now, and you won't let me bring her to church where she would have so much fun.

Me: Well first of all, going to church doesn't equate with spending time with you. Sitting on a bench for 1 1/2 hours, going to primary and sunday school isn't spending time with you. Second, under no circumstances is she allowed to go to a church whose founder is a pedophile.

Mom: That's exactly why I don't spend time with my grand-daughter, because of your attitude.


Unbelievable!!!

Wow. That is tragic.

There you have it. It's all about the family . . .that participated in cult activities. Otherwise they're cut off.

Quality guilt and manipulation from family members!

Seems normal for Mormon family members. Yet unbelievable to everybody else outside the silly church.

It's sad. But worse, it's heavy pressure to gain access to the daughter for the purpose of indoctrinating and converting.

The first weapon in their arsenal is trying to turn the table on you. Your candid response is impressive. I do believe that is hard to do with a parent.


This is not what family if supposed to be. This is not how any of this is supposed to work. Very sad that your mother can't love your daughter for who she is.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's sad. But worse, it's heavy pressure to gain
> access to the daughter for the purpose of
> indoctrinating and converting.

That.

She'd have so much fun, being taught with the other kids her age to praise a con man who slept with 14 year-olds and other men's wives!

Until your mom can deal with your daughter on your terms, it's probably better that she doesn't get to spend that much time with her. Sad, but better.

This is what makes me sad----FAMILY should come first and it does not. You are doing the right thing. I can not believe the people that allow themselves to follow and believe in something that is so clearly hurtful, harmful and.......uggg. Stay strong. You are heroic for getting out 10 years ago. Best gift you could ever give your self and your family.

Bet she wears a WWJD item. Yet it's actually meaningless to her.

It's not family's forever... it's family's for conformity.

I have experienced the same type of mentality. I think they don't even realize what they are doing because they can't separate themselves from the church. I think the older they get the more they see their role as the pinnacle of influence over their families.

My parents don't see much value in life outside the church. When my mother was teaching seminary, she would brag about attending all the church kids events to show love and support (read influence). She would occasionally show up for a track meet or game that my kids were in when it was convenient. It was usually when they had a church meeting in our town on a Saturday and would show up in church clothes for a bit before or after their meeting.

This support just slowly tapered off and they don't even ask or attend any of my kids events anymore. I think they see that they cannot influence them into the church so it is just wasted time. They could be supporting other grand kids and ward kids that may go on a mission.

Outside the church they just don't know how to function or find value in wasting a day with a grandchild that does not believe in God.

I finally just realized it is probably better if they don't hang out with them anyway. They are batshi* crazy. Your children will only be subjected to the manipulation techniques, guilt and conditional love they they have perfected.

Good for you for standing strong.

If she brings it up again, repeat and add:

"I'm sorry that you think spending time with your grandchild means you need to spend that time indoctrinating her, rather than enjoying time together as a family. She's a human being, not a checkbox for your religious manipulation and conversion.

By the way - that behavior is exactly why people outside of the church think it's a cult."

+100

baptismal age approacheth - that's why your mother is pushing the 'friends her own age' theme. She really wants to introduce your daughter to peer pressure. Just remind them that jesus didn't get baptised til he was 30 and it is supposedly 'his' church, after all.

You should not allow your mother unsupervised access with your children as you know she will be unable to go against her brainwashing and so will begin indoctrinating/brainwashing your children. Stay strong - your mother cannot really be a mother to you, nor grandmother to your children; her relationships are always defined by her faith. None of this is your fault, but in her mind you are the reason for her failure as a TBM mother and grandmother. If she is anything like my mother she will revert to childishness when backed into a corner or not getting her way. This, again, is not your fault, although she will try to make you think it is.

TSCC has a lot to answer for.

I agree about not allowing unsupervised visits. I would not feel comfortable if someone was trying to use whatever tactics they could to get my child into this church.

My ex's parents were 2 of the most selfish people I've ever met in my life. They could never remember if we had 3 or 2, if they were boys or girls. They were boy/girl twins. The only twins on both sides of the family for generations.

They got one birthday card for the two of them with $2 in it once in their lives. Their grandparents didn't die until they were in their 20s.

They missed out.

Wow. I was tepidly thinking of suggesting that you use the "cult" word, but that horse has left the barn. I imagine the worst thing thing a cult member can hear is that they *are* in a cult; your mother probably thinks that JS is the only thing you don't like about the church, but she has drunk enough Kool-aid to not realize that almost *everything* about the church, except the basic belief in Jesus, is a made up mish-mash of bible fan fiction. Imagine your mother's fear: she has invested 100% of her life in a lie, but she can't see that.

There are certainly Jewish, JW, Scientologist, Muslim and Catholic families going through the same thing: their identity, social life, and family is the religion, not themselves and their own flesh & blood.

It kind of seems that she wants to use your daughter to look good in front the church by being seen bringing in her grandchildren, a grandmother doing her duty, etc.
To me, it just seems sad and creepy , a grandmother treating her grandchildren like that.
Of course, she thinks she's sitting good example, when in reality, it's the opposite

I'm not spending time with my granddaughter because you are not Mormon.

Sickening.

It's these same people who support Mormon missionaries going out all over the world to get "someone's" grandchild/family member to convert to Mormonism. And these people are supposed to think it's so wonderful when they lose said family member to Mormonism.

I have such disgust and disdain for this organization it's a wonder we visit
TBM family at all.

none with their great grandkids. Long ago we realized this was a blessing and not something to complain about.

Be thankful.

Oh boy. Passive aggressive guilt trip by mom! She is not doing anything to cultivate a relationship with you or her grand daughter.
This is the kid of attitude that you don't want your daughter subjected to.
Probably a "Good Thing" your daughter is not spending time with your mom as she seems to be bound and determined to undermine you, and you certainly do not need that. This is the kind of grand parent that can turn a grand child against their own parents.

Time to change the subject when mom starts in on trying to sell Guilt Tickets for some trip you refuse to take.

It is postings like this that remind me how messed up this cult is. I cannot begin to imagine. I am so sorry but glad you are family first! Hugs!!!!!

I would offer her alternatives -- perhaps an overnight on a Friday night, or grandma can come for an overnight visit at your house. It may or may not solve the problem, but it's worth a try.

They are completely oblivious to their awful behavior.

I'm pleased that your daughter has a strong and loving mother. I'm puzzled as to why you think that your mother would have a beneficial relationship with your daughter.

I'm also miffed enough that I would never again invite grandma into my child's life, unless she left the cult. I would go so far as to tell granny, should she ask, that grandkid has no interest in pedophile worshippers, and that's why she can't have a relationship with her.

The nerve! Your daughter dodges a bullet by having you as a mom.

I would not pine for your mother in front of, or bring her up to your daughter, but answer her questions honestly, telling her that your mother is part of a cult, and that it is unhealthy. Let your daughter know she can ask you anything, and you will be as honest as possible. If your mom then tries to feed her bs fairy tales, your daughter will be able to tell the difference.

That's the problem. Your attitude doesn't make Joe a pedophile. That's what he did long before you were born.

This is actually a very narcissistic response and you handled it great. You clarified that YOU are not standing in the way of a relationship. You are putting your foot down to religious indoctrination disguised as "family time".

Deep down, it is like your Mom is saying "You are making ME look bad in FRONT of the church that I can't bring my own grand daughter due to my heathen child's attitude."

Her response is childish. Ignore and stick to your guns.

RMM