For me the "new" Jesus is the same old Jesus.

He's everywhere the homeless, the orphans, the sick and infirm, and the widows are.

He epitomizes suffering, human depridation, and everything that is wrong with humanity - to give hope and a promise of something better - by helping to inspire and bring out the best in us as people ... to aspire to higher things than this world can offer.

By not conforming to the world as Jesus taught, we can lift ourselves up and in so doing, hopefully those around us.

So many times in history the legend exceeds the reality of the man. Buddha, Ghandi, Jesus, and the list goes on. The reality of their lives and the negatives get lost somewhere in the ether and what emerges is an idea of perfection as the ultimate hallmark of their existence promoted by their followers.

When most people hear the word Jesus they don't envision the whole picture. They just cherry pick the image that they prefer.

When the word Jesus nowadays seems to have two purposes. One is as a representation of all that is ideal and good, and the other is as a weapon used by those wishing to promote their own brand of "good" which suits their purposes and is rarely good at all.

A well dressed executive walks down a city sidewalk.

He encounters a homeless man begging for food.

In the cosmic realm of things......

Is the executive here on earth to teach the homeless man how to clean up, get a job, and live a productive life in society?

Or is the homeless man here on earth to teach the executive how to practice love and compassion?

I like your posit.

Perhaps they could both learn from each other? Perhaps no man is the master. The great teacher turns out to be a principle--Reciprocity: Born with the dawn of man and still informing all that is good today.

I don't recall where I heard that, but it struck me very hard.

I had a best friend growing up and we stayed close friends through our adult years.

He struggled with drugs and alcohol. I got a degree and became an Engineer.

He died about 10 years ago from hard living at age 45. About 2 years before he died, and the last time we saw each other, he asked me for help and I did what I could. I asked him to clean up and he did what he could.

I guess that's all we could do? But I wish we could have done more.

Your story is inspiring. It doesn't always have to be the grand gesture. Little things really do mean a lot.

I think they're both there because either one could become the other at any time.

The Jesus of the Bible did not live in a democracy, nor were there very many basic human rights. So his teachings seemed to be more about people helping other people, one on one. I think in today's society we can do more. We can change the way people are treated on a broader scale, and we can provide care for the sick and afflicted at a higher level, and work toward demanding fair treatment of all people.

Yes! We are greater than Jesus!

Only Joseph Smith was greater than Jesus. He said so.

Ha! Well I wouldn't put it quite like that ;-), but I'm certain that if we lived in the times of Jesus we would be very different people from what we are now, (certainly much less empowered to effect change unless we were in the ruling class) as Jesus would be very different if he lived in our country and in our time.

So it's not US so much as the time/place we live.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 12:56PM by seekyr.

Excommunicant Paul Toscano said about Jesus: "If He wasn't God, He should have been."

Which Jesus though?

One more delusional witness of the spirit without a single tangible piece of evidence to back it up.

Evidence of tangibility is tangible evidence!

Jesus is anything anybody wants him to be. Imaginary "inspirational" figures are like that.
So for those who believe in the "good" in humans, Jesus represents the good. For those who believe in fire & brimstone, Jesus represents judgment. For Filipinos & Mexicans, Jesus is brown-skinned; for US evangelicals and mormons, Jesus is white and delightsome.

For me...Jesus doesn't matter. Whether there actually was such a guy or not. What little is useful in the bible stories about him isn't original, and what little is original isn't useful.

I agree with you, hie, that people see different things. To me, if only as a positive symbol, there is value there.

hie: "What little is useful in the bible stories about him isn't original, and what little is original isn't useful."

I was watching a program last night about women through the ages. I was only half paying attention and then fell asleep early so missed a lot. I have only a beginner's knowledge about ancient history (mostly what I learned in grade school and can dimly remember) but apparently women in the beginning (whatever that was) were "equal" in power to men, holding property, being educated, being treated as an individual (at least, women in the cradle of civilization). Only later did men take all the power and women became chattel, ending up with no rights even over their own bodies. At some point it was enshrined that if a woman spoke out of turn (as determined by men) she should have "all her teeth broken by a brick". EYOW. That image really got to me. And I bet it happened a lot as some men seemed to be very touchy.

But the part that woke me up a bit was when the narrator spoke of Hammurabi's Code of "an eye for an eye". What? I thought that came from the Bible! Maybe I used to know it was from old Ham and forgot. Or maybe I've got my time periods mixed up (I'm hopeless on dates or with imagining the span of human history - so many years of it!).

The message I have received (via Western religion) is that it is no longer supposed to be eyes for eyes but rather love conquers all. Or something like that. So far, there is a conquerer but it ain't too loving.

So, I'm just acknowledging your point that originality is often hard to come by.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 06:51PM by Nightingale.

Don't worry, I won't break your teeth for speaking :)

When I heard that, I first cringed to think of the poor women, the pain, the disability, the outrage. Next, I visualized stomping on the mens' heads for their violent behaviour.

Oh wait. So now I have murderous impulses as well. I'm only as "human" as those Hammurabi soldiers. What a disappointment.

But seriously. I feel for all the women, suffering injuries inflicted by men who believed or were taught such vileness and of course, it proceeds apace. And it's not only from religion. It is very much a part of the human condition. Seems as if we started out 'civilized' and went downhill from there. Only half kidding, I'd say that comes down on the side of the first 'perfect' humans (equal, educated) passing on 'imperfection'. At times we have very much seemed to be going backwards. As a naive kid I expected that as we learned more and more the human race would move forward into brilliance.

So. We're a little ways off still.

Good to know that most of us can still talk about it all without too many dental incidents.

Thoughtful post, Amyjo.

I try to see Jesus in others. I live in a poor part of the Andes, and I see Jesus often. Today on the bus, for example: a young man cradling his young daughter, protecting her as the bus lurched through traffic. My sister-in-law who lives upstairs, and who never fails to pitch in and wash and dry dishes after a family meal. My sister back in California, who delivers hot meals three times a week to people living with cancer and AIDS (despite her own lung cancer). My client, who takes a few minutes to email me a nice note thanking me for my work.

And of course my wife. There aren't enough pixels in the internet to describe all the ways in which she resembles Jesus Christ.

I find that, by being cognizant of the "Jesus Christ" part of others, a couple of good things happen. First, I cut people a lot more slack. Second, I'm reminded to try to emulate Jesus myself. (I fail more often than not but surely the reminder is helpful.)

Thanks for sharing.

That was beautiful and an insightful way of putting it.

:)

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me the "new" Jesus is the same old Jesus.
>
> He's everywhere the homeless, the orphans, the
> sick and infirm, and the widows are.
>
> He epitomizes suffering, human depridation, and
> everything that is wrong with humanity - to give
> hope and a promise of something better - by
> helping to inspire and bring out the best in us as
> people ... to aspire to higher things than this
> world can offer.
>
> By not conforming to the world as Jesus taught, we
> can lift ourselves up and in so doing, hopefully
> those around us.

Why do you need to Jesus in the obvious suffering in front of you? A starving person is a starving person.

It's what he represents and how he lived his life that is an example of true charity.

As role models go, he was all that and more. He was a teacher, who walked the walk.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's what he represents and how he lived his life
> that is an example of true charity.

I would consider gbl's wife an example of "true charity." I wouldn't consider bible jesus such a thing. Bible jesus never gave everything he owned to someone in need. Bible jesus never dedicated days and days of his time, despite being desperately sick himself, to give meals to the poor. Bible jesus magically healed a very few people, when with his supposed "power" he could have healed the entire world -- the "miracles" seem as much for show (to "prove" he was the messiah) as for empathy for the suffering of other human beings.
Frankly, considering gbl's wife against the jesus in the bible stories, gbl's wife wins hands-down. There's no comparison.

GBL's wife is a TBM who lives her religion.

She might still be the same person were she to ditch Mormonism. But for true bible believing Christians, living charitably is their mantra. She epitomizes the example Jesus taught.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She
> epitomizes the example Jesus taught.

But didn't DO.

Sorry to burst you Good Guy Jesus fantasy but he was also the guy according to the story who said if you don't belive him the you will burn in hell forever .Not exactly my idea of a superhero .Eternal tortue for simple non belief .That is neither moral,just or merciful.

That's how Christianity perverted his word. I don't believe he believed that way, or taught that.

It isn't remotely Jewish in thought or wisdom.

Peeling back the pages of the cult of Mormonism made it then mandatory for me to also peel back the pages of the story of Jesus. An anthropology college class had already taught me that the Jesus I had learned about in church was one of "many" Jesus figures. Jesus/Revolutionary figures, along with the one I knew, were all promoting their individual plans as a way for people to find better lives in the Roman dominated world they struggled to live in.

I went on then to discover so much revealing information, and at the end of the road, Jesus represented to me a person, whether mystical or a real person, others chose to follow because he did point their eyes in a different direction, a direction they thought would bring better tomorrows and life after death. Through the ages, the myth has grown and taken many twists, turns, and jumps, just as we can see the Joseph Smith myth, in its shorter life, doing.

Followers of the Jesus Myth have brought about good on the earth, but I believe this is a result of people being individually moral and needing to work together to survive rather than it being a result of being a follower of Jesus. However, the bigotry, jealousy, greed, homophobia, sexism, death, etc.etc. which is created by the Jesus Myth Religions reaches wide and deep in my opinion.

So, for me, Jesus represents a very complex Myth which has two heads and, therefore, needs to be given the dissection and thought it deserves, and today, not tomorrow.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 07:51PM by presleynfactsrock.

As soon as one person takes a stand on his/her interpretation of what it means to be a follower of Jesus, someone with a different interpretation attacks that stand.

And then the atheists expound on the topic!

It borders on divisiveness to announce a stand on any religious issue on a board that is basically about getting the heck out of mormonism. The implication exists that, "Hey, my way is the path to follow..."

EOD: It borders on divisiveness to announce a stand on any religious issue on a board that is basically about getting the heck out of mormonism. The implication exists that, "Hey, my way is the path to follow..."

Discussion of religion can certainly be contentious, as we often see in these parts.

But. "Getting the heck out of mormonism" is complex. There are many common issues, as we see discussed here every day and through the years, but also people have their individual questions, problems, choices, emotions. It's like grief - we can identify with others on a certain level, with common feelings, "stages", regrets, memories, but still each of us has a little parcel of stuff that is unique to ourselves based on our personality, life story, relationship with the loved one who has gone and our way of coping with adversity, etc. That, to me, is the loneliness of grief, that you are experiencing thoughts and feelings that are only yours that can make you feel isolated from anybody else throughout all of eternity.

To one person, the Mormon meetings are boring, JS was a charlatan, they are happy to get out and never look back. It's fun for them to read the posts here and justifiably criticize the church. For another, Mormonism was everything to them and they are the only one who ever left in their entire family. They are a disappointment to their loved ones and the breaches are never healed. It's easy for one to say "get over it", "be happy you're free" but another will say (at least in the midst of their pain) "I wish I never found out". I think this depends a lot on personality and how we deal with life, which is no-fault on any party (i.e., there's no one way to deal with leaving and its aftermath).

Some are only discovering that they need to do some research - for them it may "only" be about getting out of Mormonism at this point. Others are out but grieving, some need to talk over the best ways to try and keep their family together, others - it's unlimited.

For some (and I am one) discussing religion is an immensely important part of the process. Not only in the abstract, such as with arcane musings such as who translated the Bible, but finding out details such as what others think and believe, and why, and then going and doing some reading and research and thinking.

When I first arrived at RfM, I was so fortunate to bump into one poster in particular who with kindness talked to me about a different way of thinking, me still being Christian and him being a happy and avowed atheist. (We went on to become friends in life off the board). Early on, I told him that for me, who had been a Christian since a young age, by my own choice, the concept of God was like a gigantic rock in the road that I couldn't get through. I meant that no matter what information I heard or what anybody at the time was saying here, especially a healthy crop of outspoken and well informed atheists, due to my absolute assurance in what I had chosen to believe and my abiding faith, no matter what, as well as my identification with the basic values of Christianity as I understood them (Love God, Love Your Neighbour pretty much) God was the boulder in the road and I could not even comprehend how to get through the rock to conceptualize even the idea that there is no Creator. (Maybe that doesn't make sense but it's my recollection of how difficult it was to try and see things from an atheist point of view, just could not conceive of "no God").

My good friend said, "Go around the rock" (my visualization had been trying to go *through* it).

Ah. Grasshopper.

So. I went around. Still believe. But at least I am more objective now and can understand "the other side" a bit better.

So, in that one way alone, it has been educational and enlightening for me to wash up at RfM and stay reading quite voraciously for a lot of years now. Along the way, true enough, I have learned about anachronisms in the BoM, the worthlessness of the PoGP, the bait and switch approach of the Mormon Church with its converts, the troublesome missionary program, and a myriad of other church issues that have helped me to process my little Mormon interlude, its beginning, middle and end, and the problems I had there and why. Also instructive was figuring out why I joined and why I left and why it hurt even as much as it did (nothing compared to BICs and their negative experiences over long periods of time).

Besides all that, and more, it is actually allowed here to discuss one's own history and beliefs and activities, even including religious ones. No preaching of course, and sometimes we do differ on what constitutes preaching. But merely stating what we believe in or talking about our own whichever-church activities is part of RfM. Hopefully, that doesn't trigger off a whole lot of PTSD or similar in the readers. Maybe well-crafted subject lines can help to avoid such a result.

Meanwhile, this Christian doesn't mind saying that some of my best friends are atheists! (In fact, quite an alarming number, both here and IRL). :)

And they don't seem to mind my brand of Christianity, which makes me happy. True enough, I manage to curb a rampant impulse to preach at every opportunity. {{jk}}

Re the OP at hand, I don't see that Amyjo is preaching. Not least because she's Jewish. And the post is about Jesus. (Or is my appalling ignorance showing - again)?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 06:32PM by Nightingale.

explain the last line of the OP...

>
> By not conforming to the world as Jesus
> taught, we can lift ourselves up and in
> so doing, hopefully those around us.
>

I did have to read that twice, EOD.

If I can put on my punctuation face for a sec, without trying to be critical of somebody's writing (not allowed here!) I believe there is a comma missing that would help to make the meaning more clear.

So: By not conforming to the world as Jesus
> taught, we can lift ourselves up and in
> so doing, hopefully those around us.

Becomes: By not conforming to the world, as Jesus taught, we can lift ourselves up and in so doing, hopefully those around us.

To me, that means (both ways, but the extra comma helps me) that we should not be like "the world" in which many are selfish but rather we should look beyond ourselves and help others. In so doing, we lift up ourselves and also those around us (those who also help or who follow our example or the ones in need of assistance).

Other than that, EOD, I'm not sure I'm seeing your point with this excerpt. Have I understood you and if not, can you explain it a bit? I would like to understand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 06:39PM by Nightingale.

I agree with you on the need for the comma, but while that means we are on the same tack, it is no guarantee the OP agrees with us.

The sentence is a call to action, based on a religious belief, followed by the stated hope good things will follow personally, and "hopefully those around us."

I suspect that my antithesis arises because I'm not a follower of Jesus. Never met the man, and the rumors regarding his doings go on and on, are often contradictory, and many of them don't make 'real world' sense. I would not voice this normally, but you did ask.

Thanks for expanding on that. I get you now. I'll have to think about it. Maybe you're right that we're just seeing it differently.

Still I ask, and trying to tread lightly here so as not to be offensive (or too ignorant), but would a Jewish person use Jesus as a call to action? That is a new one on me. Or maybe the previous Mormonism got in the mix there. Maybe some of us are indeed a mixture of all our experiences. I used to be a JW (and yes, then clueless enough to join Mormonism) and can see a few ways in which I hung onto that old pattern of thinking (such as identifying more strongly with the Mormon Church, which has many similarities to JW'ism, than with more mainstream churches). Hopefully, I've shaken off most of both now (JW/Mo).

EOD: "I would not voice this normally, but you did ask."

Yes, I asked. I appreciate your response. I never mind hearing what people are thinking. It's a good way to learn!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 06:59PM by Nightingale.

My meaning without the comma, was the intended one.

How you read it or interpret it is different from my own understanding.

"By not conforming to the world as Jesus taught, we can lift ourselves up and in so doing, hopefully those around us."

I meant "as Jesus taught" by his example, he was not a conformist, to the Pharisees and others who ruled, and we are to follow after him if we believe on his word.

His message was not one of anarchy, but following after the Master he came to serve and spread the message of living in the world, but not 'of the world.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 08:30PM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My meaning without the comma, was the intended
> one.
>
> How you read it or interpret it is different from
> my own understanding.

OK, so unfortunately I don't understand it then, even after you have explained it, below.

>
> "By not conforming to the world as Jesus taught,
> we can lift ourselves up and in so doing,
> hopefully those around us."

To me this means that we are "not conforming" to the teachings of Jesus, we can lift ourselves and others up, which surely is the opposite of what a rational meaning would be - that we should NOT conform to the world, which is the message (I learned) Jesus taught, and by so (NOT) doing, we are on the right path. ("Be not of this world").

>
> I meant "as Jesus taught" by his example, he was
> not a conformist, to the Pharisees and others who
> ruled, and we are to follow after him if we
> believe on his word.

Yes, follow him, as all the posters say. To me, it's more the words than the deeds. I actually could relate to what hie said above, in that even as a kid, when I was clueless and too idealistic for my own good, I wondered why Jesus didn't heal everybody (which I would want to do if I had the power). Why only the one blind man? Why feed only 5000? So I can't fault people who continue to ask. And I take it as a sincere objection, because most yearn for a better world and would make it so if they could. Many do the best they can but still appalling numbers suffer mercilessly. It's hard to reconcile.


> His message was not one of anarchy, but following
> after the Master he came to serve and spread the
> message of living in the world, but not 'of the
> world.'

As an aside, I'd say it could actually be anarchy if we don't keep to a societal order of things. So maybe his message *is* anarchy!

I'm not sure we're that far apart Amyjo but the comma thing did confuse me. Even more so now that you say there IS no comma! So, yeah, still I struggle to get that part. But maybe I'm making a mountain out of a little hill...

What I see, and I like, is that you're adopting a more inclusive view of the world around you and incorporating it into your emotional life. You're viewing Jesus through that lens.

I prefer to distance myself a little further from TSCC by avoiding the "follow" word. I'm pretty sure he didn't want to be worshiped. To me, the Christ is more an archetype than an actual person. A kind of vibration that you tune into. If I could say anything to TBMs, it would be stop worshipping the Christ and start being the Christ.

Like you, I believe that sums up his message more succinctly than worshiping him (he did not want to be worshiped or adored, but the Father who sent him be praised,) was to live by his example.

Yet how hard is that? If there was no religion left to compare to his life and example, and all religious icons and idolatry were swept away, what would be left to do but to emulate his Christ like attributes? That in and of itself is GINORMOUS!

I've accepted I'm no saint. Not even close. But do I strive enough to be good? Not really. I just live my life as best I can, one day at a time, to be accountable to myself as I try not to upset the eco-balance for the space I've been allotted.

For me doing good is more than the things I've been able to accomplish. Or the sum total of what makes up a life. I'm more focused on doing right and keeping the focus on making changes I'm capable of rather than the issues that drives a society. Guess you might say I'm a "micro-manager" rather than a "macro-one."

Nightingale, I just read through *this* post, and want to thank you for sharing it so eloquently as you did.

ETA: Noting my post below to Henry Bemis, in short describing my post-Mormon beliefs and how I've (sort of) redefined myself since moving on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2016 07:01AM by Amyjo.

Thank you Amyjo.

I have read all the posts on this thread. It is so interesting and instructive to see where people are coming from. The individual journeys, from and to, are fascinating.

What you appear to have done here is discount the significance of Jesus as a religious figure available for worship. You are talking only about moral values which you seem to associate Jesus merely as a rather transparent and feeble attempt to preserve some sort of Christian faith or identity. But all "Jesus" is here is the source of your inspiration, nothing more. As such, there is nothing at all special about "Jesus" or about being Christian. The moral values associated with Jesus, for what they might be worth, are no different from similar ideas associated with any other source of moral inspiration.

If you want a religious Jesus, then you not only have to assume the reality of the person, but also the reality of some special preemptive role for Jesus in a religious worldview. What you have done, in short, is taken the religion out of Jesus, and frankly, there does not seem to be much left to call "Christian."

Not if he is the son of God.

Since there is to be no preaching or sharing religious dogma or beliefs on this board, there isn't much more I could get into of my beliefs on what Jesus means to me without risking getting my post deleted.

I believe in Jesus based on my own personal witness to his divinity.

Since I'm Jewish by birth it required no conversion on my part to embrace Judaism. Which is a good thing since I haven't been inclined to joining or converting to any other religion since leaving Mormonism.

I retained my Christian beliefs however. At synagogue it isn't expedient or allowed to share my beliefs there either. I've been accepted despite my non-Jewish upbringing and being of mixed faith.

Since Jesus was fully Jewish I identify with him more as a Jew now than I did before, and don't feel like I need to retain the Christian dogma - nor do I believe that his religion was more Christian in scope than it is Jewish. Christianity has perverted much of his gospel IMO. He taught straight from rabbinical teachings and the book of Psalms and Proverbs.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2016 08:55PM by Amyjo.

My Non Christian/Non Religious beliefs:

A man named Joshua (came to my awareness) that claimed the 'Jesus Myth' was partially based on his life. His claim to fame was similar to people that remember 'past life' experiences ------ he remembered some of his 'between life' knowledge' that is maintained in our 'subconscious'. Therefore, he tried to share that information ----- not start a church as God does not desire worship!

Yes, he taught he (like us and all living things) could be termed 'Sons of God' as we came directly from God ---- not a He or She, but an IT that we 'broke/spun' off of. So yes he was 'one of many' ---- 'sons of God'.

No virgin birth, no only son of God, no God, just a man who remembered.

Based on his remembering he knew we could 'progress' by practicing 'be and do good' type principles ---- that was his message.

He remembered he had the power to heal and did but no bringing anyone back from the dead. He could see into the future and do some miracles but didn't get much of what he actually did.

He never tried to start a 'church' and obviously upset at what the 'bible' says about his life and the numerous myths ----- especially stating he was a God and was resurrected. Inferred men wrote things to 'control' people ---- just like governments and religions do today!

No resurrection, he actually taught reincarnation and many lives.

So you're saying some guy named Joshua claims to be the reincarnated Yeshua?

That's like Shirley MacLaine proclaiming she is reincarnated from Cleopatra, among other famous "past lives," or some wacko who portrays herself as the reincarnation of Anne Frank.

Obviously he is either very deluded or knowingly perpetrating a scam. What you say he espouses doesn't mirror what the Jesus of the bible had to say, but a distortion of his word.

I can see how his 'teachings' would align with your non-religious and non-Christian beliefs. But those aren't the teachings of Yeshua.

Although there are Kabbalistic teachings in Jewish thought and wisdom that acknowledge reincarnation is a possibility.

No, I am talking about a 'spirit' experience! If forced I would could call it a 'channel' experience because I didn't have any 'visual' of this 'spirit' just got information.

I don't know of any 'religion' that has all the elements of 'my beliefs', however, based on my experiences there should be 'no religion' that has my beliefs as I am getting that God does not require or expect to be worshiped.

Therefore, no twue church! Not that I think joining a church is wrong for community, social, or other purposes ---- just not 'truth'!

My challenge to anyone 'open' to 'spirit' experiences (certainly people that claim to have had experiences) should also be open to 'asking for truth' from 'spirit' via prayer or meditation.

Why not ask 'people' for 'truth' who definitely should 'know' now?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2016 11:20AM by spiritist.

In my experience, people with "the gift" can get useful information, but it's only as good as their vibration. If their mind is in 3D most of the time, so is the information. They color it to fit their world.

It behooves those among us who rely on the higher realms to function to keep as high a vibration as possible and to keep awakening to new realities. True blossoming is when the petals keep unfolding.

Leaving Mormonism is a great first step.

" but it's only as good as their vibration. If their mind is in 3D most of the time, so is the information. They color it to fit their world."

I totally agree with you!

However, I am getting this type of stuff (because I was somewhat interested and asked) and apparently others are also.

If you have any 'different' information relating to Jesus/bible that infers my 'vibration' is off please let me know so I can evaluate it. Are you saying the Jesus and other bible myths are 'completely true'? Are you saying Jesus was more a 'son of God' than you or I and resurrected? Just what are you saying?

I just read above that you inferred people should 'be the Christ' ---- What the crap does that mean when so many churches talk about their own Christ???? The Mormon Christ certainly doesn't agree with the Catholic Christ in my mind!

Obviously, I didn't get the information using the words I used (my human expressions) but other than that 'colorization' please let me know.

There is no need for me to argue as I can't prove anything but, I would sincerely be interested in finding someone with different information.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2016 04:04PM by spiritist.

N/A.

RB

Hahahaha! You are so wise, Ron! Spot on!

I personally find Jesus talk very irritating and distracting, and I've heard too many couch their hateful beliefs in Jesus talk to trust it. That said, if it floats somebody's boat, they should go for it. I guess I'm just missing the religious DNA. When I was younger and felt empty, I wanted to be deeply religious. As an adult, I find all of it silly and isolating. If it's all about human rights and morality, why not just talk about human rights and morality? Why the need to layer some guy from thousands of years ago, whose Scriptures say you'll suffer eternally if you don't personally believe in him, on top of it? Just literally don't understand that desire, I guess.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2016 02:27PM by woodsmoke.