So I've always been taught that God has a body of flash and bones like us humans only his is prefect and glorified beyond description.

However Jesus said in John 4:24
"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

And those that don't?

"You can find 27 ways to bake bread in the bible...!"
--Judic West, Masterbaker at the Court of St. James

Judic West, Masterbaker


Boyd K. Packer wouldn't have approved of that. :-)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 10:26AM by quatermass2.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 10:31AM by quatermass2.

Since God is a psychological construct, I don't see any point to the controversy.

However, it is notable that the whole LDS theology changed when JS gave his last story of his Vision.

I was taught that the Easter Bunny has a body of chocolate.

That's solid chocolate.

Only apostates believe that the EB's body is hollow chocolate.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> I was taught that the Easter Bunny has a body of
> chocolate.


And whosoever eateth his body shall not die but have everlasting cavities.

"god" is whatever people imagine a thing for which there is no evidence is.

The bible made-up stories are no more an "authority" on what some "god" is than mormons are. However, you're forgetting the bible verses that imply the OT "god" DOES have a body, such as Gen. 32 (there are a lot more). And of course there's "doubting" Thomas, who upon seeing resurrected jesus in the flesh (and blood) finally accepts the resurrection, and calls him "my Lord and God."

When you realize that people *invent* out of thin air what they want "god" to be -- mormons, christians, muslims, and everyone else -- then you can let go of the idea that the self-contradictory bible or the mormon church have any facts to tell you. They don't.

God is an interesting character but a fictional one.

The Jesus outlined in the New Testament was something of a social revolutionary who, in the words of Douglas Adams, "got nailed to a tree for [daring to suggest] how great it would be to be nice to each other for a change".

The Church teaches that Christ and the God of the Old Testament are one and the same person. Yet the God of the old testament is very clearly a sadistic, genocidal, narcissistic, self-obsessed, neurotic sociopath who who either personally committed or allowed others to commit genocides on a scale that would have put Hitler to shame (think of the implications of the OT flood-myth).

Basically, the function of "God" is as a control mechanism, allowing those who preach the concept access to and control over large numbers of people.

That's not exactly a healthy concept.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 10:33AM by quatermass2.

Ah, I see.....the fiction you were taught doesn't agree with the fiction in the book the teaching is supposed to come from.

I faced a similar dilemma in that I was taught that witches wear black pointy hats, but in the original movie "Clash of the Titans" the witches aren't wearing them. Same for the witches in the original movie "Jack the Giant Killer".

The evidence for witches not wearing black pointy hats is compelling indeed, but how do I reconcile that with what I was taught?

I think I remember this movie. Lucifer built a gauntlet that would be powerful enough to hold the infinity stones. He then waged war against the earth but not a physical war, a slow burn war where he would steal our souls when we died. God was a spirit but to fight Lucifer and the infinity gauntlet he took a body. God than literally ripped the infinity stones out of the gauntlet with his bare hands. But since they were so powerful his body was burned up. Then a few weeks later he re-materialized in the cafeteria as a big blue man with a big blue dick. So to wrap up.

Lucifer threatened all of creation with death or to impress death, that one isn't super clear. God took a body to fight Lucifer. Then his body was atomized during the fight. Then he materialized again a few days later as a naked blue man.

Got it?

jacob Wrote:
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> Got it?

Sure. I can't wait for the sequel :)

In all seriousness. I do consider myself to be a Christian. I just can't believe that I believed all that I did for the majority of my life.

Are there any Christians here who can help explain this to me?I want help not ridicule. TSCC did that enough already

I don't think people are trying to ridicule as much as make a point.....You seem to want help sorting out which fictional belief is the true one. Around here, you won't get far with one.

If you want a discussion purely from a christian viewpoint, I suggest finding a christian board where you can have a discussion more to your liking.

In other words......don't go to a Ford dealer looking for a Chevy, then complain to the ford salesman that he isn't helping you with your quest for a Chevy.

good luck.

I thought exmormon.org was an open forum to all. Atheists, Christians, etc. The main point being that you were once Mormon.

Do you know of any groups I could check out?

Google ExMormon to Christian.

Here are some affirmations that may help get across what many are attempting to convey to you.....

"I am ready, willing, and able to take my life to the next level! Today I DO!"

"Every unquestioned, untested belief in your mind is result of someone’s conditioning you. Resolve to think for yourself."

"Until we stop and consciously choose our beliefs, we are simply living someone else’s version of life."

"We are not inadequate by nature. We are inadequate by conditioning. Conditioning can be changed."

"Until I question my beliefs, they are just someone else’s programming. Today I consciously choose my beliefs."

"Whoever is shaping your beliefs, is shaping your destiny.
I shape my beliefs and I shape my destiny!"

"Conditioning is when you believe because others have said it’s so. Empowerment is when you believe based on your experience."

"My experiences drive my beliefs and I consciously choose the beliefs that make sense for me!"

"You can choose to believe or not believe. Either way, you get the life that flows from that decision."

"Believe your world is one way and it is. Believe it is another way and it is."



below is a link to all the quotes that I picked these from.

Perhaps it's time to question the validity, purpose, reasoning, rationality of your beliefs so you can get over the conditioning you've been through regarding god, the bible, religion, etc. Coming from where we have been....life get better when you do that.

https://affirmationspot.me/2011/11/02/belief-affirmations-and-original-quotes/

Wow! Great response. Thank you. :-)

ExMo27 Wrote:
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> In all seriousness. I do consider myself to be a
> Christian. I just can't believe that I believed
> all that I did for the majority of my life.
>
> Are there any Christians here who can help explain
> this to me?I want help not ridicule. TSCC did that
> enough already

As a christian, is it "sinful" for you to read and consider the contradictions in the bible?

By the way, nobody is ridiculing you. Just making some observations that might get you thinking. That's not a bad thing :)

No I don't think it's a sin. I'm aware of many contradiction
some are major others are minor.

I actually think some of the responses are down right hilarious

In all seriousness. If there is a god and if that god possesses the type of nature and power of the Christian god. Than that god doesn't seem likely to have a body similar to the body that you and I have. Simply because one of the attributes of the Christian god is that he is all present or not constrained by time or location. It would be very difficult to exist at all times and in all places and be constrained by a corporeal form.

Hypothetically of course.

The expectation for morality tales to be factual is a recent thing. Much more recent than the Bible. There was never a hobbit named Sam who carried Frodo up the slopes of Mount Doom. But it's a great story. What would it matter if there wasn't actually a Jesus? He has qualities you can aspire to. You can reject other qualities like the occasional destruction of property.

I think Joe wanted to be different just to be different. So he could make the saints feel more special and more knowledgeable. Mormonism is big on knowledge of the Mormoverse, but look at the recent declaration of truth by Mormon scholars. Pure insanity.

Is there an app for locating online communities that exist only to affirm your personal beliefs?

Or an app that allows you to makeover an online community to conform with own personally held beliefs?

I'm not sure what you're getting at

I kinda forget what I was getting at...!

I think, but don't hold me to it, that I was backwards postulating that if you want something you believe in validated, you just have to find the right people.

Or the alternative, find people who don't have a POV on an issue that is important to you and win them over.

See, everybody wants to be the possessor of Truth, which is right up there with yelling loudly and sternly, to prove you possess the Truth.

It's interesting to watch.

The idea of God having a body of flesh and bone is a point that Mormons like to use to prove the church true...We are the only church who thinks this, so the LDS church must be true. And it's also a point that is often brought up when Mormons discuss the First Vision and some of the reasons behind it...Through the First Vision, God taught that he has a body of flesh and bone.

I think Mormons (and possibly other Christians) like to get hung up on this point. Honestly, does the nature of God really matter that much? Whether you believe God is a spirit or has a body changes what exactly? I don't believe it changes much at all. And I don't believe that if there is a God he's going to care all that much if we're wrong on this point.

Good point

Non Christian belief:

God does not have a body and neither will we after we die until or unless we decide to reincarnate again.

As far as bodies ----- why chose human????? This universe of ours has many other choices.

But it really doesn't matter whether God has a body or not it is whether there is a God!

Glad I could settle the confusion! (ha ha)

had a body of "flesh and bone." But then, I had been raised as a Presbyterian, and knew better. . .

OP, I once considered myself to be a "Christian," i.e., believed a version of this:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed#Comparison_between_Creed_of_325_and_Creed_of_381


One can look up the history of the bible, because it has a history just like the BoM has one, and decide which set of beliefs suit your fancy.

The main differences between the bible and BoM, in my view, are age and the amount of blood shed fighting for each. Way back, a mere hundreds of years following the reported life of Christ, rather than thousands of years later, wars were fought to settle the very question you ask.

Religious leaders established governance and power through fear of god(s), and the definition of the "substance of god" were fighting words. If you are truly seeking an answer to your question, you should learn the origin of the various answers of differing sects of Christianity.

None have THE Answer. It's just a matter of deciding which set of men you wish to believe and follow, if any. For some, it is more recent men like Muhammad or Joe Smith (or "non-Christians" like L. Ron Hubbard or Deepak Chopra), while for others, it is more of an older, "Constantine" set.

While seeking to answer your question, it is important to remember that none of these men had any greater "holiness" or "access to god" than you do. No sceptre, chant or golden plate brought them any "nearer to god" than you have ever been.

When I looked into Christianity in a serious and meaningful way, willing to accept wherever the evidence and history took me, the answer became obvious.

I wish the same freedom for you. Some are as fearful of examining Christianity as they were of examining Mormonism.

This is also taught in the Book of Mormon, and in all of the D&C before section 130. It is taught in the Lectures on Faith, and in the Joseph Smith Translation of the bible. Until D&C 121, there was only one god.

Essentially, any mormon scripture created before the Nauvoo period did teach that God was a spirit, that Jesus was a physical manifestation of that spirit, and that the "holy ghost" was the mind and will of God.

That's the great thing about mormons in LDS,Inc. They'll hold up the BoM and the D&C as witnesses to the almighty truth, but if you point these discrepencies out they'll claim that that's what modern revelation is for, and that those who still believe those old christian tales are damned.

If you want to believe the teachings of Joseph Smith, you're going to have to use his personal translation of the Bible. Here is how he rendered that particular verse:

"For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth."

See? No contradiction at all. Remember, when you follow a con man, you've got to go whole hog.

Honestly as a theist(though not an organized one) it is best to look at another board with for religious discussion. That's what I do however here is still probably the best place to vent the frustrations of mormonism. Thats something everyone understands whether they became a different kind of theist or an atheist after leaving, that MORmONism sucks.

lifefromanewview Wrote:
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> Honestly as a theist(though not an organized one)
> it is best to look at another board with for
> religious discussion.

Why? Because some other boards won't challenge beliefs and offer reasonable criticism?

No, not really the OP just seemed to want to have a more agreeable response. I was just trying to help direct him to find it.

Personally I like the mixture of views and the challenge to what I currently believe it makes me reassess and be mindful of what exactly I accept as my beliefs of the world. I believe I worded that poorly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2016 11:52AM by lifefromanewview.