The holidays can be a difficult time of year for some people. I've never been married, or had kids, or my own house with a yard. I never quite reached the American dream, but I see my prosperous tbm relatives hooking up with each other at the inlaws houses where it's so much more fun! The kids have a gay-old-time together. And later tonight it will all get posted to social media with what's called the "facebook phenomenon." A lovely place where we can all compare ourselves to other people, and... feel so blessed, or get depressed, yay!

There's a tradition at this thankful time of year to meet at the most prosperous rich tbm relative for dinner and to go around the table with all the "tbms" and share what we are so greatful for. And of course someone will say something about the church. Anyone ever struggled coming up with and retorting to everyone what they are thankful for?

I've read on the board of how some older people start to feel overlooked by tbms at church, and just sit alone in the back. Anyone ever deal with this feeling that our usefulness is waning in this world? How do you deal with it during the holidays?

Think of how many of those people with the mortgage and car payments and bratty kids secretly envy you. Be grateful for what you don't have. Most of all, be grateful you don't have to live the Mormon charade.

Somehow we ended up in a culture where few people understand that it's not about what you can get, it's about what you can give. You don't need anything to be happy. Least of all a bunch of happy horseshit.

I'm super thankful that this year we had the opportunity to invite about 25 guests. My wife and I have been working together for two days straight, buying food, cooking, serving our guests, and finally cleaning up. We love working together, in the kitchen and out. We throw a lot of big dinner parties; it's a labor of love.

Her two sisters and one brother came with their families, along with three other families, plus our own girls. Lots of laughter, eating, and now dancing (it's almost midnight here).

This is a poor South American barrio; I'm the only gringo around. My wife had never celebrated Thanksgiving until last year--this year she and everybody else were more than ready. Before we started eating I gave a little speech (in my crappy Spanish) thanking them for coming and giving us the opportunity to break bread together. I explained that a tradition with many folks in the U.S. is to ensure that everybody has a place to go on Thanksgiving. The guests loved that. They understand why, for me, Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday.

None of us has a lot of money--many are struggling. Maybe that's why Thanksgiving is so successful, why we feel so spontaneously, honestly thankful.

I loved motherhood and wouldn't have traded it for the world. Still, having raised my brood and now they're on their own and half a world away, I have had to redefine what and who I am. Being a mom took everything I had and then some for these past 30+ years of my life. Before that I was single, independent, and loving it.

TBM relatives I don't relate to much any time of the year. I see them on FB but we really aren't all that close. They are in their own little world.

The morg hasn't done a very good job of valuing its aging population. Not counting the diehards who are temple volunteers and go on missions during their golden years ... the older folks tend to go ignored and forgotten by the younger ones at church. That was my observation before I left the last time.

Has it changed? It's too bad. Seniors have a lifetime of experience and wisdom to add to the discussion, and are usually good role models for the kids.

I've been feeling thankful all day, though have spent the day alone. It was so cold outside I was just glad I didn't need to go anywhere. Tomorrow it's back to the grindstone. Thanksgiving is the one day a year I at least try to pause and give thanks and reflection for the blessings I have, and look to the future while remembering the times shared with family - of my childhood and with my children.

Poopstone, don't believe all of the hype!

I have a feeling that you get it, though. Yes, some people are very happy--non-Mormons, Mormons, single, married, large families, cat-ladies--and I believe that happiness doesn't belong to only one narrow demographic. Oh, the temple-married-multiple-child-white-upper-middle-class people are ACTIVELY PROMOTING THEMSELVES as the picture of happiness! Would you really want to photoshop your face onto one of those matching denim-clad gigantic family photos hanging over Mormon fireplaces--really?

It's a proven fact that Fakebook makes people depressed. No one can measure up to a false image. I was extremely happy, raising my children, and I think they are as near perfect as people can be--but I love them unconditionally, so of course I wouldn't change anything. Even so, while raising them, we suffered through the crisis of having their father completely abandon us, of me having to work very hard to support my children, their broken noses, knees, all those childhood diseases, my painful incurable disease that goes in and out of remission, bla-bla. There are others who have suffered more--even those photoshopped Mormon families on Fakebook suffer, because it is life.

I agree that old people in the Mormon cult are ignored. It's just like the principle of shunning. Shun those who veer off the path--also threaten them--and they will come back to the straight-and-narrow. TBM girls usually won't date a young man who refuses to go on a mission. If a couple is not married in the temple, or if a couple has no children, or only 1 or 2, they get pressure and disapproval from their Mormon family and "friends." Disobedient members are shunned also as an example to the others. So, likewise, old people who go on senior missions or do temple work are invited to speak at sacrament meeting, are fussed-over. Their children and grandchildren praise these seniors at fast and testimony meeting. (Has anyone ever said, "I'm so grateful for my grandmother who cooks dinners and does laundry.") My 75-year-old cousin was mentioned in testimony meeting, because she took her turn at cleaning the church building, when she was sick. Old people are admired for their suffering, and "enduring to the end." No retirement parties for being the ward clerk for 35 years. No appreciation for the piano, organ, and teaching callings from the age of 18 to 50. Not even a "Thank you." Just threats and shunning when you stop.

Senior missions used to be for couples only, but I know of a lot of singles who go, now. Senior missionaries are given the false promise of "blessings" to shower down upon their entire family, if they go on a mission. Instead, the old people pay out a lot of money in rent (to church-owned apartments) and fees for their missions. Some go on several missions, until their money or their health is gone.

It is my opinion that this is elder abuse. The cult lies and gives false promises (to everyone) takes their money, makes them clean the church, manipulates them into going on missions to do more cleaning, cooking, and clerical work. (A widow in our ward was called to England to be the housekeeper for the mission president's home. There are "work missions", and our elderly widower neighbor went and did carpentry work in the tropics, and he almost died.

But before you die, a TBM neighbor couple will come to your door, and coerce you into leaving your estate to BYU. That's what happened to my father. My mother was there to help Dad say "No" to the well-dressed, friendly couple, who finally left two hours later with a fat check to BYU.

Amyjo has a good attitude for the holidays. Remember the fun times, and maybe do some of the things you used to enjoy.

This sounds crazy, but one thing I do is to CELEBRATE being free of the cult. We don't have to go to the ward party, or the first presidency fireside, or over-rehearse for the ward choir, or practice with musical performers, or celebrate JS's birthday. Just being home with my dog and a good book gives me a better time, by far!

My wise grandmother used to say, "When you're sad and lonely, do something nice for someone else." There are even more opportunities for volunteer work at Christmas time. (Real charity work, and not minion's busywork for LDS, Inc.

There are worse things than being lonely.

Thankfully my extended family doesn't "do" Thanksgiving anymore. It was just me and my parents, whom I live with. And while they were thanking their imaginary sky-daddy for the meal and the holiday tonight, I actually felt really grateful that I have such great parents. Yeah, they may be blinded by religion, but they're among a tiny minority of believers who actually care about family more than beliefs. They didn't kick me out, disown me or start snubbing me when I left Mormonism, as I feared they might. Even after years of my struggles with depression, anxiety and a general lack of direction in life, they still haven't abandoned me.

Senior getting called to clean house in England for a mission prez? Coercion to donate the estate to BYU? I wasn't aware of the secret agents/neighbors that come to a persons house trying to get at the money (in such an obvious way). Wow! that takes some real nerve.

All very good advice, It's a luxury to be able to have peace and quiet at home, to have a good book, to be far from the maddening crowd. But at times it can be difficult to turn off the promotion-commercial I've heard all my life about the TBM-American dream.

It's a great observation that there are happy people in all walks of life. That's something that is never taught by the media or church.

Yesterday, in thinking about gratitude, I just felt SO very grateful to have been lucky enough to be the one in my family who was able to see TSCC for what it is and get the hell out. God, there is no way to describe how different my life is now from what it would have been.

Just being able to sit around a Thanksgiving table (no jello and lots of good wine) with amazing people who are fun, intelligent and down to Earth, and have the kinds of conversations we had was something I never would have gotten to experience. One of the gals there is in seminary to be a UU minister and a few weeks ago went to Black Rock with a bunch of other ministers of different faiths. So being Thanksgiving, the conversation got around to the made-up historical narrative about the holiday and other Native American issues and she had such an interesting perspective after that experience.

I would never have known how empty my life was and what I was missing if I were still mormon. I thought back on big TBM family Thanksgivings and the contrast between that and the day I was having and realized if someone said they'd send me back in time and let me re-live one of those, I'd just say, "please god, kill me now."

So, yeah, there is something good about having a day to really make you reflect on gratitude. My life is not hunky dory, I still have all the everyday problems anyone else has. But I would not hesitate to tell ANYONE that the thing I'm the very very very most grateful for in my life is being able to get on the other side of the mormon bubble. Being able to see life from the outside in, instead of vice versa. Because I sure couldn't see real life through the murky confines of that bubble.