This is a photo of an orca leaping out of the water, possibly out of sheer joy that it isn't a Mormon and isn't forced to sit through a three hour block every Sunday, but who knows:

http://i.imgur.com/RmE9GCy.jpg

The island in the background is Orcas Island. It is the largest Island in Washington State's San Juan archipelago. The waters surrounding Orcas island are frequented by so many orcas, that there are three different whale watching tour operators located on the island and several more on other nearby islands.

USA Today gives the following advice to anybody wishing to see these magnificent creatures in their natural environment: "In North America, your best bet is to head to the islands at the northern tip of Washington state near Bellingham and Anacortes, Washington. These small islands, including San Juan Island and Orcas Island, are the orcas’ home base in the States."1

The next time a Mormon apologist tells you the discovery of altars in Yemen at a place called NHM prove that the Book of Mormon is true, show them this picture, and then tell them how illogical they are.

Nahom, according to the Book of Mormon, was the place where Ishmael was buried when Lehi and his family were traveling through the desert after fleeing Jerusalem. Ancient altars were discovered in a place in Yemen called NHM. This is in the same general area where the Book of Mormon says Lehi and his family would have passed through. Hebrew doesn't use vowels when writing, so NHM could have been Niham, Nuhem, or any of many other combinations, but it could actually be Nahom.

Additionally, one, of several possible, semitic root words for Nahom means to comfort or console, and NHM was the location of an ancient burial site, which apologists claim lends credence to the theory that NHM is the Book of Mormon's Nahom.

Many Mormon apologists say this is proof that the Book of Mormon is true. Terryl Givens said that the discovery of the altars "may thus be said to constitute the first actual archaeological evidence for the historicity of the Book of Mormon" and "the most impressive find to date corroborating Book of Mormon historicity."2

In the video produced by FAIR called Journey of Faith several BYU professors commented on Nahom3:

Daniel C. Peterson, Professor of Islamic Studies and Arabic, BYU, “The finding of Nahom strikes me as just a tremendously significant discovery.”

Noel B Reynolds, director of FARMS, BYU, “The gazetteers of Joseph Smith’s day listed no such place.”

Peterson, “What it really is, is a kind of prediction by the Book of Mormon, or something that we ought to find.”

William J Hamblin, Professor of Middle Eastern History, BYU, “Now the chances of finding that exact name from the exact time, in that exact place, by random chance, are just astronomical.”

Peterson, “And to find it in the right location, at the right time, is a really striking bulls eye for the book and there are those who say the book has no archeological substantiation. That’s a spectacular substantiation right there, it seems to me. Something that would have been unexpected. It’s so unlikely that Joseph Smith could have woven into his story on his own.”

Hamblin, “The Book of Mormon has text, has made a complex prediction and modern archeology actually confirms that prediction.”

Peterson, “It’s a direct bulls-eye, as precise as you could wish it to be.”

Seems pretty clear cut. Looks like it's time to repent and go back to church. They found Nahom, right where it's supposed to be. You can't argue with that...or can you? And what the hell does this have to do with orcas, anyways?

You might think that the previously discussed Orcas Island was so named because of all the orcas that live in its surrounding waters. That's what I have always thought and it makes perfect sense, but it's not true.

"Orcas" is the shortened form of "Horcasitas" who was the Viceroy of Mexico who sent an expedition to the Pacific Northwest in 1791. His full name/title was Senor Don Juan Vicente de Guemes Pacheco y Padilla Orcasitees y Aguayo Conde de Revilla Gigedo. Orcas Island was named after him. His name was so long, they also named San Juan Island and Guemes Island after him. He is the "San Juan" in the San Juan Islands.4

Well, if they didn't name Orcas Island after orcas, then the orcas themselves must be named after Orcas Island, which makes sense since they congregate around the island. Or maybe they were named after the Viceroy which would also make sense since he sponsored the expedition. His men discovered these orcas and named them after him. Interesting bit of trivia, except...it didn't happen that way.

Orcas is an ancient Roman name used for the whales, possibly borrowed from ancient Greeks. It was in use for millennia before Orcas Island was named after the Viceroy.5

So Orcas Island, which is well known for its orcas, was named for a Mexican Viceroy, and orcas is an ancient Roman name that had nothing to do with the Viceroy. The only logical conclusion is that the Orcas Religion is the one true religion and we must all immediately bring buckets of raw fish to Orcas Island as tribute to our new Orca Overlords, or, maybe...just maybe...it's a coincidence, a HUGE coincidence.

Maybe, sometimes in a world as big, and old, and as wonderful as ours, things randomly happen and unrelated things can have the appearance of being related when in actuality, they're not.

If the Book of Mormon were true, shouldn't there be multiple Nahoms all attesting to the veracity and historicity of the Book of Mormon? Book of Mormon civilizations and peoples supposedly existed somewhere in the Americas for a period of 2,600 years. Shouldn't there literally be thousands, if not tens of thousands of Nahom-like discoveries?

Instead, out of all of the Middle East, the Arabian Peninsula, South America, and North America, there's just a few old altars in a forgotten corner of Yemen, in a place with a name that could be similar to the Book of Mormon name. This is what some call "the most impressive find to date corroborating Book of Mormon historicity." What a low bar these apologists set for themselves, but then, in their chosen avocation, they really don't have any other choice, do they?

References:

1- http://traveltips.usatoday.com/see-orcas-103296.html

2- http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Geography/Old_World/Nahom_evidence

3- http://www.mormonmatters.org/2010/08/10/religious-archaeology-and-evidence/

4- http://genealogytrails.com/wash/sanjuan/islands.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_de_G%C3%BCemes,_2nd_Count_of_Revillagigedo#Explorations

5- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orca and https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orca

Well done !! .....and Somehow that also proves that the Book of MORmON is true in MORmON minds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BQrl4EZ07Y

As I was writing the post, it entered my mind that some TBMs would find a way to use this to re-enforce their beliefs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2016 04:34PM by farside.

Excellent post, farside, thank you! Your post caught my attention because I grew up playing in the San Juan Islands and along the coast of the Olympic Peninsula, especially in Kalaloch. I have a hobby farm in Vancouver, WA but keep daydreaming of moving to the San Juan Islands someday.

I held the same false assumptions about Orcas Island. Thank you for the history lesson and for pointing out the pitfalls of making assumptions anx jumping to conclusions with limited evidence. The speculation of the meaning of NHM seemed so far fetched to me. When it's critical to maintaining their whole world view, tscc apologists will grasp at any straw no matter how outlandish it is.

I live on the Kitsap Peninsula and I love it up here. Glad you liked the post.

Well done.

Perhaps we could call it the NHM-Ocra Fallacy.

Ooh, I like that!

"Ancient altars were discovered in a place in Yemen called NHM."

This is overstating the case. An ancient altar was discovered
in a place in Yemen with the letters "NHM" on it in the midst of
other letters. It didn't state that it was the name of the
place.

"gilbert and sullivaN HMs pinafore"

LOOK! The letters NHM^^^ It must be a place name.

Wow, the "evidence" the apologists promote is getting weaker and weaker.

Wow, I thought NHM was a huge coincidence, but after reading Steve Benson's post, it's obvious that it's not a coincidence at all.

It's a case of apologists taking little bits and pieces that are unrelated and trying to relate them by any means necessary.

Sort of like forcing a square peg through a round hole, it just doesn't work. But when they think nobody's looking, they shave that square peg down and they work it and re-shape it, and they replace the round hole with a bigger hole that's roundish if you squint the right way and don't think too much about it, and eventually they jam the peg through and declare a miracle for their sleight of hand trickery.

That's exactly what it is. Not a coincidence, not a miracle, not proof of anything. It's merely distraction and trickery and deceit by a group of charlatans trying to protect their con artist hero.

Thank you, Steve Benson!

There is a popular idea about the naming of the Island after the explorer (which has the spelling in regards to the Orcas island as Orcasitees which was one of his 13 names)

AFTER it was discovered, the entire chain in that areawas named after the explorer and was known as Orcas...not just the Island.

Then the Americans named it, and it was known as HULL Island.

It was named Orcas Island AFTER that in 1847 (LONG after the Spanish explorer was extinct and most things with him). It was most likely named after the explorer...why...because there IS NO COINCIDENCE with Orcas island being the best island to see Orcas in the US, at least from what I've read. That's BS. Why...

Because, just like I research things in Mormonism because I don't just simply believe what people told me, I also researched the heck out of this...

What I found, the San Juan Islands (NOT JUST ORCAS Island) are a GREAT place to see Southern Killer Whales during the months of May through October when they are feeding off the Salmon runs. The only coincidence MAY be that there are touring companies on Orcas and Lopez Islands...or maybe NOT so coincidental as they arrived After the island was named and it's makes for GREAT ADVERTISING to say come to Orcas to see Orcas...

However, this is not the ONLY great spot, some would actually contend that the Georgia Strait West of the San Juans is a better spot to see the Orcas, and that the best tours actually come out of Vancouver...shooting down the idea that Orcas Island is even the best spot to grab a touring company out of that area.

Alaska ALSO has salmon runs and is supposedly another GREAT place to see Orcas, especially an area known as Ressurection Bay. It also has touring companies that will take you to see the whales.

Finally, though not as great as the ones listed above, are Monteray bay where the whales ambush young Grey whales and other mammals in the area...as well as Southern California.

So, while the information above may be correct about the naming of the bay...it seems it is misleading about whether it is the best place to spot Orcas or not. In fact, it seems more as a matter of opinion rather than fact.

I think the MORE important thing about this is to simply NOT accept what someone tells you at face value. That's probably the fault one have at me, and perhaps it's that VERY thing that has led many people here.

They stopped simply accepting what people told them, and did their own research to see if what was stated was True or False. It's one reason I'm here, because I don't believe in simply accepting what someone tells me, and when someone tries to tell me something as fact, my natural tendency is to try to do some research and see just how valid that information is.

Perhaps I also have some sort of anti-authority streak in me that also drives me to play the devils advocate at times and find alternate or opposing viewpoints at times when I'm told "facts" or things like that (not all the times, just sometimes, unfortunately, this thread triggered one of those fact finding times from me).

When I'm in that mood, it better be dead on in the facts, or I'm going to doubt the veracity of what they are telling me otherwise.

Regarding your statement: "...it seems it is misleading about whether it is the best place to spot Orcas or not."

I'm not sure if you're talking about me or somebody else, but if you're talking about me, I never said that Orcas Island is the best place to see Orcas, but I certainly did say/imply there are a lot of Orcas around there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2016 03:51AM by farside.

It was in direct response to your original post. You may not have said it in so many words, but your implications in regards to the Island name and our suppositions were misleading. At least how you made it sound when I read it.

In fact, anyone who looked up the history of the Island would know instantly the history behind it, and that you were leading up to a misnomer that was only brought up by you.

It similar to tactics that salespeople do when they suggest something to someone and then pretend that it was that persons idea instead of the salesperson.

For example...

"Many people think that the Tanner's are part of a Satanic cult that kill little babies and eat children for dinner...but the truth is that they never did any of that..."

This is a misleading statement. Most people haven't even thought about the Tanner's, and have never even dreamed of anything like that about them. Hence, that statement has nothing of value or reliability. In essence, it is a straight up lie about the Tanners.

It's sole purpose is to make people think something that wasn't there to begin with.

I would expect many here have been deceived in many ways by people who try a very similar tactic.

Things like

"did you know that Baptist believe Mormons are going to hell..."

Or...

"If you don't believe in a very specific way about the Lord...you are not saved"

Those Types ideas

(for the record, I believe only the LORD can judge, we cannot, and it is HE who decides, not we...on who gets to go to heaven and who does not. I think he has a great more grace than we give him benefit for, and many we may think are not going will be in heaven...and perhaps some who we may think will be...well...who knows).

I find them very misleading, and before your statement, I never thought Orcas island was named after Orcas or anything LIKE that. It was YOU who planted that idea in my head...and a little research did away with that notion in about 60 seconds.

However, I expect people here could do there own research. Hopefully, if they've been burned before with that type of thing, they will be hard to be burned by it again.

I DO thank you about the entire NHM idea. I had never heard of that, and a little research actually DID back up your claims in regards to what some have stated about it. I'm one of those who do not feel there is any evidence for the Book of Mormon (or for the bible for that matter) and it's probably as shaky evidence as the one mention that Josephus made that many feel is proof that the existence of the Lord is indeed...fact. (I don't accept that as evidence either, as Josephus's wording is not that clear in stating that the Lord was actually real or not, and there is not enough other evidence to back it up either).

I AM a Christian, but one who thinks that if it is true, than it's going to be something dealing with faith rather than evidence, because as far as I can see, there is no real evidence out there to support the ideas...hence one must have faith if they are a Christian and wish to be saved.

I suppose in that light, I have something in common with Atheists, or at least some agnostics.

What you read into farside's post reminds me of what Mormons read into NHM.

Ahh, I understand perfectly now. I will give your comments the consideration they deserve the next time I post on here. Thank you so much.

I thought that was a whale of a story...:)

and seven days of the week, seven seas, seven continents, seven seals, seven heavens, and seven brides for seven brothers...so therefore there must be seven planets.


But wait! There's more...