I would have probably selected a little differently, but there is still nothing from the BoM.

http://westerndigs.org/top-5-archaeology-discoveries-in-the-american-west-of-2016/

Those are some interesting articles at first glance.

Here is a quote from one:

"In addition to the 90 tools, the artifacts include more than 160,000 stone flakes left over from the tool-making process. And they, too, are different from the flakes found with Clovis tools, Wernecke said.

“The flaking patterns are also completely different,” he said.

“These were not made using Clovis technology.”

But the fact that these artifacts were different from, and deeper than, the Clovis points didn’t necessarily prove that they were older.

To establish their age, Wernecke and his colleagues submitted 18 of the artifacts to a lab for optically stimulated luminescence dating — a process that analyzes tiny grains in the soils to reveal when they were last exposed to sunlight, thereby giving a sense of how long they’ve been buried.

The results showed that the artifacts were between 13,200 to 16,700 years old.

At their most ancient, that’s some 3,000 years older than the earliest known signs of Clovis culture anywhere in North America."

13,000 to 16,000 years ago! No remains of Nephites have been found which population supposedly numbered in the millions over a 1000 year time span much closer to our day and age. Sometimes I think it would be fun to volunteer to work on a dig for a few weeks. A friend did this in Alabama a couple of year ago. No pay. The dig my friend participated in for a week had lectures in the evening which he found interesting. A form of our contemporary coffee grew (and I think it still does in Alabama) that only the priests could drink as it was too potent for women and common folks.

If you would like to volunteer, the USFS Passport in Time program is a really good way to help out. Not much going on this time of year, but next spring you may want to check into it. Here is the webpage.

http://www.passportintime.com/

/devil's advocate voice on

Q: If this site was among the "Top Archaeological Finds of 2016," then why can I find a 2005 Scientific American article that references Waters' plans? BTW, the site was originally "Clovis," and by 2012 was already being discussed.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/texas-archaeological-dig/

From Morrow, Fiedel, et al...

>"Pre-Clovis in Texas? A critical assessment of the “Buttermilk Creek Complex”

This one is available in pdf form...

>The chronostratigraphic position of the sediments underlying diagnostic Clovis and Folsom artifacts is sufficient to indicate that their age exceeds 13 kya. However, we note that the reported OSL dates have large standard errors and have been corrected by some unstated increment relying on an untestable assumption about the sediments’ water content over the millennia since their deposition(Waters et al., 2011a SOM, p. 6).

http://www.wennergren.org/events/stuart-j-fiedel-clovis-still-first

>The most recent genetic, archaeological, and paleontological evidence shows that: 1) Native North, Central, and South Americans are all descended from a single founding population derived from northern Eurasia; 2) a child of that population was buried with Clovis tools at the Anzick Site in Montana 13,000 years ago; 3) interior Clovis-linked sites are older than any coastal sites; 4) a Clovis-derived population rapidly occupied South America 13,000 years ago; and 5) rapid human expansion caused an ecosystem catastrophe that entailed the extinction of some 80 genera of megafauna.

The implications of the sequencing of the "Anzick Clovis Child" do not appear to have "filtered through" to many; I note Dennis Stanford's "Solutrean Hypothesis" is still discussed seriously in far too many articles.

Fiedel, incidentally, is not the "Clovis First Troglodyte" his detractors make him out to be. I've corresponded with him, and he is simply a serious scientist not prone to "faddish leaps."

>A parsimonious explanation for the undisputed Clovis traits in
the BCC assemblage and the artifacts’ vertical distribution is that the BCC is a composite of multiple, perhaps early, Clovis-era deposits subjected to human and/or animal trampling, and probably also affected by soil formation turbative processes. Alternatively, further analysis of lithic technology may show the BCC a distinctive “proto-Clovis” (Davis, 1978; Fiedel, 1999b; G. Haynes, 2002:253) ancestral precursor of the full-blown, continent-wide Clovis culture of 13 kya. In any event, we strongly question whether this assemblage is actually pre-Clovis as the term is usually defined, that is, both older than 13.5 kya, which it may be, and culturally distinctive from Clovis, which, on present evidence, it is not.

Beware the salesmen...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2016 04:54PM by SL Cabbie.

the smartest cabbie out there!

"A form of our contemporary coffee grew (and I think it still does in Alabama) that only the priests could drink as it was too potent for women and common folks."

Sounds like he's referring to "black drink":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_drink

"Muscogean Peoples
Among the Muscogee the blank drink is called ássi. In the ceremonies of some cultures that use the drink, after its preparation it is passed out to the highest status person first, then the next highest status, and so forth. During each persons turn to drink, ritual songs may be sung Yahola. Its use was traditionally limited to only adult men.[21] The ritual name Asi Yahola or Black Drink Singer is corrupted into English as Osceola)."

The Muscogee-born Seminole chief Osceola was so named because he drank the stuff.

Eric K quotes:

> Those are some interesting articles at first
> glance. Here is a quote from one:

"...the artifacts include more than 160,000 stone flakes left over from the tool-making process."

Eureka! The lads have dug a bloody ton of stone flakes!

So when will such dirt fishers fetch up at least one hoard of coins described in the Holy Book Alma... the silvers or even the gold.

Get real... ye hunters! Dig us a Nephite chariot!

"Get real... ye hunters! Dig us a Nephite chariot!"

Or at least, a travois sled with a backpack containing some chicken bones. :-)

"I have a bro-in-law who is convinced of the North American model for the BOM. We've talked about it extensively about it, but as you all know there is no collaborating evidence."

This is one of the greatest evidences that the BOM is a fraud: the very fact that factions of BOM believers differ so widely as to where BOM events occurred. Because those differing groups' theories place the locations thousands of miles apart---from Central America to New England---that means that they have no evidence to show that BOM events occurred *anywhere.* If you haven't yet done so, I suggest that you read the thread at

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon534.htm

"It is so bizarre to be told you just don't want it to be true because you don't like the church. My reply is I would love for them to find proof."

In the 185 years since the BOM's publication, not a single item of physical evidence has been discovered which would substantiate it. So at this point, the chances of any evidence being discovered in the future are zero. Given the descriptions of the people, the culture, the religion, the animals, and population figures, etc. that are written in the BOM, there simply is no excuse as to why we can't find a single item of evidence.

As I've remarked in the past, to use an analogy, the Romans invaded Britain in 55 B.C. There are mountains of evidence for that Roman invasion, conquest, and colonization---the roads, aqueducts, baths, coins, historical records, etc. So we should be able to find similar evidence of the BOM peoples' existence in the Americas from the same time period. The time has long passed to find that evidence, but none exists, and none will ever be found. Mormons who still believe that the BOM is an authentic history are living on false hopes.

Part my wife's conversion story is how incensed she was with a Bible that no two religions could agree on what it means: "Surely, God should have planned the Bible better so there would be no confusion as to what he wanted."

The missionaries then told her that God did have a better plan, and that it was made clear in the Book of Mormon. Everything that the apostate Christians had removed from the Bible were in the Book of Mormon, in which there is no confusion.

I've tried to explain to her that the Book of Mormon is just as vague as the Bible, which she has condemned for being vague. The proof is in the numerous Mormon sects, as well as the factions you've noted among those who have closely studied the BoM.

they're digging in the wrong place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk-B0s0jOwE

Everything in this article proves the BoM is true.

Not only that, there's nothing in any of the articles that haven't been written that don't prove that it's NOT true, and vice versa!

;)

That solar calendar found in Wupatki National park is absolutely fascinating. Thanks for sharing this.

Richard the Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have probably selected a little
> differently, but there is still nothing from the
> BoM.
>
> http://westerndigs.org/top-5-archaeology-discoveri
> es-in-the-american-west-of-2016/

I'm a big fan of ancient findings. I also like how there are people challenging some of the assumptions from academia. I have a bro-in-law who is convinced of the North American model for the BOM. We've talked about it extensively about it, but as you all know there is no collaborating evidence. It's fascinating how impassioned some of these people get. When you disagree on a specific idea, its viewed as a personal insult. It is so bizarre to be told you just don't want it to be true because you don't like the church. My reply is I would love for them to find proof. I love when conventional wisdom gets turned on its head. Furthermore, if it was proven true it doesn't mean I'm obliged to agree with the brethren. TBM thinking so simple. I sometimes wonder if this simple affects other areas of life.

"I have a bro-in-law who is convinced of the North American model for the BOM. We've talked about it extensively about it, but as you all know there is no collaborating evidence."

This is one of the greatest evidences that the BOM is a fraud: the very fact that factions of BOM believers differ so widely as to where BOM events occurred. Because those differing groups' theories place the locations thousands of miles apart---from Central America to New England---that means that they have no evidence to show that BOM events occurred *anywhere.* If you haven't yet done so, I suggest that you read the thread at

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon534.htm

"It is so bizarre to be told you just don't want it to be true because you don't like the church. My reply is I would love for them to find proof."

In the 185 years since the BOM's publication, not a single item of physical evidence has been discovered which would substantiate it. So at this point, the chances of any evidence being discovered in the future are zero. Given the descriptions of the people, the culture, the religion, the animals, and population figures, etc. that are written in the BOM, there simply is no excuse as to why we can't find a single item of evidence.

As I've remarked in the past, to use an analogy, the Romans invaded Britain in 55 B.C. There are mountains of evidence for that Roman invasion, conquest, and colonization---the roads, aqueducts, baths, coins, historical records, etc. So we should be able to find similar evidence of the BOM peoples' existence in the Americas from the same time period. The time has long passed to find that evidence, but none exists, and none will ever be found. Mormons who still believe that the BOM is an authentic history are living on false hopes.

Just finished watching "Secrets of the Dead" about archeological evidence for the hanging gardens of Babylon. It seems very interesting that they can positively identify ruins of over 3 thousand years ago in Iraq but they cannot conclusively find evidence of Book of Mormon cities or even the Nephites. Seems like God would be anxious for the world to know these things since He's fine with everyone knowing about most of the Biblical sites in the East. What makes Book of Mormon so hard to pin down? DUH!