Does anybody else find it odd or weird that an LDS temple marriage could be cruising along, doing just fine, until one of the couple starts thinking critically and stops drinking the morg koolaid: what happens then is completely antithetical to marital love. There is isolation, desertion, anger, and grieving...like someone died! The no-longer-believing partner in the marriage still loves the TBM partner, but the TBM completely (COMPLETELY) casts their partner away.

It almost feels like my (soon-to-be-ex) TBM wife never really loved ME: she loved the idea of 'together forever' with some penisholder; of a 'forever family' unless somebody started thinking for themselves and quit drinking the koolaid; of
a f-cking paycheck while I busted my a$$ working two jobs to support her and the kids.

So for 23 yrs I mistakenly thought she loved me, but I was simply a means to an end. Love is supposed to encompass an unconditional positive regard for another person or thing. The way my TBM spouse has reacted to my "truth enlightenment" has been anything but that of love: it's been rejection, ignoring, anger, etc. I know some folks on this board have written about their spouse "having their back." Wow. Wouldn't that be nice?

Peace out everybody. -edz

ed, I agree with you completely.
I'd just point out that many marriages, where the couple marrying were originally of the same religion, fall apart when one of them decides to change (or give up) religion.

It's often worse the more "culty" the religion is, and it often depends on the religion's stance on divorce...but I've even seen Catholics decide to divorce their spouses (despite the Catholic prohibition against divorce) because the other one leaves Catholicism.

In every case, I find it sad and abominable.

EdZ, I'm a regular here and my heart breaks for yor losses.

I have two thoughts for you -

First, and I say this in kindness, it was you who awoke, and in moving out of the cave, have left her in darkness. I can't know that you were being used; I think you may have been real partners in that cave. You are now alien to her, and her pain in losing her partner must be as real as yours.

Second, loving and tending your family as you did, while in the cave, is the stuff of honor. Nothing of you was wasted or lost; you will carry your honor with you, out of the cave, as you become ever more free to be who you were born to be.

I'm sorry that TSCC has done this to her, to you, to all lives they touch. Their touch is the hand of evil.

I'm so often privileged to read your words, and there must be thousands who can relate to your story. Whether they post or not, you let them know that they are not alone.

Thank you.

broken faith said it FAR better than I could...

My heart goes out to you, edzachery.

I wish you, and your family, all the best.

I am one who can relate to this story. I love your analogy of the cave; it really brings understanding.

It happens whenever people have been enculturated and indoctrinated to put their church above their marriage and family. I am grateful that my family does not feel this way.

Mormons aren't necessarily taught to marry someone because of who they are, they're taught to marry someone because of what they are...they're taught to marry a role. I'm reminded of how many times I heard while growing up that it doesn't really matter who you choose for a spouse just as long as that person is faithful to the church.

Mormon women are taught to find a worthy priesthood holder who served a mission and who will stay faithful to the church in order to take them to the Celestial Kingdom. Men are taught to find a virtuous woman of Zion who will be willing to have lots of babies and create a wonderful home and teach their children the gospel.

Unfortunately, if you deviate from your role, you might be in for a lot of heartache.

I feel for you edzachary. I have a TBM husband, so I think I understand the pain you must feel. My husband hasn't decided to divorce me yet, but sometimes I think it's because he doesn't really think he needs me in order to get himself to the Celestial Kingdom. He'll be assigned a more righteous wife later on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2017 06:50PM by want2bx.

Ed
Gman here...sounds as if your wife has made the move. On a nuts and bolts topic hope you have protected yourself, stayed in the home...I recall a comment your daughter who was living with you still at age 23 said to you- " Dad you are tearing this family apart". Hope she realizes now it was not you and can voice that. Curious to know what role bishopric, relief society, visiting teachers played in your bride's decision to leave. I suspect some.

" Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.." as the song goes. Years from now as this episode's pain fills less of the day I look forward to your posts of new found peace and happiness..always your buddy

Gatorman
9-4
11-3

It doesn't even need to be that one thought critically, but that one is overboard devoted 110%, and the other is 75% devoted because, well, they have to work take care if kids, and have a hobby or interest not morg related.

You see, you can only get blessed when you do Mormon stuff. (Obvious sarcasm)

That's what happened to me, after 20 years. The 110% Mormon tends to be narcissistic, and get huge ego gratification by showing to other Ward members how devoted they are. They can't understand how you don't get that. Their ego is securely tied to the cult.

Mormons & Christians CLAIM that Christ died on a cross for Everyone, unconditionally. That's love, got it.


But when Mormons 'love', it's conditional on such as your spouse, family:

attending mind-numbing meetings

having a TR

saying Yes to callings that they don't understand, aren't qualified for.

tithing & other donations

cleaning toilets, vacuuming their carpets, etc.

for wymen: having essentially as many pregnancies as your husband can father

making donuts will your husband & 12 + yr old sons are at the important meetings...

I remember not long after the temple wedding, my now ex trying to get me to get up and bear my testimony in FTM. I was being all stubborn and she turned me and asked for a divorce. Is that kind of thing normal? Uh, yes. And insane.

The last tbm girl I dated I told her I loved her when I thought things were getting more serious and she told me she couldn't tell me those words back till I had a temple recommend and we had been thru a session together hmm ok

You got it right...once you question, it's over in their minds. I was married 22 years and shocking how quickly she--a very nice and kind woman--was willing to go another direction.

That was three years ago. She remarried quickly thereafter and guess what? Her TMB husband is abusive and she's scared of him. (Gee, guess I was pretty nice to her after all.) And I get this email from her bishop last month asking if I will OK her temple marriage. LOL. She somehow wants to be with him forever.

I asked her if he was still sealed to his previous wife....because that would mean he's going to have two in heaven. No answer.

So in that time I've dated and been intimate with dozens of women. Best time of my life. Tired of it and now, in the last week, got engaged to a beautiful and hot Latina who is 10 years younger than me and rocks in the sack. Asks my permission for everything, doesn't care if I'm not Catholic, and simply wants to please me. Oh, and drink a few beers once in a while.

God I love 'merica.

Did I say she has never been married and has no children? Speaks three languages and has a college degree? And super hot? (Oh, yeah, I did say that already.)

Wait until your ex finds her next husband loves porn or is abusive or sneaks a drink of vodka [a lot] or can't get an erection. But hallelujah he has a temple recommend.

Here is the last text I sent to the ex, whom I have had a good relationship with until this: "Please give me a call when you are feeling better. I'm getting tired of your asshole husband treating our kids like shit."

(She went skiing with him a couple weeks ago, hit hear head and sustained a concussion...couldn't get up or even speak and he said to her, "You are fine, get up and walk it off!" Ultimately was transported to the hospital. Her TBM temple-recommend holder yelled at my kids and called them "brats" for being concerned about her. Oh yeah, great guy.)

Congratulations, TXRancher! Way to go!!

In spite of the negative role of the LDS cult in this divorce, I believe that relationships hardly ever end overnight.

Maybe there were also other things in your marriage that were not going quite well, don't you think? And then your "apostasy" was the last straw - maybe the final excuse that your wife needed to separate.

Most of my relationships had been deteoriorating for a long time before they finally came to a definitive stop. It is usually a long, slow process. Sometimes you simply get tired of the other person, no matter how nice she/he is.

Once again, I don't mean to downplay the horrendous role that the Mormon cult plays on people's lives. But I have seen other marriages resist "apostasy" - when there were strong feelings, and other aspects of the marriage were going well, including sex.

I am quite pessimistic about human relationships in general. Separation is the rule, long marriages are the exception. There are too many complicated factors involved, it's hard to make things work between two human beings on a long-term basis. Religion is only one aspect. There are hundreds of others.

French Zoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In spite of the negative role of the LDS cult in
> this divorce, I believe that relationships hardly
> ever end overnight.

I would tend to agree, although, in this case, it DID end overnight.

>
> Maybe there were also other things in your
> marriage that were not going quite well, don't you
> think? And then your "apostasy" was the last straw
> - maybe the final excuse that your wife needed to
> separate.

No. In fact, the soon-to-be-ex-wife has told me that she thought things were going "quite well" right up until the moment I "fell away," at which point she checked out of the relationship and began her scheming to leave. I appreciate your valiant attempts to paint this picture as even-handed or fair, but there isn't one effing thing fair about thinking you marry someone for love only to get kicked in the gut years later because one member of the couple has learned information that had previously been hidden from them...and the "offended" party in the marriage decides that, because of your change of heart, you are no longer worthy of their "love" anymore. That's what makes this so difficult: I have to wonder, now, did she EVER really love me, or was I just a means to an end?


>
> Most of my relationships had been deteoriorating
> for a long time before they finally came to a
> definitive stop. It is usually a long, slow
> process. Sometimes you simply get tired of the
> other person, no matter how nice she/he is.
>
> Once again, I don't mean to downplay the
> horrendous role that the Mormon cult plays on
> people's lives. But I have seen other marriages
> resist "apostasy" - when there were strong
> feelings, and other aspects of the marriage were
> going well, including sex.

Uh, the sex was great; earth-shattering, if I must say so myself (and she said the same thing...many times); we went out on dates every week; we flirted; we touched; we stared; etc... But, once I "came clean" about what I had learned about Joseph's Myth and other troubling factors in the early days of TSCC, all of those things I mentioned above vanished. *POOF* Gone. No more.


>
> I am quite pessimistic about human relationships
> in general. Separation is the rule, long marriages
> are the exception. There are too many complicated
> factors involved, it's hard to make things work
> between two human beings on a long-term basis.
> Religion is only one aspect. There are hundreds of
> others.

Unfortunately, your last two sentences don't seem to capture the essence of the mindset of TBMs the way that I'm learning the hard way. I would modify your penultimate sentence to read: "Religion, to some TBMs, is the ONLY aspect [of a successful relationship]."

Have a good day.
-edzachery

Same here, mine ended overnight. There were some major cracks in my testimony in September and by December she asked me for a divorce.....on Christmas morning after the kids opened their presents.

I was shocked. Great timing on her part, too. Later found out she had been texting and talking to an old high school boyfriend all month (I'm sure he encouraged her) and that was it. Wow.

She was/is very attractive, kind, and a pretty good mother. But during that period she turned dark...almost like manufacturing anger and resentment to distance herself from me. Anti-depression drugs didn't help, I don't think, and took her emotions away. But she was always also insecure, immature, no college education and barely any work history.

Now she's stuck with him.

Sure, you were a means to an end. Mormonism is a means to an end. Although I understand about as much about women as my dog understands about cats. Cats will confuse the hell out of a dog.

here is your Mormon love

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail." This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

-----

No lasting symbols (rings), no affection (you may kiss the bride), and no "honor, love or cherish one another." like you're marrying the church more than you're marrying one another.

The groom

It's all one sentence!

...receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony IN THE NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

The new and everlasting covenant is polygamy!

Notice that to the groom is said, "Receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife...."

And that to the bride is said, "...give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband...."

The groom doesn't "give himself." My wife-beater temple ex thought this was key.

I'm so sorry for everyone who has had a spouse reject them, for something as stupid and fake as a cult.

These stories are similar to stories of people marrying people for their money, too. When the money goes, the marriage goes.

I know many lonely souls in a love-less marriage. A lot of my previous Mormon friends said that if they left the church, their husband would leave them. My own daughter believes that.

Another lonely married friend says that his wife married him only for his money, and he's right, because his wife told me, herself, in confidence. She never did love him. In his case, the money has lasted, and so has the marriage. She takes vacations away from him, to Europe and the Bahamas, etc.

EDZ, heartfelt best wishes for the future! Im so sorry that she chose the cult over you. If your ex is like my TBM, she's is probably a good woman with a kind heart, but totally brainwashed.

Others now bring out my best qualities, and the same is true with Mrs. Boner--others now bring out her loving and compassionate side--not me. It was not that way many years ago. Maybe it would have turned out this way anyway after more than 30 years marriage. But, certainly, the cult exacerbated the distance by providing our wives with feeling of moral superiority.

You are one of my heroes here on RfM. The Boner!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2017 07:09PM by BYU Boner.

You da man, Boner. Thanks, buddy.

not mormon love. I married him because I loved him and wanted to give him a good life, give him the children he so desperately desired. For those new to the board, he's gay. I never wanted a bishop or a great church leader. I wanted a husband, a lover ,a friend, etc.

He left me, put me through hell, and I loved him all through it, and now we share the same home that we purchased together over 30 years ago (and I paid for by myself for almost 20 years).

I'll always love him, but in the right way now. He is one of my best friends.

I do have a boyfriend, the guy I wanted to marry at age 20, but he wasn't mormon. He's 63 and I'm 59. We've been "together" now for 12 years.

I do not understand conditional love. I cannot imagine attaching conditions to loving someone. I fell in love with my wife and didn't care what religion she was...or anything else.

Which is how I thought it was supposed to be, too. Oh, how wrong I was.

Ed
Keep us up to date...think often of your pain and hugs to you Bro

Gatorman
9-4
12-3

God, I never knew that about the sealing ceremony. About how the wife 'gives' herself to the 'receiving' husband. So fucked up.

I don't know why anything about Mormonism-particularly as it relates to the temple- surprises me anymore. I still occasionally find Shit out, though, that makes my head spin. The sorts of things that absolutely confound me, yet my family, who on the whole are exceptionally well-educated people- PhD's and whatnot- seem to tolerate just fine.

But I will say this, that whatever they are doing seems to work for them. On my dad's side of the family, the marriages where the people stayed in the church are still going strong- my parents, my uncle's, and my grandparents. My other aunt and uncle have both been married more than once, one was just going through a separation, and it sounds like there might be a reconciliation, I don't know. He quit believing in the church when he was 14, about the same time I did. My aunt was married in the temple in the early eighties, but quit going to church with her husband, they got divorced, she got remarried, and then got divorced again a couple years ago because her ex is possibly the biggest asshole I have ever met.

I think my parents see this as evidence that church marriages work. That's not what I see at all. I think that the people whose marriages worked oit ended up with people that work for them. Together, they made couples who were willing to compromise when they had to, and hold fast yo things when they had to, as well. If that makes sense. They were flexible people. The men also married women who expected to follow their husbands wherever their careers might take them.

My grandma got married almost 60 years ago, so it was a more traditional time. She is an incredibly smart, well-educated woman, but she happens to be married to a now retired former University President/Dean/Professor. They are liberal, academic types, who have spent a lot of the last 30 years traveling the world together and enjoying their time after their kids left home. They also really enjoy their grandchildren. I imagine they get on each others nerves, but it seems to me like they have a really good marriage. I'd be lucky to find that kind of happiness. I also suspect, much more strongly for my grandpa then for my grandma, that they have serious doubts about the church, and may even be closeted non-believers, but they repress these thoughts in order to maintain the status quo amongst themselves and with the rest of their family. This seems to work for them, and it's only a suspicion I have, so it's not like I can confirm it.

Anyway, that's the story of one good Mormon marriage. However, I see Mormonism as being the least important aspect of what has made their marriage successful, and if you ask them and they were forced to answer honestly, I think they would agree up to a point. I think they would ascribe the values of Mormonism as to what has made their marriage successful, but those values can be found anywhere, and certainly did not originate with Mormonism. It's not like any of the values included marrying several women at once. :D

Mormonism is quick to take credit for the successes of marriages and slow to see it as the possible downfall of marriages.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2017 12:32AM by midwestanon.

It's right there in the temple sealing ceremony. You don't
marry each other, you both marry the Church. Nowhere in your
temple-marriage vows do you promise to love each other. However
you do promise to keep all the covenants you've made in the
temple.