This sucks! My spouse hasn't been super devout the last couple years...read enough about Joe to admit that he was, at best, a fallen prophet, but still wanted to believe...mostly for family/social reasons. Don't know what changed, but is now back to reading the BoM, spouting apologetic BS about prior doubts, talking tithing, temple recommend, etc... I thought we were out of the woods for sure. WTF!?!

It's eclipse season. People will be off their heads.

In all seriousness, I'm sorry. Sometimes people get scared and run to the known with a ne'er seen zealousness. My advice is to be patient especially if this is a blip. If you (over)react, it confirms to them they are right and to 'expect opposition in all things'.

It's hard to keep up the crazy train anyway.

Your not wrong on the eclipse comment caramel...plus the moon is closer than usual...people with sensitive psyches may be more vulnerable to moon battery...the road out of churchdom is seldom straight...having lost sight of the goal we redouble our efforts to make it make sense...nothing is easy or straight forward in moism including leaving...the web is tangled with family and social tenticles and crap you just have to warp your brain to believe...hoping its just a temporary state...but with all things mo...you just never know...the connecting of success with gawd blessing can be a real humdinger too...reversals or even depression can be seen as gawd being displeased...ask any bishop...the answer is always ...pay pray obey..with a spicy dose of scripture sauce....the stuff crazy is made of

Trails end Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your not wrong on the eclipse comment
> caramel...plus the moon is closer than
> usual...people with sensitive psyches may be more
> vulnerable to moon battery...

Actually, the moon *isn't* closer than usual...

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/distance.html

But even if it were, that would have no bearing of any kind on anyone's "psyche."

What's likely affecting the OP's TBM spouse is that somebody got to her with the whole "your husband is leading you to outer darkness" thing, and convinced her that her mortal soul is in danger of not getting a spot as a plural wife in the imagined celestial kingdom. The guilt and indoctrination got to her, and probably peer/family pressure, too.

Who's she been talking to?
'Cause it ain't the moon...

Thanks for the reminder, Trails end, that the moon is in its cyclical full mode.

I've been wondering why have been feeling stronger than usual about making a major change in my life, and that may be the reason why!

It's no secret more babies are born during full moons in hospital maternity wards, or crimes committed during the full moon to police departments.

There is something about the gravitational pull of the moon, earth and ocean bodies of water (which rise to their highest,) that affects us as humans who are made up of mostly ... water.

Sorry OP, for your dilemma. That is a bad rap. Hope you can figure out which way or the highway to take from here, going forward.

Pay lay ale. ;-)

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been wondering why have been feeling stronger
> than usual about making a major change in my life,
> and that may be the reason why!

No, actually, that may not be the reason why.

> It's no secret more babies are born during full
> moons in hospital maternity wards, or crimes
> committed during the full moon to police
> departments.

Every single one of those assertions are false.

> There is something about the gravitational pull of
> the moon, earth and ocean bodies of water (which
> rise to their highest,) that affects us as humans
> who are made up of mostly ... water.

Your complete lack of understanding of simple math and physics may lead you to that false conclusion, but if you'll bother to educate yourself the tiniest bit, you can rid yourself of such false conclusions.

Kolob, I've had it confirmed to me by nurses in hospital wards as to the rise of births during the full moon.

And I worked for a top ten US police department where police also confirmed to me that more crimes occur during full moons, (and for hospital emergency wards an increase in crime victims,) than other times of the month.

It isn't "my" assertion.

You only pretend to be a "know-it-all." But you are far from it.

"Human births and the phase of the moon." Abell GO, Greenspan B. N Engl J Med. 1979 Jan 11;300(2):96.

Abstract:
Published studies on the frequency of births as related to the lunar cycle are inconsistent with each other. The distribution of all births during 51 lunar cycles, from March 17, 1974, to April 30, 1978, was analyzed by the authors at the University of California, Los Angeles, Hospital. There were 11,691 live births, of which 8142 were natural, 141 multiple, and 168 stillbirths. In none of the 4 samples was the mean number of births occurring on the date of the full moon above average, showing that the birthrate during the period surveyed did not in any way correlate with the cycle of lunar phases

"Strange things seem to happen when there’s a full moon, especially in the hospital.

That’s where an incredible 45 babies entered the world last weekend in Sacramento, Calif., according to FOX 40. But some say the mini “baby boom” was no accident.

Throughout a period of 48 hours, doctors at Sacramento’s Sutter Memorial delivered 45 newborns— a possible record for deliveries in a two-day period for the city, stated hospital spokesperson Gary Zavoral. While some doctors joke that the high number of births could be attributed to the full moon, hospital officials hint that the speculation might not be that far out. After all, menstruation and ovulation more or less follow a lunar cycle, so why can’t childbirth be affected, too?

The theory of the lunar effect on births is based off the fact that the moon’s gravitational pull causes high tides. Since the human body is made up of 80 percent water, the pull is believed to speed along the childbirth process, according to Discovery Health.

However, several studies suggest that the idea of the lunar effect influencing the number or frequency of deliveries is just, well, looney.

In 2005, researchers from Mountain Area Health Education Center in North Carolina analyzed almost 600,000 births across 62 lunar cycles. The data were retrieved from birth certificates from 1997 to 2001. The result? No significant differences in the frequency of births across the eight stages of the moon.

Scientific data doesn’t put old myths to bed, though. The anecdote of the lunar effect is a longstanding one, and some medical professionals won’t deny that things get pretty hectic when the full moon is out.

“I think if you talk to anybody on the front lines of the hospital, emergency room doctors, labor and delivery, etc. it’s always like that on the full moon, everyone for some reason is really busy,” Matthew Guile, a doctor at Sutter Memorial, told Fox 40."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/full-moon-babies-lunar-effect_n_927703.html

I know Mormons that take a lot of anecdotal evidence, and ignore what they don't like, to come up with all kinds of conclusions

This isn't Mormon 'anecdotal' evidence.

It's doctors, ER's, maternity wards, and police departments.

It's people like you who would assert the earth is flat when there were scientists saying it was round.

There is a correlation between the crime rates and birth rates and the full moon, whether you work on the front lines or not to see it yourself up close and personal.

Full moons also affect *us,* with the gravitational pull on our bodies.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Full moons also affect *us,* with the
> gravitational pull on our bodies.

I've pointed out the others, let me deal with this one:

The "phase" of the moon (new, quarter, full), has absolutely NOTHING to do with the gravitational pull of the moon, or its distance from the earth.

"Full" moons occur when the moon is at its furthest from the earth, when it's at its closest, and everywhere in between. The "full" phase has ONLY to do with the angle between the sun/earth/moon -- and NOTHING to do with the distance between th earth and the moon.

So yet another of your assertions is flat-out wrong, something you could easily rectify with the tiniest bit of research on the subject. But, of course, if you think it's more fun to be ignorant on the subject and believe/assert nonsense, you can continue to do so...

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't Mormon 'anecdotal' evidence.

We have two studies on this thread that BOTH state that when they look at the actual data there is no correlation with a higher frequency of full moon babies.

But people that work in the maternity wards are determined that their experience is the exact opposite of this. Sounds anecdotal to me.

>
> It's people like you who would assert the earth is
> flat when there were scientists saying it was
> round.
Why are you attacking me personally now?


>
> There is a correlation between the crime rates and
> birth rates and the full moon, whether you work on
> the front lines or not to see it yourself up close
> and personal.

Actual data that has been analyzed says otherwise.

The effect of the full moon on ED visits has also been studied in the Emergency literature. There is no evidence of an increase in ED visits due to the moon. There is an increase in visits that coorelates with the 1st and 15th of the month (adjusted for weekends). That has less to do with the moon and more to do with check disbursements.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, several studies suggest that the idea of
> the lunar effect influencing the number or
> frequency of deliveries is just, well, looney.
>
> In 2005, researchers from Mountain Area Health
> Education Center in North Carolina analyzed almost
> 600,000 births across 62 lunar cycles. The data
> were retrieved from birth certificates from 1997
> to 2001. The result? No significant differences in
> the frequency of births across the eight stages of
> the moon.

Notice: the story YOU are referring to lets you know that when you objectively look at the records, NO LUNAR EFFECT is visible. None, zip.

> “I think if you talk to anybody on the front
> lines of the hospital, emergency room doctors,
> labor and delivery, etc. it’s always like that
> on the full moon, everyone for some reason is
> really busy,” Matthew Guile, a doctor at Sutter
> Memorial, told Fox 40."

Even doctors are subject to confirmation bias and ignorance of facts. The doctor is flat-out wrong -- as your article shows.

The facts are simple (no matter what anecdotal stories from doctors and cops say): lunar cycles have zero effect on births, crime rates, or anything else humans mistakenly claim they do.

"....may be more vulnerable to moon battery"

Full moon battery! That's a good one. Sounds like a spanking game.

The only "battery" the moon can do to you is bruise your ego when someone points out the absurdity of your comments.

I was the same. I needed an extra trip with the crazy train to lala-land to finally make a decision to get off of that track. I became very active for some months, got a TR again and was called into institute teaching. (after being inactive for years it was a spiritual decision by the SP I guess...) but you can't ignore all you have learned about it in the last years and you see things differently. You know that you had found out that it is a fraud and a scam, you can't ignore all the pain it causes in your past. I needed it for my final cut. And more than that I needed the confirmation that they don't have any power, that they don't know anything about me due the authority and priesthood power they claim to have.. I lied bluntly in their face, obviously and left the office with a brand new TR. It was more an emotional than a rational thing.

I am so sad this is happening to you, for I know this may interact with loving engagement, or insert defensiveness. See if there is any possible way to demonstrate protecting your spouse, that they are safe with you, you want them all the best, and protect them against all danger. So rather than defensiveness despite the religion fall back (opt out of whatever they said earlier, or perhaps being really truthful about the words they use to describe existential fear, or seek existential co fort and solace in their language of the heart which may be very young.)


Just last Week, I light heartedly teased my spouse that possibly it was time to sell of give away the catholic marion icons. Leaning back I thought he was asleeep out of the pillows past his extended hair covered legs and bare toes pointing up in the night air his voice rang out across the black valley night "I'd rather be dead." His bass voice rough with sleep jarred awake aware through some visceral needs chord struck by my jest. "I thought you were a diest " I responded in shock. "I'm a catholic diest" his voice rumbled through the dark.

Respectfully, the next day before he left I said then let's put it on a personal altar (moving things hanging an icon his uncle gave him.) over the next week I saw statuary moving, as if in time lapse pictures appearing, beside a beautiful large piece of petrified wood.

Kindness not defensive combatants flow fortunately through some authentic spiritual ritual comforts like my husbands statue, uncles seed rosary, wood carving I see him trace with his hands, and petrified rock his fingertips caress as he walks by it after standing still and gathering his thoughts at the beginning of a new day before he puts on his digital hearing aide he keeps between his fossilized wood rock and soft blue glazed ceramic madonna.

He doesn't mock me doing Qi gong clumsily pointing my toes trying to find balance in the yoga pose his athletic body would hold far far better than mine. How can I look at this his truth and still, be safe in it, know and trust that my husband will not come with a priest to excorcize me whenever we disagree and support me in counseling instead.

Oh --- such a threat such a threat. I thought we were past it. Oooh trust! Where are you?

Hoping the best for you
and gentle safety for your wife so secure
no villainy nor defensive postures
nor hypervigilant freak outs in the dark scared moments
when floor boards creak
over head tornados roll through
let her not now or ever turn away from you
but let her know the safety
of your arms
your mind your words your wisdom
and be capable,
be able,
to feel your love.

Heart space



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2017 04:34AM by paintinginthewin.

I don't know your back story, but my advice is for you to be very loving and attentive and patient. Be supportive of everything she does--everything except the Mormon cult. That's what my husband did, and I followed him out of Mormonism about 11 months later. It just took me longer, that's all. I didn't believe the doctrine, but I was still under the brainwashed idea that Mormonism provided the best way to raise children. Once I realized how abusive Mormons could be, we were OUT.

If you go to church with your wife, you are making it easier for her to stay in the cult. Refuse to go. Make it known that you are inactive. The Mormons will treat your wife very differently, when she has an "inactive spouse." She won't be included in all the couples-oriented social life. She (and you) will be gossiped about. She will be marginalized, as not part of the married group, but not part of the singles group, either. When she's on the outside, looking in, she will see for herself how crazy and critical and negative and depressing Mormons can be.

Be kind and comforting, because it all will be painful for your wife, but stand by your principles and make your wife face this alone. The Mormons themselves will make her realize that those friendships aren't real. She will be happy to leave.

When I was becoming inactive, I would go back to church, hoping to find some of the friendship I missed. I kept having to see for myself how fake it all was. Even after knowing the BOM was false, I would try to read parts of it, looking for reassurance that maybe it wasn't that bad. Each time I got close to that cult, the more I realized how insane it really was. Give your wife the time and space she needs, and be patient.

Get your children out, if they are still trapped in the cult. Don't expect kids to handle what you, as an adult couldn't handle. Children need your help! My children were extremely happy and relieved to be taken out of that mess.

My wife's faith waxes and wanes with some regularity; though if you were to graph it, the overall trend seems to be waning.

She was very TBM when we married and was very gung ho about getting me converted, though my resistance and subsequent conversations have added some cracks to her shelf. Then, like clockwork, something will trigger a renewed effort to pay, pray, and obey; but these efforts are becoming shorter in duration before she stops reading the scriptures, praying, and attending church.

For example, last Saturday she was telling me that she needed to start attending church again, and read her scriptures for a few minutes before falling asleep. Being the supportive husband that I am, and finding sacrament meetings to be entertaining (especially F&Ts), I woke my wife up with plenty of time to get ready for church. She just rolled over and said she'd rather sleep.

I can empathize...

Everyone of us apostates that are married to a TBM spouse are just one GA talk, one Ensign article, or one prompting of the "Spirit" away from a ride on the crazy train.

westerly62 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can empathize...
>
> Everyone of us apostates that are married to a TBM
> spouse are just one GA talk, one Ensign article,
> or one prompting of the "Spirit" away from a ride
> on the crazy train.

Yep. I'm so sorry I mentioned the eclipses. We have a lunar (10 Feb) eclipse and a solar (26 Feb) eclipse but these are just what they are: a language for phenomenon. For those who subscribe to these ideas, then follow accordingly.

OP, sometimes those we love get scared. Either because their lives are not going well, or those they love are injured, sick, suffering. They worry that it's a consequence of their disobedience.

Further, TSCC promises great blessings to those who are obedient/faithful. If your spouse believes her life could be oh so much better, then TSCC holds out the carrot.

Show her love and acceptance. Regard her as ill if you have to. But don't freak out (come here and rant instead) as you will look like the problem. Understand she is not of right mind and you risk your relationship if you confront her.

Sounds like she has been talking to someone who has a lot of influence over her. If her parents or family are TBM they are probably scaring the beJebus out of her, threatening her with the Telestial Kingdom if she doesn't get her butt back to church, and reading the scriptures, praying, paying tithing,etc. etc.
And no speaking evil of the Lord's anointed, either. Wash your mouth out with soap!