Like the subliminal thoughts and ingrained indoctrination and all the repetitive hymns, scriptures, weekly routines like fhe,conference twice a year tithing settlement, I mean ALL brainwashing how long does it take to deprogram all that nonsense, even the dream of the celestial kingdom nonsensense. I know it takes more than 8 months but I'm guessing its longer for people that have been in there for like 40 years. I'm curious cause I want this deprogramming to hurry up and be done with so I'm not such an idiot in normal society and I can live a real life and not prepare for a second coming or a celestial kingdom anymore.

Brainwashing is meant to last a lifetime.

Fuck are you being serious there has got to be a way to undo this.

There is -- don't let it affect you.
cludgie is right, though, it lasts a lifetime.
I left the church 36 years ago.
I can still give you the missionary discussions (in both French and English) word for word, without even thinking about it. I know all the words to primary songs like "Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam." I can give you the temple ritual nonsense word for word.

That crap was burned into my brain using very effective methods. It'll never be gone.

I just use it for good now instead of evil -- like teaching people the discussion at the veil from the temple so they can do it to the missionaries when they bother them. :)

I've never done the temple rituals just seen them so I guess I should be grateful for that. I was hoping there would be a point when everything just fades away and the mind would be normal again but I guess its always going to be there God damn.

Only I know the way out. Now pay me money, or I won't show you.

I aint paying you shit after the phone call I just got I'm pissed right now

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only I know the way out. Now pay me money, or I
> won't show you.


Let me guess...10% of my earnings?

no way out!!!

how long does brainwashing last? FOREVER!!! I joined the cult when I was 30 and had 3 small kids and going through a rought time, they found me and were sooooo nice. when my oldest son was murdered at the age of 36 they were sooooo mean. not the women so much but the leaders were not nice. they basically said it was his own fault for not being in the church.

the reason he was not in the church was because a bishops son told his daddy bishop my son smoked. he had allergies and til the day he died he didn't smoke. that bishop told me he was going to believe his son over me and my son. my son would get a soft drink and chew on the straw and bishop's kid saw my son from a distance and thought he was smoking.

iguess the kid was taught "the appearance of evil" and the no pun intended but that was the last straw before my son went inactive. it took me another 20 years to get my fill of the bs.

FOREVER IS FOREVER. little reminders are always subject to recall but the benefits of leaving far outweigh the subtle always in the back of the mind remains of brainwashing. way easier to live with that than to continue in the cult.

I too was a victim of a false rumor about smoking. My callings were taken and I couldn't get another one while I was in that branch. I remember wondering what happened to that BP's "gift of discernment", but hung on, thinking that things would be better in another ward. Alas, every ward is a judgmental rumor factory. I stayed in the church because of my spiritual experiences, not understanding that people of other churches/religions had strong spiritual experiences, too.

what a laugh. they have no "spirit of discernment". remember Hinckley buying those false documents? check this out-----Mark Hofmann - Fooled the Mormon Prophets and Apostles.

I went from a fanatic Mormon to a if there is a god. well, if there is a god we can thank him for the internet to find out the truth. google and hit enter for the truth!!

this is an excellent book and it should help make you feel great about leaving the church. I was laid up with a broken foot one winter and was having problems with falling for Mormonism although I had been active for decades and attended the temple 1-2 times a month.

I thought I would study up and get straightened out and after I ran onto this I had a whole new life, or should I say I went bad to life before lds.

it took me 3 days to read this and with a puke bucket by my bed I was so sick. my friend told me to stop reading and just leave the church like she did. being a legal secretary I told her I would study all sources of evidence and make a decision one way or the other. it took me another three years to completely leave even knowing the church is a racket. I left behind my friends, the only friends I had while in the church. I still have contact with the ones that like me for me. others only like you when you are active.

the general authorities do get paid. pay my living expenses and give me a nice place to live and I could do that work too. on the other hand, no I couldn't. I could not do what they do knowing it is false. google paul dunn. they know it'
s not true. and now so do I!!!


http://www.mazeministry.com/mormonism/19thwife/19thwifedownload.htm

Good question. I bet that mileage varies for everybody.

In many ways as I grew up in the church I deliberately detached myself from some things that I thought were too much, like I refused to do Personal Progress when I was 16.

But even with that kind of learned detachment, it feels scary to change. I feel weird wearing regular underwear.

I am going to prescribe myself what worked the last two years of intense anxiety: more comedy. Seriously, I watched The Big Bang Theory series at least 4 times as I folded laundry and did other mundane tasks (I'm a SAHM with seven kids at home.)

So laughter helps. Meeting other people helps, especially well-rounded, sensible, good people.

And I am learning more about Grant Palmer and his Incomparable Christ. I think that, since he is also an exmormon and Christian, his writings about Christ from that lens can help me investigate my values and my Christianity after Mormonism.

I have noticed that laughter does do something you're right about that.

Free therapy!!! Especially laugh with another human being. Wrestle if they're the wrestling type. Laugh until you cry.

Grant Palmer is my favorite ex-mo that I have met online, because upon leaving, I still wanted very much to hang on to Jesus Christ.

Thanks to TEVO, I laughed my way through cancer, leaving mormonism, 3 teenagers, etc.

I would tape late shows and anything that was funny to me. I would watch at least a hour of comedy every morning after everyone left the house for the day. It helped me get through a lot of stuff. It really is the best medicine.

Sure beats talking awkwardly, my counselor kind of sucks I almost want to find a new one right now I thought she had some serious experious with people that had trauma in the lds faith but I don't know if she knows what she's doing.

I agree with laughter--I crave it. I also agree with ificouldhietokolob--some memorized things and rituals will never be forgotten.

Someone told me that it can take a long time to get to where you don't even think much about the church. To stop mourning. She told me that it can take a month for every year that I was TBM. For me that's 50 months.

So, although I see great progress, I also am realistic about it being quick. It's not quick for me. I look forward to the time when I am a normal human being.

I look forward to the time when I'm normal as well I know I'm more normal than I used to be that's for damn sure, when I talk to robotic TBMs I can gauge my progress and it's pretty cool.

This is not a process you want to rush, it has to go at the pace it does. When you try to rush it, it can lead to a lot of suppression and displacement of emotions regarding the cult. If you were raised in the cult, the brainwashing effects last for a lifetime for a lot of people, especially when compounded with abuse and trauma. Sure, you can learn to mitigate it and time does help, but you have to let it work itself out or it leads to other issues. Subjectively speaking, I watched this with a lot of newly minted exmos in my early days of leaving and because *I* didn't seek the help I desperately needed at that time, it affected me to the point of shattering into millions of pieces. I then had to learn to use tools to put myself back together and it's an especially painful, loooong process when compounded with other issues.

Therapy is not supposed to be easy and that's a misconception people have about it. It's meant to tear you down to your core, examine the rotten, negative parts of yourself, discard, then build you up into a more fruitful person. It takes time and work. Therapists are there to give you tools that you didn't know were out there to help you cope with life and it only works if you can be honest with yourself and your shrink. Add to the fact you have a Cluster C disorder and are recovering from surgery and you have a lot on your plate.

You are right I shouldn't be rushing anything right now.

In my case, I did most of the brainwashing, or at least a lot of it, to
myself.

I call it the autowash

How did that happen?

i read the book of mormon many times, did what they asked, prayed for better understanding, nothing special, just tbm stuff, which facilitated my belief in error.

I think it depends how long your were in and how "into it" you were. I converted and jumped in with all my might. Temple,mission, failed temple marriage, but while married many leadership positions, and well respected. After divorce treated like dirt, BUT kept it up. I was a temple going fool and that is what kept me in. I was in the endowments with the slicing movements. It lasts a long time. But I went to therapy and am much better. As I have posted many times-still cannot say temple name. People here have dismissed it, but it is real and brainwashing can last a lifetime.

I thought about that because although I was born in it I was never really "into it" I doubted it and disliked the leaders when I was a teen and never went on a mission, kind of faded away in college then came back kind of strong when I was 29 and stayed active for a couple of years to give it a second chance. So I dont think I was ever mentally a hardcore mormon but I don't know what was done subliminally when I was younger really its all a blank those early years.

I don't know that you ever get completely over brainwashing 100%. The black hole that is Kolob may always have some kind of pull even though you know it is all fantasy. The new healthier neural pathways you lay down as an ex-mo may get sidelined every so often under certain circumstances to an older one from your brainwashing day as a Mormon.

You can use some of the old patterning against it. Remember those thought stoppers we were taught as Mormons to keep us from questioning? They also work on the old brainwashing that work to draw us back in.

It depends on how much of it happened and for how long and also how much the individual works on being rid of it.

I left mormonism at about age 21 and was immersed in the nonmo world for at least eight or ten years before I had worked through most of my issues. I had the double whammy of being in both the mainstream mormon church in 100% Northern Utah and a polygamy cult setting with crazy abusive parents and a plyg prophet who preached at us.

Thats kinda what I was hoping or projecting about a few years

I tried flushing out my brain with loads of new information. I memorized poetry and quotes from Shakespeare, in hopes of "extinguishing" those old Mormon chants, songs, and scriptures. It worked a little, but best of all, it kept my mind off of my cult past.

Actions work. Laughter, is sort of an action. Swearing, posting in RFM, throwing my garments in the garbage, burning photos of my wife-beater temple ex-husband, burning photos of my Bishop nephew who stole money from the family, refusing to open the door to missionaries, grocery shopping away from our ward neighborhood, not going to any Mormon functions. I recycled 7 boxes of Mormon books, scriptures, lesson manuals, and music.

Writing a resignation letter with my children, and officially
resigning was the best thing we did.

I think the memorized factoids are out of my head, but it's harder to get rid of the superstitions. I still sometimes look over my shoulder, when I miss someone's Mormon funeral or baptism or Mormon wedding, thinking my mother might see me and punish me. Sometimes there's a bit of fear--maybe all those Mormon curses on apostates will come crashing upon me.

Life is too great! It has been hard to believe that the world is such a lovely place, and there is so much LOVE all around us, and that we DESERVE to be happy--without "paying the price" in money, boredom, pain, and other bad stuff.

I had to discover that we CAN help others, in a way that is directly beneficial to all, and REWARDING to us, the givers, as well. It's not our duty. We give freely. We are actually thanked, once in a while!

Just live your life outside the cult, and observe what happens. Facts eventually overpower the brainwashing. Brainwashing = negative. Real facts = positive.

I'll add my 2 cents. If you find anything of value in Mormonism that uplifts or helps you--keep it. I've abandoned most things Mormon, but there are some people and things I still value.

but you can find a lot of healing that helps you deal with it. I do have to give credit to my therapist, who is also an exmo. He was helping me with the mess of my gay/straight marriage and I didn't know he was an exmo. I finally asked him about his beliefs as he was obviously a mormon. I had already been inactive for a while and really questioning my beliefs. He helped me a lot. It is nice to have someone to go ask about mormonism who GETS IT.

I'm so damn glad I didn't memorize the temple stuff. It is odd because I have always had a great memory and can memorize things easily. I knew the temple was all bullshit deep down, though I tried to convince myself the few times I went back.

This board helped a lot. It can seem like overload, but I worked through SO MUCH by reading here. I don't come back nearly as much as I used to and I do it now because I'm taking breaks from my work. I'm so much better off now than I was when I came here.

I just sent my daughter off to buy her temple clothes as she is going through the temple on Tuesday. I am paying for her temple clothes. I've come a long, long way. I have to let her live her life as she sees fit.

But there are still those times where I think what? There are moments, but very few. I live in sin, have a boyfriend of 12 years, my husband and I have been "separated" for over 20 years, but not divorced. I encourage people to smoke on my front porch. I go to the liquor store just for kicks. I don't drink much, myself, but I enjoy going there as it was banned for so long. I just don't care anymore. I'm friends with my neighbors. The bishop lives next door (for some reason the bishops in this ward are always either my next door neighbors or good friends).

I'm so much more at peace with myself. You will find it. Don't be in a big hurry. It will happen in its own time.

Oh, about 10-1/2 years ago, I was talking to my therapist about not being able to stop wearing my garments. He is the one who sent me HERE to read about wearing garments. I laughed until I cried when I read about garments and quit wearing them. I was also afraid to say my temple name. My boyfriend lived in CO at the time and I live in Utah. When I told him the name on IM, he asked me if I had been struck my lightning. Even my TBM daughter knows my temple name. LUCY LUCY LUCY LUCY LUCY LUCY LUCY LUCY

Thanks to summer, I know what my daughter's new name will be before she does when she goes through next week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2017 05:37PM by cl2.

You didn't get into the LDS church overnight and you can't get it out of your head overnight either.

Brainwashing can't just be undone. You need to start from where you are now and move forward by identifying the thoughts, ideas, and patterns in your head that are related to the LDS church and get rid of the ones you don't want by replacing them with ones you do want. How long it takes will really depends on how hard you work on it. You need to build a new life without the LDS church at its center.

Yes I do I need a life that has something good at the center I'm still kinda dead these days the fact that I'm still very much surrounded by Mormons depresses the hell out of me they just won't die or give up they are everywhere like cockroaches.

I am a nevermo but you already said that you recognize that you're better than you were. Of course, it is different for everybody and there is no 'set time'. You have been given some great suggestions, and much encouragement, from others in this thread. Just keep at it but don't expect that one day..... POOF.....it will all disappear from your mind, anymore than memories of our entire childhoods or of our lives up until the present time can just disappear. It is a process and it seems to me that you are well on your way. Best wishes to you as you continue to 'deprogram' yourself from LDS, Inc. :


P.S. Thanks for using some punctuation in this post ;)

Haha I'm trying to be more aware of English class in my head.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like the subliminal thoughts and ingrained
> indoctrination and all the repetitive hymns,
> scriptures, weekly routines like fhe,conference
> twice a year tithing settlement, I mean ALL
> brainwashing how long does it take to deprogram
> all that nonsense, even the dream of the celestial
> kingdom nonsensense. I know it takes more than 8
> months but I'm guessing its longer for people that
> have been in there for like 40 years. I'm curious
> cause I want this deprogramming to hurry up and be
> done with so I'm not such an idiot in normal
> society and I can live a real life and not prepare
> for a second coming or a celestial kingdom
> anymore.


Takes effort, yes, but the more effort, the faster it can be removed. It's up to you. Some people can change it and remove it quickly.

Gotcha you have any ideas what speeds the process along quicker? Does it have to do with talking about things more or venting things out more or what?

I'd recommend a change of environment, if that's possible. That worked for me, but it could be an extreme change for some people.

Surround yourself with normal human beings as much as possible. Don't necessarily cut the Mormons out of your life completely, but limit the influence they have in your social life if you feel they are detrimental.

these are good ideas, iwenttothewoods.

New activities and interests, friends etc. are beneficial. For me personally, there were times when I needed to talk and vent, but the one thing that helped me the most was simply time taken on a regular basis (daily for me) for quiet reflection on what had happened, how had it happened (the process), and asking myself what can I do about it, and what did I really want out of my life, if I removed all consideration of other peoples' and societies expectations and demands for me? This is what helped me see my own reality, and my own role in shaping it going forward.

The faster you can build a genuinely fulfilling, honest future, the faster the old paradigms will melt away.

Gotcha I still feel like my mind is still a mess being cleared out or something.

yeh I hear ya, there is sorta the "folding the laundry" stage, where you just have to relax within and observe the mess, and start the sorting process, making neat piles and then putting them away in your clothes drawers. Over time you will discover the items that mean the most to you, and you will understand the process of your own mind better. Items of clothing that were given to you by others may be best discarded and hauled to DI, and other items that are yours alone and precious, should be placed carefully in valued drawers for future wear and use. :)

Without getting OCD about it, there is value in the calm sorting process, which brings quiet understanding of process and events that led to your "false conditioning" by the church and other members. But the eventual result should be to find your own personal values and genuine desires and choices, and to build from there going forward. It's a whole new world of infinite possibilities, for you!

It definitely helped that I have been removed from almost any reminders of my Mormon life.

I am no longer triggered by hymns and other Mormon reminders. It took about 2 years for that to subside. It took me about 1 year for the guilt over normal human behavior.

For reference, I was HARDCORE BIC but left at 17, and came to college as a non-Mo. The deprogramming was easily shed, probably because I was young when I left.

I truly feel for all you guys who've spent most your adult life in TSCC. I can't imagine how hard it has got to be to shed that, especially if you have family entrenched in it.

You've got this, OP!!! I'd guess that the programming will lose itself in about 3-4 years after leaving.

I was BIC until I was 17 as well but returned at 29 then left at 32 I still feel there are things deep in me from before 17 that I can not get rid of.

Hopefully sooner

The conditioning lives long in the memory. Hymns, images, word patterns, and something intangible that's had to define. It is something well learned, and that's all it is now for me - no attachment is left. But of course many of the church's doctrines change or lose almost all emphasis as the decades roll by and for me these changes are further confirmation that it always was just all bs.

Usually somewhere between 10 minutes/ 2 weeks to 108 years. Sometimes you just need to get it out and play around, get it dirty again. It varies per individual: we all have different brains, dreams, needs, experiences, circumstances, etc. It's about creating different patterns, rituals, thoughts, etc. You tend to think-experience what your patterns are. Do different things; meet different people; have different dreams, experiences, environments...

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/arloguthrie/alicesrestaurantmassacree.html

I have the above lyrics memorized, and have known them for decades. It was fun and interesting to me. Not so for the mormon tread mill.

I was mormon for 50 years and never made an effort to memorize the temple stuff that they insisted I know, but wouldn't give me a script. I also never made any effort to memorize the articles of faith and all the scriptures thrown at me in Seminary. It just seemed like a waste of energy to me. Boring and not interesting. Pointless. Apparently the temple ritual isn't that important to know if you can't study it. When I was younger, the nearest temple was 3 states away. I went there to get married, and that was it for another 18 years or so. By the time I went back, a lot had changed. The only thing that remained the same was that my fake name was still the same. Martha.

There were plenty of people who tried to make me feel like I was a failure for not pounding all that crap into my brain. In hind sight, i'm so glad I don't have that junk running like a bad movies script through my mind. I didn't escape totally unscathed, but at least I don't have repetitive rituals and scriptures running through my mind.

Yes I feel I might be lucky having never done the temple rituals like a lot of people here but I feel I paid heavy costs to avoid it through self harm. But that's crazy that they wouldn't let you learn the tokens and symbols or memorize what you say.

Only in hell can we be absolutely certain that we are safe from the lies of Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSkjBz2bxLk

For most, I think, the best "beliefs-diet supplement" would be doctrinal- a formula which it appears hardly anyone has! It is a little like having a microchip implant in one's logic brain circuits! Joseph Smith did not have any divine ordination to restore the "True Church Of Jesus Christ" at all- The Doctrine And Covenants is material channeled from a certain Fallen Angel; Fallen Angels were behing the First Vision, the Restoration Of The Priesthood Vision, etc.- no angel ever appeared to Smith nor any of those, only certain negative, deceptive fallen ones. Whatever his motives were, it would have been better had he not passed off this material and these visions- maybe he thought americans weren't worthy of any less scam?! I believe The Book Of Mormon is an authentic account- I do not practice that religion, though. Some wanted to go over to Paganism, an equally legitimate religion...

FallenCountryManoevers - I could not make sense of your post. It is incoherent at best. The Book of Mormon is an authentic hoax.

I can't make sense of it either good call.

As long as you let it.

It's about change. Whatever tscc does, you do the opposite. Actually, you do what you want/ what is right/ natural and tscc does the opposite.

You've got to forget it. Make new pathways. Lead, rather than following!

According to http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brainwashing.htm we learn that Brainwashing is often referred to as thought reform and falls into the sphere of "social influence". Social influence happens every minute of every day. It's the collection of ways in which people can change other people's attitudes, beliefs and behaviors. For instance, the compliance method aims to produce a change in a person's behavior and is not concerned with his attitudes or beliefs. It's the "Just do it" approach. In Church I have never learned that we were being brainwashed and what a silly idea you suggest that this ever happened.

Growing up in the Church was glorious. I learned that my thoughts/actions were under very sophisticated 24/7 surveillance by our loving Lord and his angels in heaven. Thus I learned to reform my thoughts to the Lord's way of thinking (i.e. follow my local leaders who have all power over our lives for good reasons). Then between all the activities for the youth and the great social influences like F&T meeting I got even more enjoined into the glorious gospel. This helped reinforce in me that every minute of every day that Heavenly Father was doing surveillance so I learned to be even more compliant. It is thanks to the inspired Correlation program that me and many others were saved from slipping through the cracks because of this program's collection of ways in which the leaders could change the attitudes, beliefs and behaviors of the youth and other members. The first law of heaven is Obedience which wonderfully reminds us that we must be compliant and this helps produce a change in a member's behavior first and foremost with less emphasis on their attitudes and beliefs. Spencer W. Kimball the great prophet had a motto of "Do It" which is the approach we were to take.

I really can't consider your brainwashing claim seriously because such an idea hasn't been approved by the Brethren. If I wasted my time on such ideas then I might commit the grievous sin of DOUBT and I don't want Heavenly Father to catch me spending an iota of time on any Doubt. Hopefully this helps better explain how open-minded TBM's are :)

Get out of here and save your energy for something else TBM.

Bits and pieces will be with you forever. As I type this I'm sitting with my wife as she goes through a traumatic dental procedure. I keep saying little prayers and have even been tempted to lay hands on her and give her a priesthood blessing. I have these thoughts and feelings despite being out two years and not believing for more than five years. It's ingrained in us. The trick is to recognize it for what it is and live life to the fullest.

Mormonism hijacks nearly every normally natural spiritual aspect of waking life but that doesn't mean we can't use our instinct when doing perfectly natural things like healing, praying, blessing, etc.

We (both women and men) have the power within us, naturally, to communicate peace, comfort, bliss (and blessings), love, harmony and positive vibes, without any fear of the power abiding within us, that hasn't left or diminished since joining or undoing Mormonism.

TSCC can't take away our power. It is here to stay. There is nothing unreal or pretentious with putting your hands on someone you love - or care about - and letting the power move back and forth between you, naturally, with or without thinking or saying a word or having a thought or prayer.

I've experienced many times in multiple cultures across the world people laying their hands on someone for the purpose of healing. Look it us. It is common and very effective. Use your instinct/ intention.

Maryanne Williamson famously said (and Nelson Mandela often gets quoted as saying, in his popular and outstanding speech), [I'll paraphrase], "... It is not our smallness we are afraid of, It is our power!...". If we don't use our power, or instinct, we may lose it. It's fine to experiment. It's normal to touch someone and feel that power moving through us. Practice



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2017 09:46AM by readwrite.