Most people who have left TSCC have done so for intellectual reasons. In other words, they have put on their thinking caps, and reasoned themselves out of TSCC.

Yet, many who leave, end up adopting other religious beliefs, such as Judaism, or some other form of Christianity. In my opinion, after careful inquiry, the claims of God and Jesus Christ, are just as specious as the claims of Joseph Smith.

It is very difficult and painful to give up the idea of eternal progression and families forever.

It can be equally difficult and painful to give up the idea of a Godless universe.

Do any of you ExMos struggle with using the same critical thinking skills that resulted in you leaving TSCC, in examining the existence of God or other religious beliefs?

*** This is not meant as a criticism of anyone's current or future beliefs. My personal beliefs may be the most flawed of all.

I dont believe in anything. I dont trust religion. However, sometimes I let my spirituality wander, and I dont worry about "critical thinking" when I do because thats not the point of the exercise anyway.

Maybe others enjoy the communities religion offers. Or maybe it helps them have hope that they wont cease to exist one day. Some of that psychology trumps logic I suppose.

The mormon church also happens to be very demanding and consuming, enough to get people to uproot themselves, but some people still feel the drive to search for a belief system.

Nonsequiter:

Just curious - did you intentionally spell nonsequiter, instead of non sequitur, as a play on words?

I'm with you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2017 12:11AM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

Bull $#!%... I suggest you examine your motives more closely (Google "Johari Window" if you need a bit of work on open-mindedness); your comments are a textbook example of LDS passive-aggressiveness.

And yes, your own beliefs in that area are definitely flawed... The "hangover" from Mormonism is the "dichotomous thinking"--i.e. "black-and-white"--and shedding that "cognitive paradigm" can take years.

Just as example, my father, in his 80's, gave the church the heave-ho when he was 20, and he's still especially prone to that sort of thinking. I would've stayed stuck in the same trap except for my addiction issues, and I had the advantage of having having to "change via shedding old paradigms and thinking methods" or remaining stuck. I wasn't joking when I said I was a "technical Nevermo but you'd never know it from my issues in therapy."

One powerful element in this board's dynamics is the opportunity it offers folks to examine and shed their anger. Transferring it to an attack on others' spiritual beliefs is simply "switching tyrannical masters."

/zen voice off

SL:

I hope I made it clear that my beliefs may be more flawed than anyone's.

After I dismissed my belief in TSCC, I had an equally difficult time using my new critical thinking skills in analyzing my other beliefs.

I am simply inquiring whether others had the same challenges that I did.

Cheers

For the record, it can take much less logical reasoning to reject the church's claims than it does to reject God altogether.

No doubt.

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most people who have left TSCC have done so for
> intellectual reasons.

I don't think it takes 'intellectual reasons' to stop believing in the cult.

even if we take your comment as read, with the widest possible context of 'intellectual reasons', then finding out the truth about the cult, is not equivalent to having a deep intellectual examination of theology in general


> Yet, many who leave, end up adopting other
> religious beliefs,

or going back to a cultural belief (the USA and other western nations tend to be 'culturally' christian, even of they are not 'christian nations')

when I left the cult, originally, I would have called myself 'a christian'


> such as Judaism,

do many people become jews? In general? let alone specifically when they leave the cult?


> In my opinion, after careful
> inquiry, the claims of God and Jesus Christ, are
> just as specious as the claims of Joseph Smith.
>

and there's the rub ------- "careful enquiry"
this often takes time and a level of emotional maturity which is not manifest directly after you have just left a deeply controlling cult like the morg

> It is very difficult and painful to give up the
> idea of eternal progression and families forever.
>
>
> It can be equally difficult and painful to give up
> the idea of a Godless universe.
>

and you've answered your own question and reinforced my point, above

I think that some people just need some kind of religion or spirituality in their lives to function. Sad but true. Some people just can't face the logical consequences of atheism, like oblivion after death, or the idea that bad people who die don't get punished, or that we'll never see loved ones again when they die. Much as I hate to admit it, religion gives people hope -- even if it is an illusion. And the fact that we cannot prove religion WRONG is all that some people need to hold onto it, because it COULD be true, even if it's extremely unlikely.

There's also the peer pressure; it's still very taboo for some people to not believe in any gods or religions, especially in a fundamentalist culture like Mormonism. I'd argue that atheists are still among the most hated and discriminated-against groups in the U.S. In many states we can't even hold public office because we can't take the silly "oaths" about God. Studies have shown that people are least likely to vote for an atheist than any other minority group. So in many cases it's just easier to give in to the socially-accepted insanity that is religion.

It's funny that some mention "dichotomous" thinking when that's exactly what most religions encourage. I learned long ago that absolutely nothing is black and white, because morality is entirely relative and there are always extenuating circumstances. Just realize that theists hold their beliefs to be absolute and unquestionable, so just asking a question like yours somehow turns into a direct attack when it's anything but. Be prepared for an onslaught of angry theists, though! ;)

Thank you Billions:

When Socrates was on trial and subsequently sentenced to death, he famously said, "The unexamined life is not worth living".

He wasn't insulting anyone, he was simply expressing his view that there is only purpose and meaning in life by self examination.

I hope my comments have propelled some of us to continue the self examination some of us used in leaving the faith, to using in life after leaving the faith.

I get what you are asking. But since you invoke "critical thinking" and your perceived lack of it in others, let's look at how you begin:

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most people who have left TSCC have done so for
> intellectual reasons. In other words, they have
> put on their thinking caps, and reasoned
> themselves out of TSCC.

Is the declarative "strength" here justified? Are you sure about this? What is your evidence? Might you be guessing?

My guess is that you are wrong. I'd bet that most who leave LDSinc do so for lifestyle reasons, cultural reasons, emotional reasons, other reasons, and not many for "reason" reasons.

There is a self-selection problem with RfM. Most who leave don't come here.

Human

Human:

I stand corrected. I should have addressed this post to those who left the Church for intellectual reasons, issues with doctrine, etc. That group was my intended audience.

I have never suggested that leaving for any other reason is more or less justified.

Everyone needs to smile and chill out.

Where are the statistics that support your statement?

Yet Again: Please see above response.

I agree with others on this, not the OP.

We leave for different reasons, not all the same. By and large the logical fallacies identify themselves eventually. For me, they came after the fact, not before.

As for still believing in something, that takes great faith and belief to be able to do that in my higher power. I have such faith that you lack. So, no, that isn't because of a lack of critical reasoning. It's enhanced critical reasoning that I believe.

As for my being Jewish, I was born a Jew who didn't fully understand that until my daughter and I explored our Jewish roots together. We have always been Jewish, and Mormon simultaneously. It didn't require we convert.

It's a much deeper religion and faith than Mormonism is. The spiritual vacuum I used to feel as a Mormon I haven't felt since I've been participating in Jewish services. It speaks to my soul, my heart, my mind, ie, intellect all at the same time. I could never say that about Mormonism. With that I felt as though I was starving spiritually, and there was a hole in my center of being that's hard to describe, but frighteningly real. I knew something wasn't right as a practicing Mormon. Just didn't know what until I came to understand it is all a sham. Now it makes sense why I felt so empty on the inside as a Mormon. I haven't felt that way since I left, including other denominations my family and I have been to besides Judaism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 04:35PM by Amyjo.

I disagree I lost many 'critical thinking skills'! However, I did leave the church because the 'lies' and 'short comings' were 'obvious once someone pointed them out to me and I had a chance to evaluate them on a 'logical' and 'spiritual' basis.

However, some of us have had and continue to have 'spiritual experiences' not 'feeling only experiences' where it is highly likely/very probable there is a God, after life, etc. etc.

I have not found any 'only true church' or 'completely true religion' or I would join. I do not fault anyone joining something that is not 'completely true' for 'community, etc.'.

However, I consider myself very 'spiritual and open' and would not make any major decision or take any significant action without attempting some kind of 'spiritual confirmation'.

Spiritist:

I hope you, Amyjo, and others have just as much tolerance and respect for my atheistic leanings as I do for your beliefs in spirits, afterlife, etc.

You're in good company here.

No worries.

We each seem to be on differing trajectories in terms of our spirituality or life journey. That's something as ex-Mormons we're allowed to explore where you weren't before as a Mormon. It was a black and white religion ie, all or nothing.

The world isn't really like that. Like Gatorman noted, there's much more gray in the in between than the cookie mold we were expected to conform to before.

I have 'respect' for others beliefs because there are 'few' beliefs (God/no god, after life/nothing, etc.) that can be proven scientifically.

People can 'experience' things and that is what I attempt to do on both this and 'spiritual' boards is to encourage meditation, etc. ------ various types to gain experience and then decide for yourself what any 'experience' means or if it has value in your life.

Would have to disagree with OP. My critical skills and reasoning were sharpened during the exit and have continued. What has become most obvious is that the world is much grayer than I believed as a member of the church...not passing judgement doesn't mean you've lost critical thinking

Gatorman
One man's ceiling is another man's floor

I appreciate the response Gatorman. No one has said that critical thinking skills were more or less important than emotions or other experiences that people might have.

I am old enough to really know who James Dean was and I don't live East of Eden....your posts are important. Keep stimulating us

Gatorman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 05:33PM by gatorman.

James Dean and me share the same dob. Thankfully I've outlived him by several decades, and hope to keep on ticking for several more.

He was a shining star, a meteorite, so said his astrology chart for his personal zodiac.

That he was. :)

I haven't joined or attended another church. I wouldn't say that I no longer believe in a God, or Gods, or Jesus Christ or not, but I don't think about it much... like it's run its course in my life. Whenever I come across something religion related on the Internet (quoted Bible passage, etc), I skim it. It's a bore for me. Sometimes I feel the yearn of community that organized religion brings. As for the spirituality, I may have gone extreme in the other direction.

Loss of community is usually significant. I think this Board helps replace that for many of us.

If we could create something in person called "the community of love", that would be very cool.

hausfrau:

I am envious that you are able to turn off the thinking cap when it comes to God, Gods, or Jesus Christ. I am not wired that way. If anyone has some drug free suggestions I am all in.

I think it involves other factors that override critical thinking.

The justification people give for their religious choices are really no different than the ones Mormons use to justify belief: sheer faith, community, spiritual home, second hand stories from religious holy books, personal experience, the decision to believe without verification, etc.

It usually involves emotions, having answers and a guide for life and identity. For many, religious rituals fulfill human needs in addition to marking rites of passage. Religion is a ready way to express awe of the universe and not have to deal with the concept that maybe there is no one driving the bus.

If someone develops detective skills to discredit Mormonism, I think there has to be a conscious effort not to use them in other areas of life to accept the same type of faith based evidence somewhere else that was rejected for Mormonism. True, some beliefs are more obviously ridiculous than others, but the standards for external verification remain the same.

With Mormonism, we had the luxury of seeing the birth and evolution of the religion in just a couple hundred years. This makes it easier to deconstruct and see how a religion goes from a cult to a culture. The larger ones have had a couple thousand years so the same pattern is harder to see. This is where world mythology study helps with understanding the perspective and functions of religion, in culture after culture.

I think a great deal of exMormons go on to another religions. They are not going to hang around here (with a few exceptions) because they recognize that unfounded claims will be examined. If they don't want to defend believing whichever flavor of faith-belief they want, they probably avoid confrontational environments where consistency in applying reasoning is valued.

Dagny:

Excellent post, especially the analogy of 200 years of Mormonism vs 2000 years and more, for other religions.

+1 Well stated Dagny. Per usual.

I think the OP came to the conclusion that people abandon the LDS church because the facts and reasoning clearly lead to the conclusion that it is false.

However, just because they leave due to sufficient reason, does not mean that everyone then drops "faith" and "emotion" and adopt a purely "reasonable" approach to analyzing all claims. Some still accept that faith and feelings (rightly or wrongly) are still evidence and justification for their beliefs.

HH =)

I addressed this on another thread.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1956758,1956758#msg-1956758

You are assuming that other Christians (and other religions) approach their faith in the same manner that Mormons do. This would be a mistake.

Many other religions are more liberal and open. They are not literalists and not as prone to black and white thinking. Therefore you cant find the same smoking guns. Being unlikely or requiring the intervention of God isnt the same as absolutely impossible if you beleive in a higher power. For instance if a religion believes Adam and eve are metahorical and accept evolution, you cant disprove them by saying that story cant be true .Mainstream churches and.liberal Jews to not take the Bible as literal science or history. They are well aware that there is a lot of myth in there.They also understand metaphor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 05:30PM by bona dea.

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yet, many who leave, end up adopting other
> religious beliefs, such as Judaism...

[Caveat: I am a nevermo.]

What you have said here (and, evidently, what you are conceptualizing about people-in-general who convert to Judaism) is misleading re: conversion to Judaism.

It is my observation (based on thinking about this beginning when I was in elementary school) that most people who choose to become Jews are not doing this because of religious reasons.

SOME are...

...in my conversion-to-Judaism class (about a hundred of us in all, and we spanned the spectrum of chronological ages) there were probably about 20% or so of us who had made a systematic study of different religions, had often tried out a few different belief systems along the way (different Christian denominations, but also, often, a number of explorations into religions like Buddhism or Hinduism or New Age-oriented Native American religions, etc.), and had come to the conclusion that the Jewish religion was the best fit for them.

Everyone else was there for some permutation of becoming a Jew (which requires a Jewish legal process, based on Jewish "religious" law) in order to join the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion was part of the total "package."

In other words, most people become Jews for reasons OTHER than the Jewish religion. This has always been true, going back to the first "official" convert to Judaism: Ruth, in the Old Testament. [Regardless of whether there ever was an actual human being named "Ruth," this biblical character was written as the symbol of ALL non-Jews who had, up to that time, joined to Jewish people---and her conversion had little or nothing to do with the Jewish RELIGION, it was all about joining the Jewish people and adopting Jewish culture (of which the Jewish religion is a part) ]

In my conversion class we had many people (from all different kinds of religious backgrounds) who just "always" knew that they "were" Jews---except that they were NOT. (This first group includes me.)

There were a number of people who were the offspring of Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers (which means that, according to Jewish law, they were NOT Jews), and most of these had actually been raised Jewish in many different ways. They were "converting" to regularize their Jewish status so they would then be Jews according to Jewish law.

There were another group of people who were in Jewish/non-Jewish couples and who wanted both members of the couple to be Jewish (especially if the non-Jew was a female, which is actually the most common situation in Jewish/non-Jewish relationships for a wide variety of reasons, some of them coming directly from American culture). Going back generations, many non-Jewish American girls were raised by their non-Jewish female relatives (in particular) to believe that Jewish husbands were among the very best: they tended to be kind and loving and did not beat their wives (or children)...they were usually affluent when compared to the other members of their local communities...they were generally caring and supportive husbands and fathers...and university-level or above educations for their children were a Jewish cultural priority.

We had a few born Jews who wanted to take the class (though they weren't going to convert because they were already Jews) because they had not received Jewish educations when they grew up, and this was the easiest and most organized way to (in thirteen weeks, I think our class was) learn all the things they didn't have the opportunity to learn when they were growing up.

We had one member who wanted to become a Jew so he could be "closer to [his] Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." (He was not allowed to convert; this kind of conversion, where there is an ulterior motive for the conversion, is not allowed under Jewish law.)

And we had one woman (early twenties) who had been raised BIC Mormon, and who was going to lose all of her Mormon family once she converted, and she was crying as she related this story in class. Nevertheless, she went ahead, and she did convert with the rest of us who were actually converting.

Among us: the usual 50% or more who were atheist, or at some place on this general agnostic/atheist/pantheist spectrum. (Lack of belief in God is not a requirement to be a Jew...and in general, lack of "belief" in most anything Jewish is not a requirement to be a Jew. I'm not sure if "most" rabbis are atheists, but certainly a large percentage of them are...even in rabbinical schools.)

Bottom line: SOME people convert to Judaism because of the contents (as it were) of the Jewish religion.

MOST people convert to Judaism because they want to join the Jewish people (there are a large number of people who "just always knew" they "were" Jews...except that they were NOT), OR they want to regularize their Jewish status if their mothers were not Jews...and the "specifics" of what might be termed actual Jewish religion are an "also true" that they do not object to.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 05:44PM by Tevai.

Tevai:

Very thoughtful and interesting post, but I am a little bit confused.

You state that there are a large number of people who "just always knew" that they "were" Jews. What are you saying?

Is this something like Rachel Dolezal, who was born to two white parents, who identifies as black?

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tevai:
>
> Very thoughtful and interesting post, but I am a
> little bit confused.
>
> You state that there are a large number of people
> who "just always knew" that they "were" Jews. What
> are you saying?
>
> Is this something like Rachel Dolezal, who was
> born to two white parents, who identifies as
> black?

I don't know anything about Rachel Dolezal, but it may be either similar, or the same situation.

I don't know of any other way to say it...there are a [relatively] large percentage of people in the general population who---at some point---begin to realize what a Jew "is," and know that it is THEM. I know this not only because of my own conversion class, but because once this topic comes up, either Jews who are strangers to you, or people who know others that this applies to, generally cut into the conversation to say: "Yes! That was me!" or "Yes! That happened to my cousin/uncle/aunt/parent/grandparent/neighbor [whatever]."

The only thing I can liken it to that is generally acknowledged is a kid who always knew or felt that s/he was "different," and then discovers---at some point---that they are gay or transgender...and at THAT instant, "it" all makes sense.

What I am describing about some Jews who are converts to Judaism is a very similar situation. This is not about religion, it is about peoplehood. You just "know" that YOU "are" [somehow] a member of the tribe, even if that appears ridiculous from outside appearances.

What happens next is a hodge-podge of possibilities, depending on WHERE this realization takes place (it generally makes a huge difference whether you live in a place like Los Angeles or New York where there are tons of Jews...OR you live in a place like Omaha---if this realization happens when someone is living in an area of few or no Jews, coming to terms with it can take a very long time).

In places with large numbers of Jews, there are many different ways to explore these feelings in places which would "feel safe": Jewish book/music stores, Jewish delis, or your local Jewish congregations, for example.

Follow Your Heart, which is our local health food store (and which I know for a fact that Alec Baldwin goes to, because he sat at the next table to us once :) ), has free copies of the JEWISH JOURNAL, a local publication, outside the store in the racks, for the taking. Any random copy of the JEWISH JOURNAL, which covers the entire spectrum of Jewish life in Southern California, would give anyone who was interested in Judaism in any way countless leads to Jewish events, like lectures or classes or holiday celebrations, or discussions of current events or classes on just about anything even vaguely related to Jewish life, from learning Hebrew to learning Israeli folk dancing to classes on how to prepare traditional foods for Passover (with your choice of Ashkenazi or Sephardi traditional foods, or maybe even something like Yemenite traditional foods).

It would be much more difficult for many people in other places to get up the courage to attend a Friday night service at their local Reform congregation (which is the least "scariest" possibility most anywhere).

At some point, though, these people generally get enough courage to do SOMETHING...and that leads (much more easily than they could have anticipated) to something else...and from that to something else again, and (even though it may take years) to a one-on-one talk with a rabbi, or to a conversion to Judaism class.

What many people do (especially if they are teenagers or young adults) is something that they generally think THEY invented: they start looking (specifically) for Jews to date and to get romantically involved with. This is, of course, THE least scariest way of all, since you are usually dealing with someone you already "know" to some extent or another.

Many people begin reading novels with Jewish characters and situations, or they seek out Jewish non-fiction books (biographies, histories, etc.)...or they take a class in Hebrew (etc.) at their local community college or whatever.

And for some of these, they really do go on to become Jews.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2017 01:06AM by Tevai.

You might as well wonder why people go to Star Trek conventions. It's obviously all made up. If you were raised on Christianity, it's natural to go along with it even if you know it's mythical. The value of "truth" may be overblown. Ultimately you are inside your head, not someone else. The world in there is one version of truth.

The problem with Mormonism goes much deeper for me. I can readily accept that Hebrew beliefs are ancient and Jewish traditions might be based on many myths but it is their ancient myths. Likewise, Christianity is a part of history with documents dating back.

But what does Mormonism require one to accept? That a book was translated by using a rock and is supposed to be an actual collection of writings of people in ancient America, going back to 600 BC and even further for the Jaradites. It claims that America's indigenous peoples don't have the record in their history because it was kept hidden from them and it is up to the LDS church to give it to them now so they can know their true history. That to me is a pure pile of shit. It is nothing more than someone trying to impose an alternate history on a people who have already been through that with the mound builder garbage of the 19th century.

I don't believe in any religions but I do recognize Jewish faith and Christianity in human history. I cannot recognize Mormonism's version of ancient American history, period.

Mormonism might not seem so crazy 1000 years from now.

Archaeology in just the past few years has shown an entirely different history of ancient America than the Book of Mormon claims. My guess is that in 1000 years there will be even more facts that destroy the Book of Mormon. My opinion is that it is one thing to fabricate a resurrection myth and over time it becomes believed, based on faith. But fabricating a fake history just isn't the same and a faith basis of it just won't hold up to the coming centuries of more discovery.

There is a lot truth to the quote "ignorance is bliss".

As funny and true as this often is, it is never meant as a compliment.

I have known my share of blissfully ignorant Mormons, that's for sure. The ones that I get riled up over are those who know that what they are saying is not true but they say it anyway to try to keep others from leaving. My path out of Mormonism began with FAIR and apologists.

Michaelm:

My path started there as well, including Sunstone and Dialogue.

They start mimicking their professors, the popular things taught in our schools, and just accepting it as fact. They accept what other people teach without really thinking it through with reason. Social think... This is a good example of it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWiZ3iXWwM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0u3-2CGOMQ

Bekah: Are you suggesting believing in God or believing in evolution is an example of social think? Or both?

All I know is the longer I go without any religious system the stranger things become, has anybody experienced a crazy transition from religious to nothing like I have or is it just me?

show me an exmo who has had critical thinking skills and then lost them.

your question is bogus.

I've seen plenty of examples. Many people are quite selective in their reasoning - even myself. I keep finding new areas in my life where I believed in a fantasy. Like the notion that gardening actually saved me money.

Yes, many here believe the church is BS, but then think government is good, despite the fraud, waste and abuse inherent in its programs and wars.

I've been quite fascinated with feminism. Many here rail against the patriarchy that oppresses church women while being blind to the benefits for them. And I've read statements here like, "men are pigs", that go unchallenged.

When you do speak up, often get a personal attack, much like a TBM would if questioning their faith.

Feminism is a religion, as these brilliant women describe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dwsfcrDTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD65wnDGuTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut2VVAW0MwM

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yet, many who leave, end up adopting other
> religious beliefs, such as Judaism, or some other
> form of Christianity. In my opinion, after careful
> inquiry, the claims of God and Jesus Christ, are
> just as specious as the claims of Joseph Smith.
>

I'm intrigued that anyone other than a blind ideologue would suggest these are all in the same category, and that you arrive at that suggestion after some process you describe as "careful inquiry."

You are wise to doubt your personal critical thinking skills, and should perhaps extend your doubts to your ability to conduct "careful inquiry." .

Tall Man:

These were simply examples. My goodness, I will have to be much more careful the next time I post:)

I have some Valium if anyone needs it.

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tall Man:
>
> These were simply examples. My goodness, I will
> have to be much more careful the next time I
> post:)
>
> I have some Valium if anyone needs it.


No valium needed. It's just a bit tiresome that the enlightened ones who decry the scent of bigotry from virtually any direction race to one of the few accepted forms of bigotry that remain: labeling people of faith as some sort of unreasoned, ignorant dolts.

If following a spiritual path helps people to feel better, then why not?

Brigid:

There may be many paths. Who is to say?

The simple question of this post was asking if others, besides myself, have struggled with using the same critical thinking skills that led them out of the Church, once they were out of the Church.

It wasn't meant to be a controversial post.

I believe that you didnt intend to stir things up, but when anyone implies that believers or those with different world views lack critical thinking skills, that is bound to happen. There are highly educated critical thinkers who are religious and there are numbskulls who are atheists. Before the atheists start screaming, I did not say that there are not brilliant atheists-just that simply not believing doesnt mean you are a great thinker. Conversly, believing doesnt mean you have no critical thinking skills.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 09:26PM by bona dea.

Thank you bona:

I was asking a very narrow question. I even added an asterisk in my original post with an explanation. I assumed people would read that - probably some did.

Yes, Ijust noticed. That helped

I am a nevermo so I don't have firsthand knowledge of the thinking skills that led many ex-mos out of tscc. I do feel qualified, however, to comment on the topic of your OP. If I were an exmo, I would have taken even more of an exception to your comment.

You post on an exmo board with a question indicating that at least many, if not all, of the regulars on this board have no critical thinking skills! On the contrary, I have come to know, through their posts, many on this board who have not only critical thinking skills but the ability to express those ideas brilliantly.

I wasn't talking about the people on this Board. Please read my original and asterisk comment.

The fact is that there are believers on this board.If people read the original comment before you edited it, they probably arent aware of the addition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 11:59PM by bona dea.

I never edited my original post or comment.

Well its NOT ALL. ;)