I don’t remember reading anything in scriptures that compels any Christian to pay tithing to some man or church. It seems I remember some Jewish scripture in Old Testament Judaism that compels Jews to pay tithings-but to pay them directly to God. What scripture actually compels people to pay other people money? If a person actually believes the scriptures, why can’t they just pay God themselves? Where does it say an intermediary person to do it for you is compulsory?

Richard Pryor used to joke about how God could do anything except manage money. Apparently for that, he has to rely on fallible humans.

Malachi 3 talks about tithes and offerings. This was paid to the Levites. The BoM doesn't talk about tithing. D&C does, but tithing in TSCC has changed since it was first introduced.

THE BOOK OF MORMON
CHAPTER 8
32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be achurches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.

That's the beauty of "modern day revelation." They can say anything they want, including "If you don't pay tithing you can't have a forever family."

It's a brilliant strategy.

I pay tithing directly to God. I write out a check every month for several thousand dollars, made out payable to God, and then burn it on the altar in my back yard, as a sacrifice.

What a waste of a check.

As I understand it, the old testament tithe (as featured in Malachi) was like an Income tax paid to the Theocratic Government of the Israelites made up of Priests. Paid in animals and farmed produce as well as cash?

The Israelites had some kind of Theocracy where religion and state rule were the same thing.

I think when The Romans ruled over them it caused a problem with Roman Tax. It sounds like they were being taxed twice perhaps and that's why they grumbled at Rome primarily.

If anyone wants to amend or expand further, that would be great.

I remember testimonies of Tithing being made in my local ward and it included to ensure being with family (fellow TBM) forever and insurance against fire. Of course, overpaid income tax being miraculously returned and other similar nonsenses were attributed to blessings of tithe.

I look back and wonder how I managed to keep a straight face and not laugh to myself. It wasn't easy a lot of the time. lol

PS I remember hearing the phrase would man rob God many times when they were being quoted Malachi. Yet Ironically it's the Mormon Corp robbing them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2017 05:43PM by Zeezromp.

Tithing was a type of property tax. The Levites weren't allotted any land, so the tithes went to them. Wages or any cash earnings were NOT tithed (neither were fish), although your agricultural stuff could be sold for money to make it easier to transport to the temple. Jesus, being a tradesman, didn't owe tithing. Peter, as a fisherman, didn't either.

This is why you see a few instances of tithes being mentioned in the NT. Even if a Jew was converted to Christianity, if they were still living on ancestral tribal land, and they were farming or ranching on it, they owed tithes to the temple.

Even the most observant Orthodox Jews today don't/can't practice tithing because there is no temple to deliver it to. Even if there were a temple, Jews outside of Israel would still not owe it because they're not living on tribal land.

and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.

You can buy anything with money...see...Lucifer was right..

I ran across the French word for tithe the other day. I am sure that it had never come up for me before, because I would surely have remembered it

Tithe: dîme

Re: Judaism...

There is an underlying feeling among Jews that those who are engaged in "religious" (which frequently means: religious/Jewishly-political) employment, are (as a matter of justice) due a level of compensation which will allow them to support themselves, their spouses, and their progeny in locally-"decent" fashion.

After the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E., there were a number of "local" ways (in other words: not necessarily the "same" way in the Iberian peninsula, as was true at that same time in Eastern Europe) devised to pay those who deserved wages for their work.

When Jews began immigrating to North America, a congregational system was instituted whereby "memberships"-with-
dues served this purpose. [*] (Depending on your family status---individual...or individual plus spouse...or individual plus spouse plus [number of] offspring, each of a certain minimum age...or widow or widower, etc.---there was an agreed-on, set amount to be paid either annually, or quarterly, or monthly; with, for those who were not members, another amount to be paid for "tickets" to once-a-year High Holy Day services, for those who were not actually members of that congregation. If you joined a congregation which owned real estate such as a synagogue building, part of those dues were for a Building Fund...but you can choose a congregation that (instead) rents space for Friday night services, High Holy Days services, etc., and the membership dues for those, non-real-estate-owning, congregations, are RADICALLY reduced because there are no owned real estate costs to be paid.)

P.S. There are, most everywhere, a number of ways to go to High Holy Day services at little or no cost...for example: Hillel services on college and university campuses, and there are other options as well, where High Holy Days services are open to anyone who wants to attend, at no charge.

In addition: every congregation I am aware of offers no-charge, or a very little, "symbolic," charge High Holy Day tickets to those who cannot afford to pay for them.

One way or another, everyone who wants to go to High Holy Day services CAN, regardless of any other "also true."

For members of the congregation, the cost of High Holy Days tickets is included in the annual membership fee, so all of members of the temple get High Holy Days tickets without any additional charge.

In many countries (such as in Europe), all taxpayers (regardless of what religion they are) have to pay a certain percentage, or a set amount, to the government as an annual "religious" tax, and this is distributed in a legally-defined way to each of the religions in that country, so Jews don't have to buy congregational memberships in those countries.

In Israel, ALL synagogues APPROVED BY THE CHIEF RABBINATE (there are two Chief Rabbis: one for Ashkenazi Jews, and one for Sephardi Jews), are free, since all expenses are paid by the Israeli government out of government funds (and, I believe, all approved-by-the-Chief-Rabbinate rabbis are technically employees of the State of Israel).

HOWEVER, if (in Israel) you are Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Jewish Renewal, Secular Humanist Jewish, or any other Jewish movement that is NOT approved by "the" Chief Rabbinate, it is back to American-style, congregational membership mode, because this is the only way to pay the employees of the shul (includes the rabbi, the cantor, office staff if necessary, teachers for that shul's Hebrew school, janitorial staff, etc.), and (if necessary) rent facilities where services can be held. (Some non-Orthodox shuls in Israel are given guest status on sites appropriate for services, such as non-Orthodox yeshivot.)

Since at least 70 C.E. (when the Temple was destroyed) I have never heard of Jewish tithing in any age or era, or anyplace on the planet. Doesn't mean it never happened because it might have, but if so, I never heard of it.

[*] Jews are forbidden by Jewish law to "touch" money on Shabbat or on most of the other Jewish holidays, so the collection plate model, which works for Catholics and Protestants, doesn't work for Jews. If a Jew is not allowed to "touch" money on Shabbat (etc.), then that sum of money has to be paid at another time which is NOT Shabbat (or one of the other, money forbidden, holy days).



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 12:18PM by Tevai.

The tithing was a simple flat rate income tax. Because it fell hardest, in effect, on the poor, there was the practice of jubilee years in which property reverted back to the original owners. Today most of us realize that an increasing portion of all property is falling into the hands of the rich. The need is to have portions taken on death or on gifts, along with a mildly progressive income taxation.

rhgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today most of us realize that an increasing
> portion of all property is falling into the hands
> of the rich. The need is to have portions taken on
> death or on gifts, along with a mildly progressive
> income taxation.

I know where about 50% of every penny I make goes: to local, state, and federal government. Serfdom, which contemporary US taxation is turning into, is a lot of things, but it sure as hell isn't progress.

Where does it say to pay taxes?

Godzilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where does it say to pay taxes?

Render unto Caesar.

rhgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Render unto Caesar.

Where is Caesar?

To paraphrase: "... if we're going to make it, the sheeple MUST PAY TITHING !!!! ..."

The top 15 geezers who haven't had a new idea among themselves for the last 3 decades took note ... and many a GC talk and Stake Presidency directive has been issued with TITHE in mind.

Oh the Lard works in mysterious ways !!!

The LDS church does cite the line in Malachi to demand 10% of a member's income. However, it ignores this advice from Paul--

2 Cor 9:7


7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. ESV version.

I am never compelled in my church to make a donation. I am also provided twice a year with a detailed budget showing congregational incomes and expenditures. Each week in the worship bulletin there's a statement of income compared to budget. I typically give about 3% of my income to my congregation. There are several other non-religious organization I give to to support members in my broader community. I would imagine the above is typical for most mainline church goers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 06:42PM by BYU Boner.

I quite agree with OP. There's too much focus on fleecing the flock, especially with those tv evangalists. That Joyce Meyers and her cronies, Binny Hinn, Rod Parsley and others. They give you a sound bite of supposed wisdom, that is meant to stroke your ego (because everyone is a special snowflake these days) and then they cut right into the "give me money line". It's all so absurd. yet America must be paying or they wouldn't be on the air.

Who should people be paying tithing to? Poster Spring has an insightful perspective, she reportedly pays 50% in taxes. That goes to support people who aren't working for whatever reason, that goes to support infrastructure, that goes to support military, public schools for kids, the societal cancer we call higher education universities administration and friends.

I, like Spring(), pay far more than 10% and it goes to uncle Sam in the form of taxes.

On the TITHING slip... (and fall)...




And

From the [lds] church's lips in 'GENERIC CONFERENCE', the 'Outsign', they LDS 'spiderweb-sites', mormon strictures, 'missing-aries' and from the pulpits, "seminaries", 'home preachers', and class[less]rooms the world over.

M@t