So last year, I wrote about feeling a lot of trepidation because my child's school program has a yearly event that was being held for the first time in an LDS building. (It had previously been held in other buildings around town; last year was the first year in an LDS church building.)

I didn't know what to expect from the event, since I had never heard of secular events being held in a Mormon church building. And, it turns out that the handbook actually specifies that only church events are supposed to be held in church buildings. So I spent quite a bit of time worrying about how the hosts might have to make the event conform to the handbook rules in order for them to use the building.

Last year, it turned out fine, other than the lack of coffee and tea, lol. I was very relieved.

This year, the event will be held in the Mormon church building again. Only this time, in every single communication about it, they are stressing that girls must not wear short skirts or dresses. They used a couple flimsy excuses and seem to have settled on "dress nicely, no short skirts ladies!!" As if a short skirt is not "nice". Ugh. They can't come right out and say they want people to conform to their church dress codes, so they are trying to subtly shame the female participants into conforming. It obviously matters quite a lot to them, since they have stressed "no short skirts" without fail in every communication about the event.

I can tell you that a good number of those ladies would have to buy a new outfit just for this school event since I doubt they even own a dress that falls below the knee. If a dress meets the school dress code, it should be fine to wear to a school event.

It just repulses me that the Mormons are trying to make everyone else accommodate them by slowly imposing more "rules" on people. I get it that the event is being held in their building. And in any other case, I would have no problem with respecting the wishes of a host. But unfortunately, I know how Mormons work. "Come use our building! No strings! We just can't serve coffee or tea" morphs into "Come use our building! We just can't serve coffee or tea, and by the way this time you have to look a certain way. No strings!" Ugh.

Thanks for letting me vent here.

Can't you share your concerns with the directors of the school program? It might impel them to push back on the church to some extent. At least, it will raise their awareness of how the church operates, and to be on the lookout for future restrictions.

Next time they'll slip the Plan of Salvation in while they have a captive audience, like they do at funerals.

The thing I was most worried about last year was that they may try to casually pass off a food blessing as a tradition or something that we could choose to participate in. (Especially after learning that the church buildings are to be used only for church events- I was really worried about what they might do to turn this school event into something that meets "church event" requirements.) I'm prepared to walk out if anything churchy goes on.

This is a very important teaching opportunity. Please don't brush it off.

I suggest that you alert the Mormons in your area, and at the COB, to this "unholy" use of church property. Because your daughter could suffer ramifications, you should probably be anonymous. Post signs: Coffee at the [LDS building] - Come join us!

I also suggest that if you have no choice in going, that you and other like-minded individuals show up with your Starbucks and Coke in hand, since they provided none at the prior year's event.

They agreed to host, for a fee I might add, an event open to and paid for, by non-members. You are indirectly paying to rent a space, against their own rules. Coffee, tea and cola are not illegal substances.

I would not raise a huge stink, neither would I conform to LDS rules of behavior.

It could be tricky because of fallout to your daughter, but you can figure this out - how to make it known that active "sinning" and porn shoulders intend to show up.

It's only going to get worse each year if not stopped. That's the nature of conditioning. You, and your daughter, are being conditioned to accept their rules. Don't. Show her how it's done. The event will pass. What you teach your daughter could last a lifetime. Human conditioning, properly done, is insidious.

For whom - and what - do you want your daughter to learn respect?

Good points. I have told my child to wear whatever is comfortable and appropriate for any school event of this nature, regardless of LDS rules.

I would make a complaint to the school administrators, making sure that they are aware that Mormon church standards are being imposed on public school students. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And if possible, in the meantime, encourage the girls to wear pants to this year's event.

Girls are allowed to wear pants everywhere but the chapel, and I assume these functions are using the rec hall or classrooms. So why should the girls wear pants in order to conform with TSCC "standards"? Let them wear skirts that meet school dress codes.

You don't understand the Mormon mind. They're not trying to control. Secular dress standards give them the heebie jeebies because they honestly believe such things are morally reprehensible. Wearing short shorts in front of them is like clubbing baby seals at a PETA convention.

TSCC uses sexual repression to control and manipulate its members, with often ridiculous results.

Okay, then why do the invite secular activities that include nonmembers into their facility in the first place?

Trying to be good neighbors. The church is trying to mainstream itself to compensate for its weird doctrine.

I had the Mormon mindset drilled into me from birth to adulthood. I believe it is ultimately about trying to control, though I think you're right that they may not see it that way themselves.

You have to hand it to Brigham, he was a true mastermind. Diabolical, really. He should have had a Mini Me.

Honestly I think he, like Joseph before him, just happened to be the con that hit on what the general society was ripe for at the time. They took in a lot of people and we're still feeling the effects today. They certainly conned my ancestors pretty good.

The School District should be notified by concerned parents who resent the intrusion of the mormon church in a school sponsored activity! I wouldn't advise my child to attend if she was offended by the CULT script! This is intolerable infringement by a peanut gallery player! I'd simply ignore the church/advise my daughter to wear school approved attire if she really wants to attend! As Always, tnurg (GRUNT)

Is this a mainstreaming attempt? Used to be church buildings were not allowed to be used for community events - presumably for reasons of liability. I would be tempted to ask the school administration how they would feel about hosting the event at a Scientology or Jehovah's Witness building - as there would be no difference. They are all pseudo-religions/aka cultish orgs that will try any way they can to attract potential converts.

Okay, I know I'm probably overreacting, because I don't think I'd have too much of a problem with this if it was any other organization, but now the hosts are asking for volunteers not only to set up for the event (normal), but cleaning up afterwards (also normal) including mopping floors and cleaning bathrooms (NOT normal!).

I feel a little isolated being probably the only parent who knows that TSCC is using the school event to get out of their assigned cleaning duties. (Actually, the organizers for the event will be cleaning too so they aren't getting out of it, but using non members to help.)

I hope all of the kids, not just girls, show up in sleeveless tops.

Sounds like the church is trying to get at least one free cleaning out of the deal. They probably have to do this because the members aren't showing up to clean.

I can't imagine that non members are going to be ok with cleaning the bathrooms. Maybe they'll stop using the church when they realize how much fun it is to be mormon.

I'm shocked they're letting them use the church. That's usually a big fat no. Church functions only. They wouldn't let us use the church parking lot for a blood drive.

I know- I'm intensely suspicious of this whole thing because I know the building isn't supposed to be used for secular events. I am no longer involved AT ALL with TSCC, so I don't know how they're getting around it. Using an "outreach" as a church event somehow? Are the members here just laid back enough to kind of brush off the rules? I don't know... and I really don't want to ever have a conversation with a local Mormon about the Mormon church so I don't expect to have any insight into how they are justifying it. I just want to keep myself and my family un-involved with TSCC.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of "school event" is this?
What is the reason for doing it in a church instead of on school property?

I don't know why they don't hold this event at the school... unless there are restrictions on food/tables in the gym? I'm just guessing. This particular event has always been held off the school grounds.

Several years ago on this site, someone posted about a free and public Gladys Knight concert held at some stake center. It was supposed to be a missionary event, get the public in there and and more familiar with the Mormons and all that. But the poster told of black couple that were turned away because--despite them being all dressed up for a Gladys Knight performance--the woman's dress did not conform. This is good for missionary work, right? But whose missionary work? Theirs or ours?

Wow!! That is just horrible.

Call me an old fart that thinks teenage "coquettishness" has turned into blatant sexual display, but the some of the dresses I saw at school events when my daughters were in high school a couple years ago looked like they were airbrushed on, and about an inch below their butt cheeks. Granted, most of these girls were dancers and athletes, so they looked great, but I can see the mormons getting a little bent out of shape.

It's kinda funny, that mormons want their young ladies to start popping out kids at a young age, but want to hinder them from being normal young creatures and show their "plumage"....

I have seen some dresses/skirts at this event in past years that would definitely make a Mormon uncomfortable, but that are also well within accepted social norms in the general society for high school students. This is supposed to be a school event, not a church event. Last year I thought they did a pretty good job of hosting a school event at the church. This year, it feels like they are starting to impose church rules on a school event held at the church. Granted, I'm really sensitive about this given my experiences growing up in TSCC.

One of the difficulties here is the definition of "short", lol. When I was forced to attend as a teen, "short" meant anything at or above the knee. If it still means that to Mormons, then a bunch of kids are going to show up in dresses above the knee that they do not consider "short" at all, but that the Mormons will still not approve of.

You need to talk to the school administration, to stop this from happening in the future. They need to know about the Mormon recruitment tactics, and their recent stepped-up attempt to convince the public that they are a mainstream "Christian" religion. Tell the admin. that you refuse to clean their building. Post a petition on the school bulletin board.

It would be worthwhile for YOU to find them another, better, probably less-expensive venue for next year's school program, and suggest it right now. You are right. Mormons recruit and fool people "bit by bit."

It's probably too late for this year's program to be moved, but you can take a very close look at the wording in the announcement. You wrote:

"They are stressing that girls must not wear short skirts or dresses. They used a couple flimsy excuses and seem to have settled on "dress nicely, no short skirts ladies!!"

The above statements don't mention PANTS. Depending on how assertive your daughter and their friends are, they can wear leggings under the short skirts, and tee shirts under the sleeveless tops. I like the idea of bringing your own coffee mug or Starbuck's cup.

If the event is in the gym (the Mormons call it the "cultural hall") there are Mormon guys that play basketball in there, in shorts. The Mormon women don't wear long skirts to clean the bathrooms, either. I think your Mormons are flexing their muscles, deliberately! Mormons love to gain power over others. They have NO RESPECT for other people or their beliefs, and they like to demonstrate this at every other opportunity.

CLEAN THE CHURCH BATHROOMS? That's outrageous!

I was a Mormon all my life, and they were abusive. When I got divorced, they were even more abusive to me and my "broken-home" children, because we had no man to protect us. I won't go into detail, but they did walk into our house, without my permission, to force my children to go to meetings. I caught one Mormon neighbor in my living room, in the act of pushing and picking up and carrying my son out our front door--after my son and I had repeatedly told the man that my son was NOT going to attend YM date-night. My son was crying. When I told the man to leave my son alone, he did not stop, but he argued with me! I said, "You are trespassing. You get out, or I'll call the police." The man left, but he spread rumors with his son and the other boys and the kids at school, that my son was a "mama's boy" and was afraid of girls.

Mormons are people you don't want in your life. You don't want to deal with them. Trust me in this.

We left the Mormon church, because of child abuse.

The next fall, the election voting polls were at the Mormon church building's basketball gym, for the first time. I almost turned around and left the building, it brought back so many horrors. I walked up to the registration table, and the woman there was a Mormon neighbor, and she said, very loudly, "(my name)! We haven't seen you in church for a long time!"

I knew some leaders in the community, from my volunteer work, and I made a strong stand about mixing religion with politics, and that a voting site should never be at any church, political headquarters, or recruitment center. They listened to me! They poll at the local schools, instead.

It's about money, too. Your non-partisan school should not be paying money to, or supporting any religious or political group. Your daughter's school should consider supporting other schools, instead of religious businesses, and have their program at one of them.

Same dress code is at the public middle school in a non-high-Mormon town my granddaughter is in, and in the instructions and invitation for the "continuation" (graduation) ceremony for 8th graders was included specific dress code instructions, including that skirts must be knee length (also boys must wear nice slacks and shirt, and no formal attire please." This school has a strict dress code, and I am glad they do. Raging hormones don't need added incentive to distracts what middle-school kids are in school for!