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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 06:19PM

. . . in the face of negative response from Mormon parents to Goaslind's suggestion, the Mormon Church seemed to hedge somewhat.

On a personal note, I knew Jack Goaslind growing up as a kid (our families lived in the same Salt Lake City neighborhood and would visit at our respective homes now and then). In later years, Jack dropped by my home in Arizona for Sunday lunch after his regionnally-assigned stake conference visit (where he laughed his head off on the living room couch reading Cal Grondhal's irreverent cartoon collections on Mormon life). Jack eventually wrote me a nice, conciliatory note after I left the Mormon Church (in which he expressed his love but claimed he didn't know or understand why I left the Church). Jack died a couple of years ago from a cranial hemorrhage resulting from a fall (see: "Additional Information on the Recent Death of General Authority Emeritus Jack Goaslind," by Steve Benson, on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 18 May 2011, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,195607,195607#msg-195607)
_____


Jack Goaslind, in his position as Mormon Church liaison with the national BSA, in veiled fashion, informed/threatened BSA headquarters that if it dropped its ban against gays, the Mormon Church might disassociate itself from the BSA's national program.

In an article appearing some years ago in the LDS Church-owned "Deseret News," his warning to the BSA was reported as follows:

"Isolated legal challenges to the Scouting program should be vigorously defended against to keep Scouting strong and serving youths as the program was intended, national and state Scouting officials say.

"And an official of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Tuesday he would recommend that the church withdraw from the Boy Scouts of America if the church is forced to register homosexual Scouts or to register those who will not adhere to 'Duty to God' provisions of the Scout Oath and Law. . . . . [The Mormon Church is] the largest sponsoring religious organization in the Boy Scouts . . . .

"Scouting officials say that loss of the church as a Scouting sponsor would have a crippling effect on the program, which nationally has 4.3 million registered boys in Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Exploring and 1.2 million adult volunteers.

"Elder Jack H. Goaslind, a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy, president of the church's Young Men program and a member of the Boy Scouts' National Executive Board, reiterated his position Tuesday that he is not in a position of making final decisions regarding the church's involvement in Scouting. That is the responsibility of the First Presidency, he said.

"But he said he would recommend the church, which adopted the Scouting program three years after Scouting was charted by Congress in 1910, withdraw from the Boy Scouts if it is forced to follow court rulings on the admittance of girls, homosexuals and atheism.

"A few months ago Elder Goaslind represented the church and testified at the request of the Boy Scouts in a Los Angeles area court case involving an openly homosexual man who wants to be a Scoutmaster. And earlier this month, the LDS general authority testified for the Boy Scouts in a Chicago case of a man whose 8-year-old son wants to become a Cub Scout. The father and boy refuse to profess belief in God, as required in the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

"A belief in and reverence for God 'was the basis upon which Scouting was originally organized,' Elder Goaslind said.

"Regarding girls in Boy Scouting, Elder Goaslind said the church has always taken a stand against having women enrolled as participants in Scouting programs for boys. The attorney of an 8-year-old Florida girl has sued the Boy Scouts of America, challenging the Cub Scouts for entry into the all-male organization.

"'We have our own Young Women program. Scouting is a boys' program,' said Elder Goaslind, noting that chartered organizations such as the church were given the option by the Boy Scouts of whether to accept or reject its policy. He said the church's policy is that young women will not be registered in LDS-sponsored Explorer posts.

"Blake Lewis, a national spokesman for the Boy Scouts and an official of Edelman Public Relations Worldwide, told the 'Deseret News' Tuesday that Scouting "would certainly feel the impact if the church for some reason chose not to continue its relationship with the BSA."

"But he and some other officials seem to indicate that the Boy Scouts would survive.

"Lewis said only public schools exceed the church in the number (1,096,425) of youths sponsored. He said the Boy Scouts of America, like the United Way (which helps fund some Scouting councils), is a private organization and has a constitutional right to maintain and establish its policies, including membership standards.

"'People want to make the Boy Scouts out as a public entity. That clearly is not the case," Lewis said, promising that the organization will continue to "vigorously defend the position of Scouting in all the court cases.'

"Earl Armstrong, director of field services for the Great Salt Lake Council, said having the church pull out of the Boy Scouts would have a definite negative effect on the national and local programs.

"The Salt Lake Council will end calendar 1991 with 'about 62,310 youths enrolled, a slight increase over 1990,' he said. The council is surpassed in enrollment numbers only by a New York City council.

"If the LDS Church were to drop out of the Boy Scouts 'we would still have a Scout council. It just wouldn't be as large. We operate under the premise that the courts will rule in our favor,' said Armstrong, who said he is not personally aware of any similar legal challenges affecting the Salt Lake council.

"'Scouting still stands upon the principle that a boy has to take upon himself the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Scouting will never change its values or principles. That I am certain of. If it does, then it is no longer the Boy Scouts of America,' Armstrong said, referring partly to a statement made by Ben H. Love, the organization's chief executive."

("Scouts Advocate Strong Defense," by Douglas D. Palmer, staff writer, "Deseret News," 26 June 1991, at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/169688/SCOUTERS-ADVOCATE-STRONG-DEFENSE.html?pg=all)
_____


The blowback against Jack Goaslind's published anti-gay comments regarding the BSA policy and the LDS Church position apparently had some kind of an effect on the LDS Church leadership.

Here is a Mormon history highlight from two months later, 24 August 1991:

"[The Mormon Church-owned] CHURCH NEWS prints official reassurance of Jack H. Goaslind, Jr. (First Quorum of Seventy member on executive board of Boy Scouts of America) that LDS church is still in BSA: '"Learning for Life" [program for self-identified homosexual scouts] does not affect the use of traditional Scouting as a tool to further the goals of the Aaronic Priesthood. As far as the Church is concerned, we are still totally supportive of the Boy Scouts of America program as we know it.'

"This is in response to distressed inquiries from parents about Goaslind's previously published statements that LDS church 'would withdraw from the Boy Scouts of America' if it permitted membership by self-identified homosexual teenagers. This retraction represents either a reversal of First Presidency decision or repudiation of Goaslind's speaking out of turn.

"[Source: On This Day in Mormon History, http://onthisdayinmormonhistory.blogspot.com]"

("Today in Mormon History: What Happened Today in Mormon History: A Few Daily Snippets," at: http://today-in-church-history.blogspot.com/2011/08/20-years-ago-today-aug-24-1991.html)
_____


Given this history and in light of how--or if--the BSA will modify its present anti-gay policy, where the Mormon Church goes from here is anybody's guess.

After all, the Mormon Church itself has now come out and cautioned against speculation on what it's up to in all of this:

". . . For 100 years, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has enjoyed a strong, rewarding relationship with Boy Scouts of America as both organizations have worked to build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of young men.

"The recent announcement that BSA planned to make a policy change in its standards for membership and leadership has triggered intense debate from many segments of society. We believe BSA has acted wisely in delaying a vote on this policy issue until the implications can be more carefully evaluated.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is carefully assessing the consequences of this policy change on the Church’s program to build and strengthen young men, but it has not commented on it and a decision will not be made until we have assessed all of the implications. We caution others not to speculate about our position or to assume that individual Latter-day Saints inside or outside the Scouting movement speak for the Church. Neither has the Church launched any campaign either to effect or prevent a policy change."

("Church Cautions Against Speculationon Scouting Decision," news release, "Newsroom: the Official News Source for News Media, Opinion Leaders and the Public," Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 February 2013, at: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-cautions-against-speculation-on-scouting-decision)


What's the problem, guys? Elohim first has to consult with your Mormon Church PR firm?



Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2013 01:29AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 06:32PM

Browsing through the old Deseret News on microfilm, I
recall stumbling across a locally produced article that
praised the organized youth movement of Germany. I
think it was from 1937 or 1938.

With the paper now online at Google, etc., maybe somebody
could track down a copy.

At any rate, the LDS writer appeared to think that the
national socialists had come up with just about the
perfect organization for young boys -- lots of camping
outdoors, and gymnastics, and indoctrination sessions.

If the One True Church determines that Baden-Powell was
a pervert, then perhaps the leaders could edge away
from scouting and copy some ideas from the 1930s
Germans. Maybe call the new group the Monson Youth...

UD

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 09:04PM

> ... 'If the Deseret News is careful not to offend Germany,
> and I gather from your statements that it is falling over
> backwards on the attempt, it is my guess that first of all
> the Church is afraid of complete banishment.'...

Interesting.

It would not surprise me, if the LDS Brethren choose to
cite past instances of child molestations within the Scouts,
and then blame the entire phenomenon upon secret gay leaders,
going right back to the very founding of the movement.

Such a condemnation would give the LDS leaders some "cover,"
in pulling out of BSA and setting up their own, parallel
organization -- "Scouts for Christ," or some such group.

I cannot envision their choosing to remain a part of a
BSA that identifies any of its participants as homosexual.
Same goes for the RCC -- but they have their own secret
youth "problems" to whitewash; so I suppose their rhetoric
would differ a bit from what the Mormons might come up with.

UD

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Posted by: exdrymo ( )
Date: May 26, 2013 02:33PM

"Jan 25,1936 - 'Church News' Section photograph of LDS basketball team in Germany giving 'Sieg Heil' salute of Nazi Party."

Wow--
I gotta see this picture.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 09:14PM

What did the LDS church do for youth programs before 1910 when they hooked up with the scouting program?

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 06, 2013 09:16PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 09:20PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 07, 2013 01:05AM


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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 07, 2013 01:08AM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2013 01:08AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 26, 2013 08:38PM


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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: February 07, 2013 12:17PM

Oops



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2013 12:17PM by twojedis.

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Posted by: smithscars ( )
Date: May 26, 2013 08:04AM

I think the boy scouts would be better without the Mormon influence.

The mormons just liked it because it had chants and special handshakes, perfect for conditioning the boys for the temple chants and secret handshakes.

Somebody in mormondumb has got to be able to come up with a new scout system.
They could also come up with a creepy chant like the young women do.

We the sons of Zion
Will hold only iron rods
And not look at
Any naked bods

We will prepare for missions
Each & every day
And never act out on feelings
Even if we are gay

We know Mormon scouting
Is the one true way
And love learning all the new laws
That we get to obey.

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Posted by: cinda ( )
Date: May 11, 2017 07:16PM

Uncle Dale said, in part:

------------------------------------------------

>It would not surprise me, if the LDS Brethren choose to
>cite past instances of child molestations within the Scouts,
>and then blame the entire phenomenon upon secret gay leaders,
>going right back to the very founding of the movement.

Perhaps, and those leaders would be, of course, members of tscc.

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Posted by: scooter ( )
Date: May 12, 2017 12:41AM

I've maintained for over a decade,

I said this on the NewsHour with Ray Suarez in in 2002.

but the point BSA had to decide about the kolobians and their 40 pound tumor in scouting

is it malignant or benign?

when the kolobians went apeshit in 2000 over the Jim Dale case and forced the BSA into taking their right to discriminate against gays

they lost 80% of their funding on the coasts.

And that hurt bigly.

at that point they realized that kolobians were a malignant 40 pound tumor in scouting.

it takes a while to excise the body of a 40 pound tumor, but praise Joe Smith, it's finally done.

as with most things in this country, the future lies on the coasts.

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: May 12, 2017 01:50PM

So where do the LDS scouts go camping? In my last year of Young men, I refused to re-register for scouts. There was already a planed camping trip. When the time came, a small group of us when out to the lake. We then left for home. I thought we where going to do more, so I asked and was told that because I was no longer a scout that we could not have access to the camp grounds. Made sense to, Though I still thought it stupid. So if the church pulls out of the BSA, where will they go camping or other activities which only the BSA own and control. I am sure that the large populations of LDS may have there own land holdings, but most members are rural.

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Posted by: rt ( )
Date: May 12, 2017 02:14PM

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a personal note, I knew Jack Goaslind growing
> up as a kid (our families lived in the same Salt
> Lake City neighborhood and would visit at our
> respective homes now and then).

I picture a freckle-faced little Stevie roaming the neighbourhood looking for boyish mischief...

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