One of the best ways to discredit the church is to expose mormon testimonies for what they are, lies, and false witnesses. During the recent political season, I found that many of the most extreme of political claims, started to make me feel the same way that mormon testimonies make me feel, angry. I examined through my feelings, how this can be and learned something in the process.

Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, or something other, here is how this exercise works. Think of the most outlandish claim that your opposing political party has recently made about a politician that you really admire and believe in. Pick their claims that make you the most angry. Then think about how you feel when you hear a mormon testimony. For me, it's nearly the same feeling. The anger comes from the fact that you don't like being lied to, and dis-respected. You've seen that like illegal drug use, it hurts people, that it isn't fait-promoting at all. And with the mormon testimony, you really know you're being lied to. You've seen parents whisper these lies to their children's ears in fast and testimony meetings, while the child parrots those words back in to the microphone, that he or she at age four or five, "knows" the church is true. If you went on a mission, you know that you've told the same lies yourself when you didn't really "know" anything for sure. Your whole life you've been lied to, and you've told the same lies yourself. It's time to stop the insanity and the disrespect now. But they just kep doing it. It's the lie and the disrespect toward you that goes with it, that causes the anger. It's not Satan that makes you angry when you hear a testimony. You just really don't want to be lied to any more. In a world where mental health correlates to the real truth of the world around you, mormon testimonies are the poison, at best, an opiate.

Does anyone else here feel the same way?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2017 12:32AM by azsteve.

Sort of.

I feel more like...umm...pity when I hear a mormon testimony.
Pity that they don't know the difference between "believe" and "know," that they don't know about the massive evidence showing what they believe (and claim to know) false. Pity that they've been indoctrinated to be idiots and can't break free from it.

While with politics, more often than not I'm sure the person telling the lie is doing it intentionally. That they know it's false, but they're saying it anyway -- usually for personal gain.

So while the reaction can be similar, I most often see a different basis for the "lies." The first is mostly ignorance and indoctrination. The latter is mostly flat-out lying for personal gain.

One of the things that made me lose hope when I was trying to believe that the LDS church was true was how much defenders of the church (AKA apologists) sounded like political spin doctors.

Do you every wonder what the early test-the-monkey meetings were like?

Yea, WAY different.

I NO this church ISN'T TRUE [even] to itself... or it's members.

M@t

I agree with much of what you say about values poopstone, but crediting religion as the author of good values is a bad idea. It is important to promote good values outside of religion. Sometimes religions adopt and promote bad values as well.

Mormon testimonies don’t bother me as I realize they are still under the spell. Mormon testimonies are based on belief and a desire to believe, not evidence. When one actually begins to examine the evidence behind the foundational claims their truth falls apart.

It takes more than a cursory examination of the church's claims along with an unbiased or open mind to discover the truth. People want to believe what their leaders and peers encourage them to believe and critical examination of the dominate narratives is discouraged in both religion and politics.

In politics anyone challenging the dominate narrative put forth by the Associated Press, MSM and intelligence reports is labeled a conspiracy theorist. In religion one who questions and challenges the dominate narrative is labeled an apostate.

Much of the evidence that refutes church claims came from truth bound dissenters or apostates. Those who expose political corruption and deceptions are political dissidents or whistle blowers. Whistle blowers and apostates are quite similar in that both are generally truth bound to exposing lies.

The dominant narrative (most often a lie) is advanced by powerful institutions such as governments and religions that have much to gain or lose i.e. wealth and influence.

Institutions purveyors of bad information are of two types; those with intent to deceive and their believers who fall into formation and dutifully pass it along erroneously believing it to be good. There are deceivers and believers of deceivers - the delusional and the dishonest and they both trouble me. Liers rule over those who believe lies.

The founders of our country built our Democracy/Republic, based on 'natural law', not christian values. This is where the inalienable rights came from. Whether or not others see mormon testimonies the same way I do, it's refreshing to see how much thought everyone has put in to this topic. Perhaps mormon testimonies are more a function of brainwashing than of concious lies being told for personal gain.

One reason this topic is important to me is that the mormon testimony is perhaps the biggest tool of propagation of the religion, than anything else. For someone who would like to see the demise of the church some day, this is significant. I think that a sociopath and a deceived person should be treated differently. But they're both doing the same thing which causes the same damage. How can faith exist when you really "know" something, as opposed to only believing it. But to destroy a person's testimony, seems to destroy their faith too. We all need faith in a better future and other good things thay we strive for and haven't yet obtained. So, how do you attack these testimonies and not harm innocent people? I think that this is where conventional anti-mormonism gets things wrong. If you believe in the church, anti-mormons want to destroy your faith. Though that can be effective at harming the church, that's malitious in most cases. I have people that I care about that claim to have testimonies, but who I care about. Effectively wounding the church is actually easy if you're willing to shock people's sensibilities with the truth. Doing that without damaging other people or attacking their will to survive and flourish is not so easy. Perhaps those with testimonies are more hostages than anything else.

Mormon testimonies drive the church forward. The church harms people eventually, if not sooner. Attacking these testimonies harms both the church and individuals. Not attacking these false testimonies also causes harm. Under all possible scenarios, the church wins unless you're willing to harm the innocent. I was hoping that a political correlation could produce a different result.